Neil's job is given discomfort by the kind of uproars being discussed.
We are not pre-schoolers in romper room, and it's important to shine the light every once in awhile on posters with agendas.
That brings us to Rich.
I have not recommended Rich's removal from this board and defend his right to pursue part 15 in his negative way and my right to call attention to it. The false notion that Rich's postings are "true and accurate" is a myth put forward by himself. Expositions should always be welcome pointing out any slight or large errors in "authoritative and definitive" postings from the fellow.
It is Rich who must show some resoect for those of us who fall short in the "fact" department by discontinuing the condescending smugness so often displayed.
Bottom line... while Rich rides shotgun over the part 15 hobby the chickens will get restless every once in awhile and start squawking.
Respect is demonstrated when posts are made with the intent of keeping others out of trouble both legally and technically.
Neil
Barry, it is your choice if you decide to leave this forum, however, if my words reach you, I hope you reconsider, or perhaps take a time out and come back again once you have had a rest from what appears to annoy you the most.
Bruce.
I agree with you Neil, but there's a fine line between preaching and teaching. It is always a good idea to think how others will react to your post before hitting that 'Save' button.
Have I opened a can of worms by merely suggesting a new tab? I hope not.
As I am known to rant (if you have not known by now) I shall throw in my two and a half cents.
Are some seriously complaining about things on here? This is a friendly part 15 radio community. I made a suggestion for an all around, what ever the hell you wanna talk about tab- one that does have radio at its center. I do not see where the complaining began, or how what I said could've possibly started it.
No problem, Atrain. We have a member who enjoys the brisk stimulation of an ongoing argument. It's therapy.
It has nothing to do with your suggestion, ATrain.
If I post something that is past part 15 I'll say something like “This may be past part 15.” Case of when I was trying to get the attention of a Pirate to allow a fellow part 15er to broadcast once in awhile on the only open channel that the Pirate is taking up and won't allow anyone else to broadcast legally. Instead of throwing a Belkin transmitter in his yard and adding an extended wire so it would broadcast at least 300-400 feet to get his attention I suppose I could have said to throw a sign in his yard asking for the use of the frequency. I'm trying to post things more in line with part 15 here, but Radio is Radio and its hard at times lol. But if I do post something that could be past part 15 I'd say “This may be past part 15!” so someone doesn't do it thinking they are legal. There some gray areas. One is 87.9 Mhz because there is a proposal to open it up. The rules don't mention it, but transmitters sold in Wal Mart include it. So when I talk about 87.9 Mhz I'll say Gray Area. If one decides to use it and gets in trouble its on them because I said Gray Area. But if I lie and say “its legal and cool to use 87.9 Mhz!” that makes me a liar and a trouble maker if I were to keep doing so after being told not to. But if I say “Lega make 87.9 Mhz no longer a gray area in the FM Initiative!” that to me is not causing trouble because I'm acknowledging that at present there may be a legal issue with 87.9 Mhz. No matter what we say here the operator is going to do what they are going to do. We need to encourage sensible operation and discourage reckless operation this is true, but where is the line. I hope I can still discuss taming down transmitters that may not be certified, but can be used as long as the power is kept to a reasonable level. I know I'm ranting, but just trying to make a few points here.
There are no grey areas in part 15 laws. The FCC makes it very clear what you can and cannot do. 87.9 / 87.7 are considered part of TV Channel 6, the FCC removed part 15 TV some years ago.
Just because something MIGHT be discussed in the halls of the FCC does not make it law. These "grey" areas are what started so much trouble to begin with. Going by hearsay and what is to be, I might as well go ahead and just build a 250 watt FM station, because I just KNOW they will license the FM Translator for the AM station.
This skirting and stretching of the rules has been plaguing this website for awhile now. Honestly it needs to stop, so much "grey" area is taken to be truth here and it WILL get someone in trouble.
Atrain,
You are probably sitting there wondering "what just happened?" It has nothing to do with your starting this topic...it has to do with thread drift and I apologize for being part of it. This is why I posted a sticky on the front page about staying on topic and illustrates the value of this.
Neil
Yes I get that just because something was talked about in the halls of the FCC does not make it legal yet. Give this one time it will be. It will be bright and no hassle will ever come when it is made so. We'll have time to comment on the proposal too. It was posted here on part 15 dot us earlier. Earlier in this forum we talked about certification. Station 8 and I have talked about this as well. He has done his homework in this. Certification means a transmitter can be sold legally. But then things get sticky when talking about kits and importing transmitters that you can power down to legal field strength of 250 uV/m @ 3 meters. Then people say that just because the transmitter goes 10 inches is why it has 87l9 Mhz in them. To which I stated there must be a lot of law breakers at Walmart. All of which we have talked about and there is much research you can do by using Google. I would think most of the users here know to use Google and to try and read the scope of title 47 part 15 and the sections. OK getting back on topic. If we want change we must do something about it. Otherwise use AM and hope Station8's antenna really works for you as well as it does for him. I'm at a point where I'm going to dump more into this AM project. I think there is more interest in AM here anyway. I urge anyone who is interested in the antenna to go to the ALPB website and join the ALPB and know what is about to take place with this antenna. Anything other than AM seems moot here. At least we know what the rules are for AM and they are indisputable and to the point. Funny thing is that if this antenna does work it will put a kibosh to all the ground lead talk as no one will even want to break the rules. Be happy in your hobby.
MIghty1650 said "This skirting and stretching of the rules has been plaguing this website for awhile now. Honestly it needs to stop, so much "grey" area is taken to be truth here and it WILL get someone in trouble."
I know this is drifting way off topic, but I think that this is an important post. Because it is plain wrong.
Anybody who has posted about skirting the rules here has been asked to cease and desist. That includes 87.9, milliwatts up to 1 watt on FM, excessive ranges, etc. I'm sure I missed a few. I don't know how many times the moderators have stated that the intent of this website is to discuss LEGAL, unlicensed broadcasting. It would be pretty difficult to take anything else away from here.
And that last bit is a pretty broad statement - there are obviously a few who want to push the boundaries. But to state that the grey areas are taken as truth insults virtually everyone who participates here. Most of whom have extensive electronics and/or radio experience and/or many years experience of operating Part 15.
And don't forget that some are Hams too. That accounts for some things here. Even a layman can get the gest of what is allowed and what is not. Again AM seems to be the thing to use for Range. And there is a project going on now. I'm a beta tester of it as well. When construction begins I'll let you know. I understand all about the rules and what everyone here wants. Anything else I'll go elsewhere to discuss when it comes to FM as I think that subject is moot here. I'm actually done with discussing anything FM here at all. I'm not going to be baned for it that is not worth the effort. I know my place for FM where I'm welcome. But AM you'll see more posts. Like I said its not worth it to me getting others mad. Again I know where FM is welcome. Plus I'm working on a Pro FM site with a few friends.
Not intending to knock on anyone here. I do recognize many of us here do have related professions. A ton of blatant misinformation does get caught and corrected. However, you have to admit some misinformation DOES on occasion slip by and get spread around. After that it just seems to stick.
To clarify on grey areas, I think it is perfectly fine to experiment in grey zones. I just don't want people taking it for fact by mistake.
Mighty1650 said "However, you have to admit some misinformation DOES on occasion slip by and get spread around."
But that's the case with all Forums. And it's far worse elsewhere.
I remember the chief folks over at Hobbybroadcaster stating unequivocally that if you got more than 200 feet range from a Part 15 FM transmitter, then it was illegal. No hedging and talking about the installation parameters. Is that correct most of the time? Yes. But it is just plain wrong if you elevate your transmitter/antenna combination significantly. And I don't recall anything except words of praise coming forward on that site about this misinformation.
I also remember on one of the professional radio boards an engineer coming forward and stating unilaterally that if you got more than 1 meter (3 feet!) range from a Part 15 transmitter then you were illegal. No one there stepped forward to correct the guy except me.
From what I've seen and read, this board tries the hardest to correct technical mistakes. But the moderators can't be everywhere, and it's there where the posting freedom here pays off. Someone will usually step forward and let you know (although not all will listen). I'd rather have that (and some of the problems that that freedom generates) than a more restrictive environment where you're always worried about contradicting the 'authorities'.