Rich Powers said
"Just one more thing.. If you really want to persue something, maybe it would be better that instead of getting the part 15 limitations lifted, to focus on the creation an entirely brand new micro-powered broadcasting license outside of part 15.. Something well below low power, yet well above part 15. A much simpler and cheaper to apply for and acheive."
Great point....but a licence has to be possible to get and affordable to a hobbiest who will not be making a business from this.
@Artisan....I agree with you about talk and no action on more range for part 15. The subject has been going on for so long...like a broken record. But the New Zealand model is something that could be looked at by Canada and the USA.
Mark
Rather than quote everyone's name and text and then provide my response to it, I'll cover everything said and hopefully each one of you will see my response to you.
First, I am not trying to be negative at all when I say 87.7MHz is not going to happen. Please refere to any reference that states the band of frequencies used for television stations in the USA and North America. 87.7MHz is the audio carrier frequency for channel 6.
With a repack about to take place in the television broadcast spectrum, where UHF is being sold off to wireless companies and the need to move back into the lower UHF band and VHF High and then Low bands, it is more than likely channel 6 transmitters will be popping up everywhere.
Just because you had no channel 6 in 1999, 2003 or 2009, does not mean you won't get one in 2017 and beyond. I am sorry, I just can not see the FCC putting part FM 15 on 87.7MHz.
I am pro, I just can't see WLNE-TV Providence R.I. which left channel 6 to move to channel 49 digital allowing part 15 radio on their audio carrier of 87.7MHz across Providence R.I. if they are required to move back to their former analog channel.
What about WPVI in Philadelphia PA? They also were on channel 6.
The next big issue, is Station8 said he has an 88.1MHz FM station in his area, so he is blocked from using 87.9MHz and would have to use 87.7MHz instead, but, what happens when a local station moves to VHF channel 6 after the repack?
I am sad to see poeple drop out of this topic because it seems to be going nowhere, I do not agree and wish everyone would stay active in this topic regardless of it's current direction, because each and every response or comment has a positive impact.
Your responses may not agree with my responses, but I am not going to drop out of the topic because I want to know how you all feel and that is important to me.
I want to propose something that is going to help, not destroy the hobby and that is only going to hapen if each of you present your personal view points, pros and cons, strenths and weaknesses, that is the only way this is going to work.
So, please don't drop out, because things do not look like they are moving forward, because that is one reason why they aren't moving forward, people not participating out of fear that no one is listening or simply saying it is a lost cause.
I say 1 watt allowed on part 15 might help, however that does not mean I do not want someone posting reasons why that is too much to ask for or that asking for anything more then we are currently allowed is asking for trouble. You very well could be right and I value your answers.
I would however at least like to say when all is said and done, that we at least looked at the whole picture and came up with a reasonable proposition and gave it a run by at the federal level, the FCC. You never know the actual outcome without at least trying it, then you can say, see we tried it and it was rejected, but at least we tried.
You can ask around at other sites related to television broadcasting in regards to 87.7MHz and see if they say, yes the FCC will allow part 15 and television channel 6 to use the same frequency and this will work out just fine. I personally think they will laugh and say, that is not happening, they do not allow two different television stations in the same market area to transmit on the same channel unless they are sharing time on the same television broadcast transmitter. I just don't see 87.7 for part 15 FM happening.
Again, it is your choice if you want to drop out and abandon, ignore this topic, but if you want my opinion, your input has valid reasons, has added worth while knowledge and dropping out is only hurting the positive flow of this topic, we need your input, doesn't matter whether it agrees or disagrees, it is still seen as a positive participation. So my fellow forum members, please keep the comments coming!
Now, Richpowers mentioned a different band to allow part 15 broadcasting where we are not interfering with licensed broadcasters.
Good idea RichPowers, keep the flow going, suggestions are open as to which band would work best. Any ideas?
Bruce.
require a ham license to use this new band, specify it's for individuals no business use, and disallow simulcasting programming from an FCC licensed LPFM or Full power station. it will create a bunch of new hams, create diverse programming, and will keep it from being gobbled up by Calvery and other spectrum hogs.
kc8gpd Said:
require a ham license to use this new band
MrBruce said:
That would be acceptable, however which class ticket are we talking here? Hopefully not one requiring morse code, I am tone deaf and can't get a ticket requiring morse code. I took and failed the morse code test. Yup, my hearing loss is just that bad and listening to a few minutes of those tones in 10 meters hurts my ear drums like you wouldn't believe. Leaves me with a ring in the ears afterwards.
How about technician class ticket?
Bruce.
just a simple tech would suffice. it will require some technical knowledge and the very requirement of a ham license should be enough to preclude licensed stations, churches, and business from gobbling up all the frequencies.
Morse Code is GONE. No longer required for ANY ham license.
it still is for the very highest license (Extra Class) but that is the only one. unless they did away with it on that license as well now.
no need for anything higher than General except for status symbol as general gives you all you needs in terms of frequencies and power.
I have no issue with a separate license for Hobby Radio below the output of LPFM and above part 15. It should get out at least a mile or two AM or FM or both and FULL quieting to that 1-2 mile range. I do believe I mentioned it but maybe not clear enough. I kept calling it Extended Part 15 or Hobby Radio for lack of a good name for it. It could be called ULP-FM for ultra low power FM or simply Micro FM. It should be 1 Watt or shy of it 700-800 mW. And that should get that mile to 2 mile Stereo FM range. As far as interference if the site was not in a metro area I don't see much issue. As for AM I don't see anything wrong with 1 Watt on AM. To be honest AM may have a slight better chance of this.
As far as Online streaming I've already said that subject is already being dealt with and very harshly may I add. Don't think the thousands of stations will take this as they lay down in a hole like a dying dog. Even some LPFM broadcasters are fighting this radical tyranny and they know this is robbing plenty of businesses and now taking away jobs from server hosts, Shoutcast, Icecast, effects Tune In Radio, and plenty of others who've counted on Radio as a social and musical focal point in many aspects including and not limited to Low Income folks who barely can afford to live let alone buy every song they ever want to hear till their dying day. They had the chance when Napster offered ad supported p2p but the industry looks at its music fans as a Pirate and wants more money. I've tried back then to get the public to wake the hell up and do a petition but everyone sat and waited for someone to do the work for them. A few of the people I've been associated with tried but it seems to take 10 years to catch on with many folks who don't even watch or listen to the news and then when someone they dislike gets into office they wonder why? So the fight is going to have to start with the education to a public mass who has been too willing to let someone else do their thinking for them and would rather be ignorant in thinking ignoring a problem will make it go away.
The comment that the Radio Hobby will be left off if we leave better off well alone? Why may I ask was part of the FCC enforcement document blacked out? Who's to say there is not something on the docket that in the dead of night will crush part 15 AM and FM? Already the lines between are a blur at best. A separate service for Hobby Radio is a good call to start.
Nope, Code requirement gone even for Extra Class--
From the ARRL: "General licensees may upgrade to Extra Class by passing a 50-question multiple-choice examination. No Morse code test is required."
The legacy said "It should get out at least a mile or two AM or FM or both and FULL quieting to that 1-2 mile range."
And I ask, why? Where does this come from? What is the justification for it? Is there any evidence at all anywhere that the FCC or licensed broadcasting industry would support it? Or that the general public is clamoring for it?
[By the way, those are the kinds of questions that you will have to address when even considering a formal petition to achieve it]
... Or that the general public is clamoring for it? ...
_____________
Good point, AR.
Might it be true that the people clamoring for it are just "Part 15" operators wanting to improve the useful coverage areas of such unlicensed systems ?
In my small little town alone the public asks me “Why such short range?” And I have to tell them that technically the FCC is at fault, but I'm trying to start a petition to get more power for Hobby broadcasting.
All is not lost because Alan from WBCQ is now pushing for something similar to what I have tried for FM, but only for SW and around 6.9 Mhz. I think I'll call in to his talk show Friday and talk about this along with the FM and AM proposals as well. Maybe we'll get more folks interested and maybe be able to forge ahead with this as well. He already has some folks backing his idea and really we need to pay close attention to this and just make the initiative one with his. Remember where he started. Remember what HE calls himself on the air at times. That being said there is a demand for something other than one company owning several stations at once in the same market. I for one am a little interested in maybe broadcasting on SW and maybe getting something for AM or FM.
I learned too at the meeting that AM could be in jeopardy if they decide to bring in more stations from 1600-1700 Khz. Now this is something everyone should watch out. Remember when I said “who says that in the dead of night AM part 15 may already get stomped out of existence? This is something you all would have learned if you were a participant at the ALPB meeting.
I think this goes beyond Part 15, and into small-coverage: 2 miles, max. Licensed. FM. Let's get it done.
Of course you all have to take into account the supposed purpose of the FCC, which was initially to provide interference free service to local communities and regions. Hence no domestic shortwave (can't be local), and no AM licensed under 250 watts daytime (can't be TOO locally restricted). We have local radio service now called LPFM, LPAM would be a nice addition as well.
Getting back to the case at hand, does a 1 or 2 mile radio station really do the public any good? Or does it just needlessly raise the already high noise floor? Do we REALLY need to license such low power levels? These are things the feds and the NAB will be asking. Remember how hard it was to get LPFM.
I wasn't going to mention this, but Today I along with a few of my friends started a petition document. Now that there is some interest by other Radio folks who remember where they came from I started as of Today with an actual document. Now I've said I was not good at the proper format, but I've made some copies of the document for some to read and see how it goes. I had to put some fixes on it again Today. Once its iron clad I'll put it out for the general public to read. I'll sum it up in the fact that I have an iron clad validation for this to work. Part 15 stations or other similar unlicensed service can be portable. Many commercial stations in a given area share the same tower with many antennas. So when a hurricane, tornado, or natural disaster occurs all communications in that area could be wiped out. But if someone has a low power portable station they can be up and running and inform the community of the events. Also keep in mind that many rural areas don't have a commercial station or the fact that many rural areas are not served. With hobby Radio an operator can have their area programmed into a NOAA weather Radio for weather and even have that mute your audio and switch to the weather Radio. Plus local authorities can make important announcements on the part 15 or amateur broadcast station. That serves the community. There is more to the document however I do have valid reasons that the FCC should look at the valid reasons for such a service or for more power for unlicensed operation. If a license is required it should be no fee and fairly easy to get.
Fear not there is work being done behind the scene only difference is I'm calling it the AM, FM, SW initiative. I haven't decided yet if or how I'll present 87.9 Mhz, but 1 Watt for FM will be asked for as well as 2 watts for AM and unlimited ground leads. Plus allowing for an improve antenna as well. But trust me the document is being worked on by a few of us since I started to construct the document. Its rough at this point, but will be discussed at the meeting and The FM Initiative on Teamspeak. I'll probably open it up after the document is more in its ready stage. Bruce you will get a copy of the document if you want. Its time for action, not just words as its been 8 months now and I'm ready to Rock. I thank those who have been supporting me the entire time.