ASCAP Music Licensing

Very Cool. Great work

how is it we wound up with 5 different rights organizations with complex complaiance regulations and outrageous fee's???

meanwhile in Canada 2 organizations, easy and cheap yearly fees for the hobbyist and simple compliance,,,

why do we get the shaft in this country with everything from the power levels we are allowed without a license to the licensing even for a hobbyist to the cost of pharmaceuticals and healthcare!!!!!!

Hi Guys: Tim I would like to say thank you for your hard efforts in getting this information done.

Would there any way that you can put the ascap permisson information that you have up on this site in a pdf file for us to download and keep in our records as proof please. 

Thank You Station 8

Like I said here before, this was all hashed out in 2006 between Part 15 broadcasters and the music licensing groups (which is why we have a BMI license).  ASCAP wasn't interested in Part 15 then and they're not now.  There's nothing to see here.  Leave it alone.

Hi Guys: Just so you know!

I never knew about some of the music license information until tim just post it.

So it's good once in awhile to let people know what is happing out in the market do to things could change unexpectedly.

It would also help new commers out by keeping them in the loop as well so they are legal.

Station 8

Carmine5  Please refere me to ANYPLACE on the web or anyplace else where there is any documentation that "Part 15 Broadcasters" and the music licensing groups EVER worked together to make some sort of agreement. If it's out there, it's well hidden as I spent months trying to find ANY information before contacting the PROS. I've been working in commercial broadcast radio for 43 years and am very conscious of all the news and negotiations that happen in reference to radio and music rights. I've seen nothing of this in all the trade magazines nor the publications from ASCAP and BMI. 

Many things have been hashed out between the PROs and licensed broadcast radio, but there was not one word anywhere I could find referring to Part 15.  Please let us in on exactly which Part 15 broadcasters were in on negotiating with the music groups. 

One printed reference, one article, one web site, anything that actually says "Part 15 broadcasters and music groups have reached an agreement". 

It may very well exist. Please. Point me to the doumentation that no license is needed for Part 15 to play music (except for BMI).  I'd also be interested in knowing, then, why it is that ASCAP and SESAC don't require $$ but BMI does.  Certainly this detail would be covered in reports of the meeting between Part 15 broadcastera and the performing rights organizations. I would also be very interested in knowing which Part 15 broadcasters were representing all of us in these negotiations.

I'll be delighted to "leave it alone" when I see the actual information, that apparently has been hidden away from all Part 15 broadcasters. 

I like to be prepared, when the BMI or ASCAP man comes through town, or a jerk at a commercial station who is trying to make trouble, try to finger someone for not having their music licensing squared away, can be derailed by showing proper documentation that all is covered. We all know the music rovers (just like cops) don't have every law ad contract memorized.  Show me the law, rule, agreement, or other evidence that there is an agreement between intentional Part 15 broadcasters (e.g. someone actually trying to broadcast to the general public, as opposed to someone with a Part 15 device in their car to listen to their MP3 player on their FM car radio for example) and BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. 

I would be very happy to print out such information and add it to my station file.  Then we can "leave it alone".

TIB

It could be argued BMI was the only one greedy enough to make a part 15 license, and the only one to hope people would pay for it.

The others likely decided it wasn't worth the time or effort knowing most stations are undocumented and unwilling or unable to pay.

Remember folks, it wasn't until somewhat recently that these companies even knew what the hell part 15 was. Makes one wonder how they figured it out.

Edit: I seem to recall what Carmine is talking about. You likely didn't see it in any radio publications because quite frankley, no one gives a damn about part 15 radio stations in the industry. This could explain ASCAP and others lack of interest.

I seem to recall the licensing was actively sought out by members of the part 15 community years ago, and that is how they came to be aware of part 15 broadcasting at all.. That is probally what Carmine is refering to when he says it was hashed out back in 2006

You might be right on that one RP, I very faintly recall that being the case. Admittedly we have all slept since then. I don't remember it being a very large number of P15 operators either, I want to say at the time many operators were against it initially.

No, it wasn't many actually involved in the quest, and yes there were some against it. I wasn't involved with it particuarly, but never against it either. My stance is although it is an additional expense, it also lends an air of legitabilty to part 15 in the general public eye,.. often those unfamiliar with part 15 consider us pirates.

At least that's the way I look at it.

Whatever the case... I'd like to see something written anywhere "official".  Either way, if this IS the case, nothing has changed. Except that I now have in my posession actual documentation from the three entities involved that I am legally covered.  I think in this world today that having your butt covered in all areas where someone could try to stop or hassle us is the best practice.  Hence certified transmitter, blatantly legal installation, and documentation for the right to play the music.

I treat my station as a business.  Perhaps a hobby business, but a business nonetheless. I'm registered with the state as a business, I have a storefront with large signage on main street, a highway sign, ads in the paper, and a separate bank account for the station. I sell ads.  I air syndicated programming.  I deal with local merchants. I'm on the city cable TV system (my audio, not ME lol). I need to be sure everything is covered and paperwork is in order, just in case.

Perhaps others do not. But either way even without my waiver from SESAC and my recently aquired documentation from ASCAP, if this information above is accurate and is documented someplace, it's means we're all legal anyway (assuming you're paying BMI) but I would still require documentation from a proper source that the music is covered. 

Should a commercial station ever make a fuss and show up one day telling me my music better be licensed or they're calling their rep, I doubt a post from Carmine5 will pass muster. Having actual documentation on hand is a good defense. "Look, here's my contract with BMI, and my documentation from SESAC and ASCAP" is a lot more effective than "a guy on the internet said it was OK".  That's what I've been seeking, and that is what I now have. 

The ASCAP guy did tell me he would see to it that a note gets posted on the low power section of their website for Part 15 stations.  I'll keep an eye on that and see if it happens.

TIB

I've always wondered whether or not a commercial broadcaster would really care about a part 15 AM station. I have a feeling if they do, there are bigger problems they need to deal with before going after the part 15 station.

I can honestly say there isn't a single broadcaster in my area that cares, at all. Heck, half of them are likely hiding violations of their own. (In fact I know this to be true, theres more than a few with some forms of neglect.)

All that being said,

Tim I'm glad you take your station so seriously. I'm sure you put on a wonderful product for your listeners.

i will reiterate this again. Tim is essentially running his station as a business. he has a storefront, a cable access channel, etc. he has advertising.

this is when i agree you pay fees to the rights organizations.

for average joe home hobbyist entertaining his/her neigborhood, is not selling advertising, no store front, etc should not be required to cough up fee's or the fee's should be minimal for hobbyists with a single small yearly fee coveraing all the rights organizations and drop the reporting requirements. for part 15 business operations where advertsising is sold and income generated their should be fee's for over the air and streaming with reporting requirements.

we should not contiually make hobbies in this country that were once doable by anyone with a little inginunity and a will to now only be available to rich who have deep pockets.

I've always wondered whether or not a commercial broadcaster would really care about a part 15 AM station.

I doubt most of them care or even know of their existence.

Isn't the greater majority of the commercial stations just airing simucast of a single source to different areas around the US? but with basically having inserts of local news and program?