There's a certain school of thought in advertising and promotion that says, "Know your audience."
Well, a neighbor is, in a sense, "an audience," and neighbors are not going to know about "part 15."
But neighbors have heard of "radio hobbyists", so if you want to talkk to them about your broadcast activities, the smart answer is, "Yes, I'm a radio hobbyist."
That should be enough, but if they ask more, like, "Oh, are you a HAM?"
The honest but evasive answer is, "Sort of."
Point is, we build on what neighbors (the audience) know, and not what they don't know.
Having worked in advertising agencies and religious organizations one learns how to spin without sin.
Since you don't have an empty frequency other than 87.9 (which clearly is not legal) I'd welcome you to try Album Rock on AM. Then you can tell me what people do. Will they simply say No way will I listen? Of will they listen anyway because they liked what you played as compared with what plays in your area on the Radio on FM. You can argue that AM gives more range with less hassle and the fact that 87.9 was not legal and you didn't know this. Maybe some folks will listen and give you support. You could try using talking house AM transmitters and stringing the wire outside or the iAM which is the same. The reason I don't do it is that I have a blank frequency (just have to check during temperature inversions). So that said I'd like to see you go back on air. You may only need one Talking House AM Transmitter or iAM transmitter. And if the AM petition goes through for a longer antenna you can add more wire. If they ever go unlimited I'd add 100-20 feet of wire to it and call it a day. I'd probably would go 2-3 miles that way. Maybe iAM will come up with a Stereo AM transmitter that is certified.
I believe Rich has mentioned the frustrating fact that the legal field strength for FM is so small that it can't actually be measured by the proper meter.
The Potomac Industries FIM-71 was designed to measure VHF fields, and has a measuring range of 1 µV/m to 10 V/m. So it had no problem measuring a field compliant with §15.239, and less. But its manufacture has been discontinued.
I think the FCC uses other instrumentation, anyway.
Mr. Bruce Said: I personally know people who went to Walmart and bought a mini transmitter that hooks up to their Ipod and sends a signal to their car FM radio. Years ago people bought cassettes that you'd pop into your cassette deck and plug the included wire into your Ipod, those required NO RF. But, now that those mini FM transmitters are available, people are also using those devices.
I said: A couple of years ago I bought one from the local Wal-Mart that operated on 87.9 and was certifed. I wish I had written the certification number on it.
In post number 64 Rich said:
The Potomac Industries FIM-71 was designed to measure VHF fields
Okay, not mentioning any names, but I purely seen someone who was referring to an FM pirate he located "I didn't think of bringing the Potomac FIM41 field intensity meter along....."
I seen another quote being made towards me over at The Virtual Engineer forum where I was told to get a true idea what my Ramsey FM100 was putting out I needed a piece of equipment called the FIM41. In fact a picture of the FIM41 was added to that topic for clarity of what the device looked like.
Now unless someone goofed and thought the Ramsey FM100 was an AM transmitter, I can understand that mistake, however, that other person who also participated in that topic knows what the FM100 is and mentioned the use of the FIM41 first and it went on from there.
What can I tell you? My field was electronics repair, not engineer. I used frequency counters, oscilloscopes, meters and signal generators. Repaired CB radios etc. but never needed a field intensity meter of that type. So I only know what those smarter then me teach me unfortunately and at 56 years old, I'm not about to go back and take a new course in electronics. Besides guys, I see no point in learning about an expensive piece of equipment like those units. And what? You need one for FM and a different one for AM? At those prices, it sounds like a down payment on a new home. Just kidding!
Bruce.
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Druid Hills wrote: "A couple of years ago I bought one from the local Wal-Mart that operated on 87.9 and was certifed. I wish I had written the certification number on it."
Mr. Hills did not say whether the Walmart transmitter was a Scosche, but mine were, and I'll print some specifications for you.
Scosche FMT4R Transmitters were hanging in their plastic pack on a pegboard on the wall at Walmart, marked $10 each. I bought one.
When I realized how useful it could be I went back and got a few more.
Certification: FCC RLQAT100
There was an FCC on-line data page for that Certification # which I linked on my website, but now it is a dead link.
The 14 frequencies selectable by DIP switches are: 87.7, 87.9, 88.1, 88.3, 88.5, 88.7, 88.9, 106.7, 106.9, 107.1, 107.3, 107.5, 107.7, 107.9 MHz.
The RF output is coupled to the shield of the 6" audio cable. I modified one of the transmitters by disconnecting the RF output from the audio shield and attached an exclusive antenna wire. Using my spectrum analyzer and comparing the field-strength of the Scosche to that of a certified C.Crane, I am able to adjust the Scosche antenna length to comply with 15.239.
Presently I use a Scosche at 89.9 MHz to transmit vinyll records into another room for digital capture.
Presently it uses 2x AAA batteries, but I will be adding a variable power supply, which may also play a roll in setting the output strength.
So is the FCC thinking two categories of FM transmitters for certification? And since they believe these car Transmitter are such low power that it does not matter the fact that you can transmit on 87. 9? Remember certification is three fourths of the law. I can't imagine someone buying this Transmitter from Walmart and getting a NOUO for transmitting on 87.9 megahertz. See this is the problem. If the FCC's certification is not written in stone then what the heck do we need an FCC for? There are too many double standards in their rules for part 15. That was what I'm trying to say not everything is written in the part 15 rule Bible. 1 minute someone gets a citation for transmitting on 87.9 megahertz and it is and that it is not legal under any power that and next you have a certified Transmitter in which blatantly transmits on 87.9 megahertz. So it sounds like to me that the same rules do not fit for all. If that is the case then they are not doing their job as spectrum management. I can see why some law makers are stripping funding to the FCC. Plus those part 15 rules to the best of my understanding are somewhat outdated. Reason for so is that certification. Technology changes as the years go on. Their problem is that they are not keeping up with the new technology. If channel 6 wasn't used during let's say 2012 now they're planning on using it again it would explain why now they are no longer certified. But that would give them no license to be a turncoat on the subject. Because they should have thought well before acting. That is their screw up. The problem here is that lawmakers are not held accountable enough for their actions. So then to why should they expect a operator of a certified Transmitter to act differently then the certification and what it was designed for? This is something of interest and an accident waiting to happen.
What does it mean? -- "Remember certification is three fourths of the law."
Maybe it means that for every certified transmitter one-fourth of the transmitter isn't certified?
Thelegacy said:
See this is the problem. If the FCC's certification is not written in stone then what the heck do we need an FCC for? There are too many double standards in their rules for part 15. That was what I'm trying to say not everything is written in the part 15 rule Bible. 1 minute someone gets a citation for transmitting on 87.9 megahertz and it is and that it is not legal under any power that and next you have a certified Transmitter in which blatantly transmits on 87.9 megahertz.
Bravo...bravo!!! I can't not agree with you more!!
And we used 87.9MHz on the Decade MS100 certified transmitter for WXTZ. You now see my point. I guess this is a case of you can own a car, but you can't drive your car past the posted speed limit without getting an NOUO.
Bruce.
Now your really going to get me on a wild tangent here. My Dad was stopped when the speed limit sign was not posted and it dropped from 70 miles per hour to 55. The cop pulled him over. The cop asked my did if he knew how fast he was going? Dad said 70 miles per hour sir. The cop wrote him a ticket for going 25 miles over the speed limit. Well he fought and won the case as the sign that was supposed to tell you of te change was not there. So too the FCC is playing the same damn game when they certify a transmitter and then hand over to you a citation because you operated on what the transmitter was designed for on your choice of frequencies in which 87.9 was the blank frequency of your choice. Now lets bring up the SainSonic AX-05B again. The manual says on High Power you can reach a quarter mile. The transmitter is certified to oporate from 88.1-107.9 Mhz or 76-108 but too the manual DOES STATE your CERTIFIED for 88.1-107.9. It talks about if you only want to go a few feet use low power. But again the box and manual says in Bold print Barrier-Free Broadcast Distance of 1,300 Feet. OK the speed limit has been set here in STONE 1,300 feet as again I'm looking right at the very box of this transmitter. The FCC expects YOU to obey the distance limit if you will but gives you no way to measure that strength. So again double standard as hell. It can be fought in a court of law. If Judge Judy were to try the FCC in court she would ask “were YOU the ones who certified the SainSonic AX-05B Transmitter?” FCC answers “Yes we did your honor!” Judge: And does the box clearly say barrier-free broadcasting up to 1,300 feet?” FCC: “Well yes it sure does!” Judge: “Again you certified this transmitter in your labs and this is the correct FCC ID#?” FCC: “Yes but the rules of part 15:239 says 250 uV/m @ 3 meters!” Judge: “Ah Ah Ah YOU CERTIFIED THIS TRANSMITTER AGAIN SIR I ASKED YOU TWICE” FCC: “Yes your honor I did but...” Judge: “By certification anything else is null and oid because you not SainSonic and Not the operator gave the ok so I rule in favor of the defendant case dismissed!” then you hear ALL RISE...
Double standard will most certainly never be tolerated in a court of law in fact the judge would crush anyone who would even attempt that mess. So again the rules change for the operators of that certified transmitter. Now I'm sure that will shed some light on any anti-FM troll waiting to bust folks for owning and operating a SainSonic AX-05B. You can fool some of the people all the time, but not all the people. I don't need a PHD to figure out what is totoal injustice and what is justice.
In past threads I've tried to explain what FCC "certification" actually amounts to; that is, what it means and what it doesn't mean.
Now I think the old chronic misunderstanding has returned and we're talking about definitions of "certification" that are projected from active fantasy imaginations and have little resemblance to what "certification" actually is.
Maybe some quiet evening I'll give the explanation another try.
Or, even better, maybe someone else would like to do the honors.
All I know Carl is that on applications you “Certify” that your telling the truth. I “Certify” to the best of my knowledge. Its pretty much black and white. Doesn't matter to me this or that page on a rule book. Once the device is “Certified: after the rules were written it nullifies what was written before and gives validity to the new “Certification”. Do you think Walmart shoppers or someone buying a Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0 is going to question its legality after its available with the certification clearly and blatantly marked on the package? Is it our job be keep second guessing officials? I mean God knows they don't always do their job, but hey there is a need which is an FM Transmitter. The consumer sees it and sees hey its certified its legal it looks made well hey I'm gonna try it. There is no intention of breaking any laws here indeed. If that were the intent why not just buy an export or a 50 watt transmitter. It just something that makes no sense to anyone's imagination except for maybe a few engineers or maybe an extra class Ham operator and the way things are written and if you have the time to decipher the critic if than that no its not what this means way of thinking than hey give up the hobby already it will never jump out and say “Carl this is what we mean!” Again by definition certification gives you the athorization to possess, operate, own, use. If that is not what the FCC intended well then they should not throw words around blindly. I also believe its the intent and the end result. The NAB is gonna complain about any transmitter they hear on FM they are gonna want this and that. But sorry the certification blocks their attempts. Its why we have these laws to protect the twisting of what certification is. Even the FCC rules say if your going to sell a transmitter you need to get certification. If its a nonsense throw around word why certify it to begin with? Common sense is the rule of the wise.
The super rain the other night washed my driveway rocks out to sea, so I've been down with a hoe pulling the rocks into piles and using a coal shovel to put them back in the trenches so the tires don't fall into a deep crevice.
Within sight of being finished, this is a break at the computer.
In FCC Lingo the "Certification Process for Part 15 Transmitters" works this way...
The rules prohibit selling fully-made transmitters if they haven't been "certified" in FCC terms.
This is done when a transmitter maker hires an independent but FCC recognized engineering firm to laboratory test and measure the transmitter to verify that it indeed meets the limitations of 15.239. The engineering firm submits to the FCC a model of the transmitter and the official paperwork showing the measurements and "proofs" that the transmitter meets 15.239.
The FCC reviews the "Submission for Certification" and if it concurs with the results, the FCC issues a valid FCC Certification for the specified transmitter.
The transmitter maker now has the legal right to sell the transmitter.
That's where the certification ends.
To repeat, the FCC Certification legally allows the transmitter maker to sell copies of the particular transmitter that was lab tested.
The FCC Certification for selling transmitters does not confer any special rights to the consumer who buys the transmitter.
The end-user, the customer with his FM transmitter is separately and independently inspected without regard to whether his transmitter is certified or not.
A part 15 hobbyist IS ALLOWED by Part 15 rules to design and build his own transmitter, which cannot legally be sold because it's not certified, but it can be used.
A part 15 hobbyist is ALLOWED by Part 15 rules to build a kit, but he cannot build kits to sell to others.
In my book a kit is exactly the same as a self-built transmitter, but some have other opinions.
Despite the strong difference between what "FCC Certified" really means, and what so many people falsely believe it means, my message now will be forgotten, ignored, not understood or disbelieved.
Someday I'll have enough good sense not to keep explaining it.
This other thing is key to the discussion...
There are known and suspected instances where transmitter manufacturers may have "cheated" on their certifications and sold transmitters that were not the same as the ones that were lab tested.
Perhaps some members have knowledge or opinions about certified cheats.
Apart from FCC rules, the words "certify", "verify", "assert", "swear", "testify" and "promise" are interchangable.
Let me try, Carl.
Certification means that the transmitter has been tested in a lab environment and found that it adheres to the Part 15 rules.
But how you install and use your transmitter can and does affect whether or not you're still Part 15 compliant.
The simplest case that you're not compliant is when you generate interference to a licensed station.
But there are certainly many other ways as well. For example, I once installed my Decade MS-100 within a few inches of a metal roof, and the signal strength increased dramatically! I knew at that point that I was over the Canadian field strength limits and moved it further away from the roof. If you increase the length of the antenna on a certified transmitter, you're going to increase your field strength and not be compliant.
In the case of AM, a long ground wire can make you non compliant with Part 15.219.
In other words, no matter whether your transmitter is certified or not, you are still ultimately responsible for ensuring that you meet the Part 15 guidelines.
If Sainsonic is advertising that their transmitter has a range of 1/4 mile AND certified, then either their advertising is false, or the transmitter is not really certified (as I've posted earlier, there's some question there). Because it is highly unlikely that any FM transmitter that meets Part 15 FM field strengths of 250/m at 3 meters will have that kind of range. 1/4 mile is 1300+ feet, and that's far above the 600-800 feet range that we've calculated you can get with the most sensitive car or home receivers. Maybe with a multi-element yagi beam, but even then, I'd have to see it to believe it.