@rugster Yes, I realize the information is "out there", but I was being lazy and hoping I could get it all explained here on the forum.
I'm not in a rush to know so I'll study it later on.
@carl-blare Sorry Carl. I hope that didn't sound rude. I like to be helpful, and I wanted to explain it all, but it was a lot of writing and I wasn't feeling up to it!
@rugster Couple things to address here, but let's start with GMRS. I knew there to be a part 15 option, ... Evidently I was wrong, but I had no idea the rules had undergone several revisions in 2017, 2019 and 2021.
To cut to the chase, it appears it wasn't until 2019, that the part 15 option of GMRS was abolished.
§ 95.1791 Sales of GMRS/FRS combination radios prohibited.
(a) Effective September 30, 2019, no person shall be permitted to manufacture or import, sell or offer for sale any radio equipment capable of operating under both this subpart (GMRS) and subpart B (FRS) of this chapter.
@richpowers Rich - FRS doesn't operate under Part 15. FRS is not Part 15. It never was. It's Part 95 Subpart B.
@rugster I don't know, I just know it required no licence so guess I presumed. I never took more than a rudimentary look at it so far as rules go, but I have used it for years. Nothing consistent, but it comes in very handy, like being able to radio in for a drawbridge to open or just basic communications.
Thanks for the correction. Also, I kind of forgot about MURS, don't think I've ever used that.
I'll get back to my comment about TIS/part 15 later. The short answer is that Part 15 is an official option for a TIS/HAR station (a topic I actually know more about).
Incidentally, it would be interesting to compare the rules of FRS with the part 15 rules applying to those same frequencies.. Seems strange to have two unlicensed options for the same frequency, no?
@carl-blare If your interested, here's a heavily truncated version of the GMRS rules. I started picking through it once I realized it neccessary to read it.. This is just the way (while researching) I whittle documents down to draw out key points or oddities...
Subpart E—General Mobile Radio Service
§ 95.1701 Scope.
This subpart contains rules that apply only to the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS).
§ 95.1703 Definitions, GMRS.
General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS). A mobile two-way voice communication service, with ..family members, including, .. during emergencies and natural disasters.
Grandfathered GMRS license. A GMRS license held by a non-individual person (i.e., a partnership, corporation, association or governmental unit) as a result of renewals of a GMRS license issued prior to July 31, 1987.
§ 95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.
A valid individual license is required to operate a GMRS station. .....
(c) Individuals who may operate a GMRS station. ..under .. an individual license...
(2) Any individual ..may allow .. immediate family to operate his or her GMRS station or stations...
(3) .. may allow anyone to .. communicate an emergency...
(4) Any .. grandfathered GMRS license may allow individuals ...
.....
(e) Individual license term. Each individual license in the GMRS will normally have a term of ten years from the date of grant or renewal, ...
(f) Cooperative use of GMRS stations. GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, ...
(3) A station may be shared only:
(i) Without charge;..
(ii) On a non-profit basis, ...; or
(iii) On a reciprocal basis,...
.......
(g) Limitations on grandfathered GMRS licenses. GMRS licenses that were issued prior to July 31, 1987 authorized GMRS station operation at specified locations, on specified channels, and with specified antenna height and transmitter power. ... The FCC does not accept applications to modify, assign, or transfer grandfathered GMRS licenses..
§ 95.1731 Permissible GMRS uses.
The operator of a GMRS station may use that station for two-way plain language voice communications ..concerning personal or business activities. ..Emergency communications. ....:
§ 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses.
(a) ..., GMRS stations must not communicate:
(3) Coded messages or messages with hidden meanings (“10 codes” are permissible);
(4) Music, whistling, sound effects or material to amuse or entertain;
(5) Advertisements or offers for the sale of goods or services;
(6) Advertisements for a political candidate ...
(10) Continuous or uninterrupted transmissions, ... and
(11) Messages for public address systems....
§ 95.1743 Minor GMRS operators.
Operators under the age of 18 will not be held personally responsible, ..The holder of the individual license ..is solely responsible for any improper operation that occurs ...
§ 95.1745 GMRS remote control.
Notwithstanding the prohibition in § 95.345, GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations may be operated by remote control.
§ 95.1747 GMRS automatic control.
Notwithstanding the prohibition in § 95.347, GMRS repeater stations may be operated by automatic control.
§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.
Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited,...
§ 95.1751 GMRS station identification.
Each GMRS station must be identified by transmission of its FCC-assigned call sign ..
(b) The call sign must be transmitted using voice in the English language or international Morse code telegraphy using an audible tone.
§ 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification.
(a) Each GMRS transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate in the GMRS) must be certified in accordance with this subpart and part 2 of this chapter...
(c) ..No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. ....
(d) Effective December 27, 2017, the Commission will no longer issue a grant of equipment authorization for hand-held portable unit transmitter types under both this subpart (GMRS) and subpart B of this part (FRS).
(e) Effective December 27, 2017, the Commission will no longer issue a grant of equipment authorization under this subpart (GMRS) for hand-held portable units if such units meet the requirements to be certified under subpart B of this part (FRS).
§ 95.1763 GMRS channels.
The GMRS is allotted 30 channels—16 main channels and 14 interstitial channels. GMRS stations may transmit on any of the channels as indicated below.
(a) 462 MHz main channels. ..462.5500, 462.5750, 462.6000, 462.6250, 462.6500, 462.6750, 462.7000, and 462.7250 MHz.
(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. .. 462.5625, 462.5875, 462.6125, 462.6375, 462.6625, 462.6875, and 462.7125 MHz.
(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels... only when communicating through a repeater station ..: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.
(d) 467 MHz interstitial channels. Only hand-held portable units may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5625, 467.5875, 467.6125, 467.6375, 467.6625, 467.6875, and 467.7125 MHz.
[82 FR 41104, Aug. 29, 2017, as amended at 86 FR 53565, Sept. 28, 2021]
§ 95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.
This section contains transmitting power limits for GMRS stations. ..
(a) 462/467 MHz main channels. ... must be capable of operating within the allowable power range. ..
(1) The transmitter output power of mobile, repeater and base stations must not exceed 50 Watts.
(2) The transmitter output power of fixed stations must not exceed 15 Watts.
(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of mobile, hand-held portable and base stations transmitting on the 462 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 5 Watts.
(c) 467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt.
§ ...
§ 95.1787 GMRS additional requirements.
Each hand-held portable unit transmitter type submitted for certification under this subpart is subject to the rules in this section.
(a) Digital data transmissions. GMRS hand-held portable units that have the capability to transmit digital data must be designed to meet the following requirements.
(1) Digital data transmissions may contain location information, or requesting location information from one or more other GMRS or FRS units, ....
(5) GMRS units must not be capable of transmitting digital data on the 467 MHz main channels.
(b) [Reserved]
[82 FR 41104, Aug. 29, 2017, as amended at 86 FR 53565, Sept. 28, 2021]
§ 95.1789 [Reserved]
§ 95.1791 Sales of GMRS/FRS combination radios prohibited.
(a) Effective September 30, 2019, no person shall be permitted to manufacture or import, sell or offer for sale any radio equipment capable of operating under both this subpart (GMRS) and subpart B (FRS) of this chapter.
§§ 95.1793-95.1899 [Reserved]
Incidentally, it would be interesting to compare the rules of FRS with the part 15 rules applying to those same frequencies.. Seems strange to have two unlicensed options for the same frequency, no?
There are general limits on the field strengths of radiated emissions for all parts of the RF spectrum, under Part 15 rules. These general (very low) limits are necessary, as many electronic devices radiate RF in many different parts of the spectrum. Radio receivers, anything with a microprocessor in it, switching power supplies (wall wart AC adapters) - they all generate RF. For the part of the spectrum that FRS is a part of, the allowed limit under these general rules, is 200 microvolts/meter, measured 3 meters from the antenna. This is a low field strength. When it was decided to create the Family Radio Service, it would have been necessary to publish a less stringent requirement for those frequencies or band of frequencies only, so that people can actually communicate with their walkie talkies over a usable distance.
All this seems very logical to me.
@rugster That all seems very logical to me too. All I said was it would be interesting to compare the FRS unlicensed rules with the Part 15 unlicensed rules for the 462 to 467 MHz frequencies.
But for the moment, there's this from the FRS rules which seems to indicate part 15 use under FRS:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95
§ 95.587 FRS additional requirements.
(e) Effective September 30, 2019, no person shall manufacture or import hand-held portable radio equipment capable of operating under this subpart (FRS) and other licensed or licensed-by-rule services in this chapter (part 15 unlicensed equipment authorizations are permitted if consistent with part 15 rules).
[82 FR 41104, Aug. 29, 2017, as amended at 86 FR 53565, Sept. 28, 2021]
@rugster That all seems very logical to me too. All I said was it would be interesting to compare the FRS unlicensed rules with the Part 15 unlicensed rules for the 462 to 467 MHz frequencies.
But for the moment, there's this from the FRS rules which seems to indicate part 15 use under FRS:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95§ 95.587 FRS additional requirements.
(e) Effective September 30, 2019, no person shall manufacture or import hand-held portable radio equipment capable of operating under this subpart (FRS) and other licensed or licensed-by-rule services in this chapter (part 15 unlicensed equipment authorizations are permitted if consistent with part 15 rules).
[82 FR 41104, Aug. 29, 2017, as amended at 86 FR 53565, Sept. 28, 2021]
Well, part 15 operation is allowed over the entire RF spectrum. It's just that the specific regulations varies depending on the slice of spectrum in question. In addition, some bands are subject to multiple part 15 regulations. I mean, the line -
(part 15 unlicensed equipment authorizations are permitted if consistent with part 15 rules).
- can be applied anywhere in the spectrum. As for the Part 15 rules that apply on the FRS channels in the 462 and 467MHz range, an intentional radiator is allowed, as long as the field strength, as measured 3 meters from the antenna, is less than 200 microvolts/meter, per 15.209 -
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.209
By comparison, the Part 15 allowance on the FM broadcast band is 250 microvolts/meter at 3 meters from the antenna. On the FM band, this allows for a range of no more than about 200 feet maximum, so the maximum achievable range on the FRS channels under Part 15 is probably a little less, maybe 100-150 feet max (50 feet under real conditions, with the kind of receiver a cheap walkie talkie would have). I suppose it's possible that some really simple toy walkie talkies could operate like that. After all, 50 feet of wireless communication when you're a kid is enough to convince you that you're Dan Dare!*
(* Sorry - he's a British comic book character from the 50's and 60's. I couldn't think of an American equivalent in the moment. I didn't grow up here!)
I am curious about how the various walkie-talkie services compare to one another. For example how are any of them different from Citizens Band (CB) which is kind of a walkie-talkie medium.
CB in some locations is blighted by abusers using unauthorized power levels and/or transmitting inappropriate content. What keeps the same thing from happening on the other walkie-talkie categories?
@carl-blare As far as I know, the 27MHz Citizens Band is the original "legacy" walkie talkie band. I'm making this post mainly from my very flawed understanding and memory, but here's some of what I know, off the top of my head.
The 27MHz CB band, although nowhere near as popular as it was in the 70's and 80's, is still used by some. Some truckers still use it. It's almost like stepping back in time when going into a truck stop and seeing the impressive displays of shiny new CB rigs and accessories! As well as it's "outlaw trucker" appeal, the 27MHz band has the extra attraction over the other bands, in that long distance contacts (DX) are possible when sunspots are high. I think that the FCC rules prohibit such DX contacts, but no-one follows the rules.
MURS, FRS, and GMRS all operate at VHF and UHF, where worldwide propagation doesn't happen. Some long distance propagation can occasionally happen, but it's not generally a thing, and it's not worldwide in the way that 11 meter (27MHz) propagation is. These 3 bands are all good for short distance, reliable communication. GMRS, in particular, is better at this than CB ever was. GMRS allows the use of higher power (up to 50 watts on the 16 main channels), base stations, and detachable antennas. GMRS also allows the use of repeater stations, which considerably increase the coverage area of even a small walkie talkie. Unlike CB, MURS, and FRS, GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) does require a license, but there's no test to pass. All you have to do is pay a $35 license fee for 10 years, and you're issued a callsign. Easy! A GMRS license covers all the people in your household, which is a bonus.
From what I've read, a lot of people buy GMRS radios and use them without a license. They're popular with the off-roading crowd, who need to communicate with each other in areas where cell service is sparce or non-existent. If they don't have licenses, then I doubt that they're causing a bother to anyone else in the remote areas they're operating. If all you have to do to qualify, is give the FCC $35, it's a bit of a moot point whether you have a license or not, IMHO. You are supposed to give your callsign when operating but once again, whose going to police that? Not the FCC, except in the most egregious cases.
I think that GMRS used to be limited to business use but was later expanded to include anyone with $35 who wanted to use it.
As for what keeps the bands other than CB suffering blatant abuse, I think the main reason is the culture that has grown up around CB. Not that poor operating doesn't happen on the other bands, but I don't think it's as ingrained as it is on 27MHz CB.
@rugster Very good overview, Rugster, giving a picture of what these various walk-talk bands are all about.
Somewhere I have a small hand-sized communications receiver and I'll monitor some of the frequencies to learn what kind of traffic is going on close to home.
I was thinking about setting up a CB station and encouraging neighbors to do the same for security purposes, but probably the VHF choices might be better.
@carl-blare Yes, for short and medium distance communications, GMRS is the way to go. That Baofeng radio that @Richpowers posted, while most likely not the greatest in terms of build quality and receiver performance, looks to be great value for money. At around $25 per unit, it's not hard to justify the purchase.
Now I'm getting very tempted to buy a pair and program them for one of the local GMRS repeaters, to test out range with a friend. Thanks for bringing the subject up Rich!
It would be some fun to set up and host a GMRS repeater right here in the building. I will pay a look at the FCC rules for doing it.