I don't know either why the phase is reversed on the output section, but if there is a reason you'd think they'd explain it in the manual.
I don't know either why the phase is reversed on the output section, but if there is a reason you'd think they'd explain it in the manual.
But they don't.
I tried researching under what conditions a reverse-phase output would be specifically desirable.. but I really couldn't make much sense of what I was reading. But it seems it's somehow useful in overlaying tracks in recordings.. and also something about compensating for long cable runs..
I dunno.
I did find another post of someone expressing confusion involving the reverse-phase INSERT on a Yamaha mixer (evidently all Yamaha mixers have at least 1 reverse-phase insert), and there was the following response which indicates to me that it would not work with my chain if I returned the exciter to the mixer and then sent it on to the rest of the chain..
Basically, you can either record with the signals from the group and main outs, OR you can take the signals from the inserts. If you use them together, the inserts will be out of phase with the group/main outputs.
http://homerecording.com/bbs/equipment-forums/other-equipment-reviews/mixer-question-yamaha-mg-16-4-reverse-phase-inserts-148781/
However, someone else said:
You cannot simply reverse the phase of an unbalanced connection... you will just be shorting the signal to ground. However, if you have a balanced input on your recorder, you can make a cable that is wired as following: connect the + (of the unbal signal) to pin 3 (bal. input), and the ground (of the unbal signal) to pin 2 (bal input)That would effectively reverse the phase.
So perhaps using that method, I could then utilize Kens suggestion?
Admittedly, my comprehension of this is all so vague.. but I would like to quote one more comment I came across having to do with mixing balanced and unbalanced gear:
Conversely, an UNbalanced output is not push / pull, and the information is only on one of the wires, referenced to ground on the other. You can connect it directly to any input, even a balanced one. No matter that all your signal is on one leg - the addition of the two legs (signal and nothing) will still yeild the complete signal.
That sound to me to be say to just go ahead and connect the unbalanced directly to the balanced gear and it will be fine..?
And I've actually heard comments like this before which emphasized that short cable runs would not suffer any noticeable effect from this.
But then again.. more often I hear it would be a bad idea
..and the Rangemaster does require a balanced input.
I'm just expressing the thoughts floating around my head based on others opinions on the matter.. I've not been able to grasp any clear understanding on what route will properly work.
I hope this post isn't complete nonsense
The thing is, the various mfr's of gear all want their proprietary stuff to become the 'new standard', so you end up with quirky equipment, especially in the lowend market, plus, you're rarely dead sure of which end of the connections to which ratings apply. They have thus contributed to the confusion of referencing I/O impedance, which is of more concern than bal/unbal connections, unless you're talking about long runs or around wiring and/or equipent that can be emitting EMI/RFI.
I have the big Yamaha book, "Sound Reinforcement Handbook", which, BTW, is a 'standard', and hasn't anything especially relevant to Yamaha-only gear ... it's very generic. Even though it says 'Reinforcement', it also includes a great deal about audio recording (relative of broadcasting); includes just about everything there is to know about how various pieces of audio gear hook together, matching input/output impedances, balanced/unbalanced lines, lots of diagrams ... it's a great book. IMO, no studio should be without it on hand. If I really need to know about something involving audio signals, it's my first choice. It's getting worn.
For example, in it, (pp 87-88 for those who may have a copy available) you'll find a section on ambiguities of source vs. load impedances. What we can say is that load impedance is almost always at least several times that of source impedance. So if you see a high Z rating, something over, say, 1400 ohms, it's more likely to represent load rather than source, regardless of how it reads in a manual where only one end is rated.
In the end, you might need to find out some things on your own, take measurements, write to mfr's, etc. BTW, concerning the phase-reversed insert, I haven't received an answer from Yamaha so far.
That said, my opinion is that the phase-reversed Insert will not have a detrimental effect on the hook-up we're considering, but rather only on outbound-only signals going to other gear, e.g., using only the output portion of the insert to go to a separate P.A. system, or something like that, which I doubt you would want to do anyway.
The only application I know of where one mic input channel would need to be reverse phased would be to create a mid-side microphone matrix to produce stereo from a special mid-side microphone.
But, come to think of it, if the mid-side signals are recorded without matrixing, then they would need to be matrixed during the playback/mixing session, and the reason for it is to allow controlling the stereo width and depth during mixing rather than in the beginning during recording.
To understand this further watch for any technical discussions of "mid-side sound" or "stereo microphone."
Thank you Carl for the matrix mid-side width and depth stereo mixing control information.. Now my confusion is unbalanced and reverse-phased. 🙂
OK.. this is what I'm doing..
I just ordered an insert cable, and a couple 1/4 to rca adapters, and I'll either:
1. Follow Kens advice by connecting the exciter to the mixers insert and return jacks and will see if it will jive with the reverse-phase conundrum.
OR
2. I'll feed the exciter from the mixers REC OUT, and then exit the exciter with the RDL audio combiner/balancer directly into the rest of the air chain without returning to the mixer
.
One of these methods (hopefully) should prove successful in having a balanced airchain output.