FCC-Permissible Operation for Unlicensed Use of 1710 kHz

Without trying too hard I found several Part 15 stations on 1710.  Here's one:

http://www.t1700.net/

Here's another:

http://www.neighborhoodradio.info/

And how can we forget the ever popular:

http://www.rkpradio.com/

And for a more exoctic flavor there's:

http://www.laexplosionlatina.com/

So, they're out there.  They may not be participants here, but they exist. 

TIB

Even if no one asked for it, here is my opinion. Rich is bored, he saw some one running a station on 1710 and said to himself, i have got to make them see the light, change their ways and commit to being 100% compliant.

This jabbing was (again, my opinion) aimed towards John of WDCX- AM 1710 and/or others who are broadcasting on 1710 khz. Pointless jabbing since we don't know for sure the technical details of these stations. They could be at reduced power, running below the 100 mW power to the input stage blah blah, blargg!

Does the op work for HB godfather or something?? Geez give it a rest. Go see the sights of America before it becomes illegal to do so, do something with your time Rich. M'Kay?

As a matter of fact, i think i'll put one of my transmitters on 1710 just for snots and giggles. Should I post my home address and phone number or just wait outside in the yard for a letter from the FCC?

Makes my head hurt.

I just thought the post was interesting and informative.

For me (warning, potential thread hijack soming) I often wonder why operators decide to do things that limit potential listeners.

Now, I can fully appreciate doing things just because you can, and doing things because you want to just because you like to experiment and fool around with stuff.  Lord knows I do it all the time.

Assuming you are broadcasting Part 15 because your intent is that someone might listen to you, why would people purposely reduce audience potential.

1710 is one example,  You are legally allowed to use much less power. A lot of AM radios won't even tune to 1710. You've eliminated most of the potential audience.

AM stereo. Why? OK, I get it, as an experiment because you can. I can get behind that. But really, Part 15 AM has a limited audience as it is.  What are the chances someone in that random and minimal audience will have the ability to HEAR it in stereo? The statistical number would be 0. So why do it? I get that some do because they CAN, and there's education, satisfaction and novelty in that.  So if your main goal is the fun of experimenting that's fine. But if your goal is to reach an audience it just doesn't matter.

For that matter, I put Part 15 FM into the same category. Why dramatically limit the potential audience with greatly reduced coverage compared to AM.  Not to mention the complications involved with insuring your transmitter is legal. Legal AM is so much easier to confirm than legal FM.  I get that FM has far superior audio.  But if the only people who can hear it are your neighbors is it worth it? I can hear people saying already "But my (jazz, classical or classic rock) format requires the better audio." OK, so do the math. For me, FM compared to AM coverage drops my potential audience by more than 99%.  Legal FM here would hit about 12 houses. Legal AM covers a population of nearly 2000. 40 people or 2000? Then, you need the better audio for your special format.  Out of those 40 peoople how many are classical, jazz or classic rock fans?  Even if it was 20% (not likely) that leaves you with 8 people who might be interested. 

Anyway, just sitting here reading. 

Anyway, just what I'm thinking on this.

TIB

From BBR:  ... Pointless jabbing since we don't know for sure the technical details of these stations. They could be at reduced power, running below the 100 mW power to the input stage ....

Note that my post assumed that all of those systems met the Part 15 rules applicable to them, including the one on 1710 kHz.  No accusations or assumptions were made by me that they were illegal systems.

My post just asked why an unlicensed operator would choose a carrier frequency of 1710 kHz, when legal operation there produces poorer performance than when operating legally in the standard broadcast band (which ends at 1700 kHz).

One of the 1710 links posted in # 16 by Tim in Bovey is Troubador 1700.

Troubador was pushed off the dial when WRCR moved their frequency to 1700 with 10 kW from Ramapo NY.

Scroll down on the Trubador website for an explanation of the frequency moves.

http://www.t1700.net/

MrBruce and morningDJ I hope this comment meets your standards.

To answer Rich's question, in my opinion since most AM transmitters, the procaster in particular, go up to 1710 khz and not knowing that that frequency is outside the AM band just think since nothing is there that's a good place to go. But your info is noted I'm sure by anyone who thought it was ok to go there with 100mW power. The majority of decent radio's will get to that frequency, but no stations are past 1700khz.

Mark

Mark, you and others will be surprised to learn there are licensed Traffic Information Stations operating on 1710.

There is mention of it on the Trobador1700 website linked above.

Its plain stupid of the FCC to not allow such as an unused frequency like 1710 Khz without the same power as the rest of the band.  Its an empty channel.  They SHOULD just give it to Hobby Broadcasters.  The FCC asks for some of the issues they have Today.

I wonder if I should break out the incriminating LGL picture of someone we know. Heh Heh...

How many FCC actions against Part 15 operators on 1710? I am not talking high power pirates. I am talking 100 mW or less operations? This should start some web searches from our agent. LOL!

The Legacy wrote: "Its plain stupid of the FCC to not allow such as an unused frequency like 1710 Khz without the same power as the rest of the band "

Think of 1710 khz as a guard band or frequency, it's original intent is to protect the aeronautical and maritime frequencies above 1700 khz.
The medium wave band starts around 500 khz or so and ends at about 2650 khz.

The higher end of the band is often mistaken for shortwave but it actually is medium wave, a thin slice of this band is 160 meter ham band.
2300 khz to 2495 khz is the Tropical band often reffered to as tropical shortave frequencies 120 meters. 1710 khz is used as a sort of buffer zone, that way a 10 KW broadcast station can't interefere with vital services above it's operating frequency.

And since we can operate at 1710 khz we have to remember our carrier must be reduced by 60 dB, which is why the potential coverage area is so small.

Historical tid bit, 1610 to 1700 khz used to be a police band.

Cool website to visit is MWList

timinbovey Regarding your post above.

I believe I do a lot of what I do for the education, the learning of new things by experimentation and the personal enjoyment and personal satisfaction of all of the above but not limited to all of the above.

Although AM Stereo does not meet with a lot of compatible AM stereo radios, the signal can still be listened to on a conventional mono AM radio receiver.

I would like to experiment with a lesser than usual broadcast format as in AM C-Quam because it needs someone to experiment with it, give it some exposure, give it some public mention and perhaps with all that is said and done, C-Quam Stereo may once again become popular and included in all future RF type consumer radios and perhaps even cell phones.

Bruce.

1710 is all the way at the top on lots of radios, and usually the ends of the dial are where you find alternative stations. Big city stations kind of cluster around the middle of the band, then minority broadcasters, schools, outdoor movie theaters, Shopper's Radio at shopping centers, kids doing radio with drifty transmitters, park info, usually are at either end of the dial, 530 and 1610.

Some may still tune to those channels, now 1710, if they see a sign or hear about a station there. I think about old AM radios not being able to get the expanded band, like all of my dad's radios.

Most new or car radios seem to be able to get to 1710, though some older analogue radios are still being made the old fashioned way, Sony's pocket and portables believe it or not, with a couple of models that go to 1600 and the reception stops at around 1640-50.

Since Part 15 rules are an allowance to broadcast as long as a station doesn't cause interference, it would seem that frequencies like 1710 would be a good thing to use for broadcasting with 100 milliwatts.

I think the intent of the rules is in favor of squelching interference as the first order of business, not necessarily reduce the range of a station or number of listeners it could have.

I'm thinking of a drive-in theater that may have a few hundred cars all listening to the movie's soundtrack, or a campus station, which could cover a wide area, and also hundreds, maybe thousands of students in all the buildings, and with strong signals to all of them.

Many of these stations freely broadcast for years to their audiences as "local" stations with local field strength, without problems. Now if one of those stations had drifted near a licensed station and caused splatter on it, then that would be cause for concern and some kind of action to be taken, where just having a strong signal in the receiving range of a community of many people is no problem.

So, it seems like interference is really the concern, and it's legit, stations shouldn't interfere with each other and each have their own space, and that might be why some stations choose to use these outer frequencies, less interference from or to anyone else.

There probably should be some designated frequencies for Part Fifteen to use for broadcasting, I don't mean limit stations to like 1710, but make it so that no full power stations are assigned there, and interference expected from other possible Part 15s, at least the power levels of competing stations would be the same.

In a way 1610 is like that now, it's a gap, but other countries use it, so there are still some stations coming in when propagation is good. Otherwise, it's a nice frequency for low power, and it's still in the range where all am radios can receive it.

Also, if someone has an issue with my operation, send a Personal Message to me about it. I see other operators calling out about someone's technical operation in commercial radio where there's heavy competition, but Peewee-15's just a fun hobby for the enjoyment of all.

I think there is too much nosy parkers here looking for something to put to an end for the Hobby Broadcaster.  Sad days indeed.  I'm willing to bet however there are plenty of Full 100 mW plus stations on 1710 Khz.  These stations only get out a mile or two what is the harm anyway?  I still like 1630 Khz is fine where I live.  But we must rememberr those folks where they can't operate on those frequencies because of local AM stations.

I've had plenty of folks tell me they won't be listening to me on AM no how, no way.  Its a hard sell for most folks.