Always On Mixer?

I will inquire with my guy who works there at Guitar Center. Shooting off the email now:)

Groo

Again, calling upon my 40 years in the commercial radio biz...

Most of the consumer mixers you find at the music stores are fine running 24 hours.  Personally, we had a Yamaha blue mixer (they come in about two dozen different models) running 24 hours a day in a commercial FM studio for probably 8 or 9 years until we finally replaced it with an actual broadcast console (more on that to come). I have a small Behringer in my office at the station (where I work, not my Part 15) that's been on for at least 8 years, and one of the teeny ones has been running on the news directors desk for at least that long as well.  The key here is you want to be sure you get one where the power supply is NOT part of the board.  e.g. a power cord direct to AC power doesn't plug into it, but one of the ones with a powercord--supply--cord to mixer arrangement.  Most heat is generated in the power supply, and if it's external, it's out of the mixer. That said, the back corner of the Yamahas got pretty warm, but we ran 'em for years.

Now it's my experience that these music store mixers have no place in a radio station, except perhaps in production, or as "utility mixers" (e.g. the newsman uses his to record phone interviews, I used the one in my office to record off the air to edit podcasts, and to audition phonograph records in my office without going to the turntable in the air studio).  A mixer for use ON THE AIR should NOT have ANY sort of eq, effects, pan, or other controls.  Things going on the air (sources) are already eq'ed. And if you're stereo you don't want to be panning, if you're mono it doesn't make any difference.  Plus the they have individual channel faders, plus input level knobs, plus a master out fader.  This gives you THREE different places where levels can get screwed up.  A real broadcast console generally has on/off, sometimes a choice between audition and program for that channel (program is for "on air" and audition can be used for many things -- to record, to feed a different station, stream, etc) and cue (usually to "cue" things for air in a little speaker before it actually goes on the air). And a nice big rotary knob or straight fader for levels. All those other knobs are fine for diddlying around creating something, but not for mixing onto the airwaves. Broadcast boards even today are built like tanks and are very simple to operate and install.  Some even have built in blue-tooth, so one channel automatically connects to, say your cell phone, or iPad to facilitate talking with callers on the air, or skyping on an iPad, etc. on the ari.  The big fancy boards with a gazillion knobs on 'em look impressive but are not needed or desired on the air. I have 40 years on the air to back me up on this.  Those music store mixers were made for just that -- mixing and building music.  People are eq'ing their guitars and keyboards and singing mics, etc.  You do NOT need any of that in an on air feed. 

Personally, I'm quite fond of Arrakis studio boards.  Nothing in "real radio" is cheap.  I think the cheapest Arrakis board is about $800. 8 channels and no BS. We have an Arrakis that's been in our live 24 hour AM studio for 24 years now, it's also used for a ton of voice tracking.  Their units are easy to hook up, easy to repair, and support is very good. I have installed many of them over the years.

As for the "music store mixers" I've a lot of experience with the Yamahas, and I suspect many of the other brands are basically the same thing in different boxes. I have a Yamaha in my home studio that I've used for doing voice overs, video narration, commercial production, and even some music mixing/mastering over the years. I've done over 3,000 voice overs on that sucker with fine results for stations all over the world.  Presently when I go live on my Part 15 I'm on that board too, but I don't like it as an air board, and will be installing the 8 channel Arrakis eventually.  But using the Yamaha for on air is nice because I've a full onslaught of sound wired to it that I use in production work.

Bottom line, most of the store mixers are fine and seem to run forever. Look for external power supplies. They're not right for on-air use, but they work.  A real board is a real treat.

This is what a real, but very basic broadcast console looks like:

http://www.arrakis-systems.com/arrakis---arc-8.html

This is what I just installed at work to replace the Yamaha in a real 100,000 watt commercial Fm station:

http://www.arrakis-systems.com/arrakis---arc-10.html

Although I have to admit, when we installed the Yamaha it was used mostly for production (most of the programming came from satellite) but we moved quickly to being on the air live a LOT more from the studio and trying to do on air work with a mixing/recording board was driving everyone nuts (knobs were getting readjusted that screwed things up) so we put in the real board. 

Real boards generally have built in monitor amps, cue amps, relays for speaker cut off when the mics come on, you can monitor out of the board or off the air or other external source with the push of a button.

You can sometimes fine real broadcast consoles on ebay, problem is most of them have been used up in real life broadcasting and need work before being put into service. 

Get a bswusa.com catalog and see what the real stuff looks like.  Obviously Part 15 isn't the sort of thing that generates the funding for expensive broadcast gear, but I've seen a lot of part 15 setups that had a lot of money spent on things not necessary or desireable when the $$ could have gone into quality real gear instead.  You don't need a lot of equipment to sound good. 

Tim in Bovey Iron Range Country

On the money spent thing: I am finding that a lot of the processing gear I have is not needed, nor does it sound right when placed in the hands of someone who isn't familiar with how it works.  I happen to have a Procaster, which has built in limiting and compression.  When I add a CRL Pre Emphasis device to the chain, it gets whiney in the background.  If I disable the compressor and limiter and use my own, i have no idea what I'm doing - so it sounds like ass.

My chain now goes from the board to a +10db to -4db conversion box from MCM, and to the transmitter.

As a side note: Remember we are part15, and a lot of us don't have the processing, eq, etc on source, and we have to do it either on the way out of the board, or on the board iteself..

I am of the same mind as Tim Iron Ranger, and really dislike having the EQ knobs right out in the open on the mixer where anybody can tinker with them.

If a station has several DJs who use the same board, somebody will start tweaking and leave the controls in the wrong positions, resulting in poor on-air sound or bad recordings. It always happens.

If the EQ knobs are built onto a mixer, at least they should be inside a hidden door or way on the back-side where the operators can't so easily grab them.

I only use or recommend mixers that do not have anything but mixing controls.

That's exactly my point.  If you're runing a CD player into your board, it's already eq'ed to specs, as the band/producer/engineer wanted it to be.  Why would you screw with it? If you're playing vinyl on a respectable turntable with a modern, functional cargridge, with a typical preamp, you're getting what the producers of the record meant for you to hear, why screw with it? If your mic isn't crap, it will be fine, and on down the line.  None of these typical sources really NEED any eq.  EQ on a board is for when you're creating the original music, to make it what you intend it to be, not for someone later to try to put their own spin on it.  If a listener likes more bass, then can turn up the bass on their radio, why try to force your eq tastes on the public when they have their own controls at their disposal. The band and producer already made it the way they'd like you to hear it.  Naturally there are adjustments for taste, room conditions, speaker limitations, etc but these are all on the listeners end. No need to EQ on the broadcast console end.

At the 100,000 watt FM where I work every day, we run everything straight into an Arrakis mixer.  Straight from the source, to the mixer, to the air.  This includes cd players, mic (a Shure SM58) computer output, feeds from various satellite networks (ABC News, Minnesota Vikings network, etc) and none of it needs any EQ. Our transmitter processing chain is very minimal, mostly level control in the form of limiting too loud audio to prevent overdriving.  Same with our AM station.  There's an EQ at the transmitter before things go in, but that's it.  We meet NRSC standards, and prevent overmodulation, and that's it.  Every source comes straight into and out of the board, including multiple (and different) mics, CD, turntable, 8 different networks, two other studios, etc.  At the broadcast ready stage, any eq should be applied by the listener to their taste.

If you're working on bad audio -- like you're dubbing some vintage 78 rpm records, you will want to try to clean them up with some eq, kill the hiss in an old tape, etc, the these are things you should do when creating the final product that goes on the air. 

I to am runing a Procaster. I'm runing straight audio right out of my iMac into the interface/audio box that came with the transmitter.  I find the sound to be wonderful and have no desire to add any sort of processing to it.  When I go "live" my live board feeds into a little mixer that acts more as a connection device than anything else, into the mic input of the imac.  I hit the "mic" switch in my software, and whatever I feed into the mac is on the air, and sounding great.  The little "submixer" has a mic, and a feed from the other board, so if I'm just working off music and spots in the imac used for broadcasting, I don't need the "big board" and I just use the mic,  but if I want to go live and use records, CD's, cassettes, internet, phone feeds, or whatever I just fade up the external board input and go to town. The "big board" has it's own mic. 

Sometimes the tendency is to add a lot of extra stuff, often because one thinks they need it, or because they think it's "neat" or because someone told them they need it, or because they got it free or cheap.  Rarely is it needed.  My motto over the years has been to simplify. Less gear, less work, less options, means less chance for something to turn to crap on you. 

you really don't need to try to eq anything on AM anyway, the bandwidth is so limited you're losing bass and treble and no matter how much you dial in, it won't be there on the receiving end, because your bass goes below the frequency response available in an AM receiver. Same with the high end. You'll just wind up overmodulating and making mush. Keep it clear, clean, and easy to understand.  Especially critical with our flea power signals.  Put the cleanest, clearest audio out there that you can to help it cut through the static and interference.

I'm completely loving the Procaster, BTW. 

Tim in Bovey

Iron Range Country

yeah.. i dig the procaster.

Since I am the only one using the console right now, I guess the eq thing is sort of moot.  

I was really looking for tech insight as to what a good always-on big box store moxer would be.  Given that I am not a pro-radio-engineer, and most of the part 15ers I know of aren't, being able to pick the right thing that is accessable easily, and does not require an engineer to repair when it breaks (I can take my mackie, yamaha, or behringer back to the store with the extended warranties).  

If I had an rca pro console  and it broke, i'd be screwed.  I am thinking of just OTC normal everyday consumer gear.

I think most of the music store mixers are OK. As I mentioned we've had both yamaha and Behringers in constant "on" use for years with no troubles whatsoever. If you don't twist the knobs off and don't spill coffee, pop or ??? into them they prove to be very durable. I believe when you get right down to it the circutry and components in these mixers are very similar and if you stick with any of the brand nanes you should be fine. 

The broadcast boards do come with warranties of course, it's just not handy when you have to ship them out if you (or your engineer) can't fix it!

My guess would be that part 15 use would cause far less wear and tear on the units than being used for music mixing and production, which is what they are meant for.  the two things I missed most trying to use a production board as an air mixer is no built in cue curcuit and speaker, and no speaker muting when the mic is turned on. 

Tim in Bovey

Iron Range Country

I'm probably correct to say that an "always on" mixer is a hardware device, and a mixer that is "not always on" would be software.

Is there more to it?

I have a Behringer 802 and a FX1204. The first one is "ON" 24/7 since late 2009, just changed the AC adapter 18 monthes ago.