I'm just going to go with the certified whip installation before trying something different...
My intention was to figure everything out, - and then do it.
But now, I'm changing strategy to; Just doing it - and then figure out what I'm doing later!
I have to, otherwise my station is never going to get past my "thinking" stage.
I really have to get moving, it's gotten ridiculous.
Well quite often over-thinking tends to only bring over-confusion and you end up eventually doing over-nothing.
Thing with these rings and loops and hoops on antennas is that there is no rule anywhere saying they cannot be added. The argument ..and that is all it really is...an argument....across all the forums regarding this stuff, not just here...that adding loops and hats and candy cane j-pols violate the rules. Blah blah blah blah. There is ONLY one specification for the antenna in the 219 rule....3 METERS!
Just re-adjust everything so that is all nice and crammed into the 3 meter limit, no matter which way you want to measure...diameter, radius, OD, ID, whatever....and leave it up to the agent to figure it all out while you stand there ready to hand them a measuring tape.
And yes....just do it! This is experimenting to learn about antennas and radio propagation. And there is no greater teacher than by doing!
RFB
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Mark,
Wonderful post. I feel all discrete ("read at your own discretion!!") after going through it. A ray of sunshine on a cloudy day. Help stop paralysis by analysis. "Stupid is as stupid does.", "Life is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what yer gonna git." -Forrest Gump. Well said my friend. Couldn't have said it better myself.
P.S.- could I trouble you for some jelly beans and pumpkin seeds?
Thumbs up on that Valcom self-standing antenna. Very attractive to the tower worshipper.
The glowing antenna was neat too, and I just had a high chimney rebuilt... there could be antennas everywhere.
Oh, hey, got a question. Right out the window I am rebuilding a 12-foot high bamboo tower that got blown over in a wind storm because it was top heavy with flowering vines. This time the base will be better weighted so it will stand firm, and the vines will come back.
Want to add a 10-foot copper on the tower, and this relates to a discussion on botanically integrated antennas, will the vines do something to the radiant pattern?
"But that aside, for the time being I'm just going to go with the certified whip installation before trying something different... I really have to get moving, it's gotten ridiculous." Rich powers
You say it got ridiculous? I agree. Stick with the basics. I don't know what a "certified whip" is? As I said in my first post Rich, a base loaded mono poll, like the SSTran design is all figured out, a known good performer. If you follow the free SSTran instructions you will get something useful. The parallel element or overhang top-hat, not attached, will do change your pattern. I doubt that will be value added unless you are trying to block your signal in one direction. I personally don't think a reflector is a radiating element, but again FCC agents not internet opinions.
Yes I know the loop antenna works. The guy who made that example, can transmit his AM radio signal through a brick walled building end to end. A omni directional wire did not travel far. A loop antenna concentrates the signal in one plane. His goal was indoor range, not outdoor range, however it would work well outside. Another guy in Netherlands who uses a loop (size unknown) with a 100 mW Talking House, claims miles of range. Keep in mind you are not wasting your signal in all directions but focusing it in one or two directions.
Just for a fun what if you use two loops and two transmitters playing the same audio... Hum? What about three transmitters and three loops? Obviously way less practical, "legal" or not.
I have a directional pattern and LOVE IT! My antenna is a tuned 3 meter long wire against the back of my house. It covers the whole house very nicely from back to front, down the drive, into the street and down the street a hundred feet. Perpendicular to the back of the house, into the backyard, past local effect, signal is quite attenuated. I just want to cover the house and do that in spades.
My "philosophy" about range is WHY? Most of us live on less than an acre (209'x209') in stick built homes. Any range over what you need or signal in directions not needed is wasted. 100 mW, 9 feet of antenna is good enough, however it's fun to try for range on flee power. We need an annual PART 15 contest to see who has REAL range. I think there is exaggeration going on in reported range. Part 15 FM or AM is good for about 200 feet with not much effort. AM Part 15 can stretch to 0.5 to 0.75 miles with effort. I'm a little dubious of 2 mile claims with a righteous no cheating transmitter/antenna. My point is figure out what you want to do with your Part 15 transmitter and go for that.
You say it got ridiculous? I agree. Stick with the basics. I don't know what a "certified whip" is? As I said in my first post Rich, a base loaded mono poll, like the SSTran design is all figured out, a known good performer. If you follow the free SSTran instructions you will get something useful
Jetpilot, I was referring to myself when I say it's gotten ridiculous.. What I mean is that I have been going around in circles and not going anywhere, when instead I could have already been on air and figured it out as I go along -- I wasn't implying the different methods of utilizing antennas themselves as being ridiculous at all -- just me!
And as for the "certified whip" comment; I meant I have the Rangemaster and will for now just used the whip that it is certified to use, and then later consider the use of improved antenna designs for use with it.. (which of course will void the xmtr certification).
My "ridiculous" comment had nothing to do with the advice you gave!
"...will the vines do something to the radiant pattern?" -Carl Blare
Green foliage tends to attenuate radio signals. This is however a generality. The higher the frequency the higher the attenuation from the same foliage. If the vines cover the radiator, there will be some attenuation. How much? You won't know until it's fully grown in. You might call the new antenna, The Jolly Green Giant. The jingle: "HO, HO, HO, Green Giant." And, you could take on the persona of "Little Sprout".
I think we may have germinated a new idea (just in time for the start of Spring).
Hellos to everybody and a message for Rich.
You'll get there. Just enjoy what you're doing.
It's not easy to put a Part 15 AM station on
that goes far... Go with what you know and
then just add to it. Sooner or later you'll
get where you're going. It took me years
to get my station to cover a lot of the town
in a car radio, and a bunch of houses on my
street.
Also, it's not easy to build a really good studio.
You keep seeing all sorts of little problems. You
solve some and then more crop up. That's OK.
I don't regret any of it. Except for the low power
FM, my station isn't really running. But I'm working
on the automation system right now and that's fun too!
Bruce, MICRO1690/1700
How to define range is a good question.
I've had neighbors listen on boomboxes
and somebody luckily had a GE Superadio.
This all took place within 500 to 1000 feet
from my house. Reception was fair on the
boombox, and great on the Superadio.
At the height of my AM operation, GE Superadio
range (I have one too) was good to the south
for about 1000 - 2000 feet OUTSIDE. Northern
coverage was VERY different. It was almost
impossible to hear my station on the street
behind mine. But then way way back in that
direction reception improved.
Actually, for anybody to hear my station in any
house within 1000 feet was a victory, I felt.
The AM band has so much noise and interference
on it from so many devices. Yet, the station got
through, and 1000 feet is approaching a quarter
mile. (Well, almost.)
I should have kept better logs. This is where the
top hat comes in. On a really really good car radio,
my station went a mile. Somewhere after that,
I added the top hat. It was huge - five feet in
diameter with four spokes. It had to be guyed.
After that, the station was going 2 miles on that
really really good car radio. But mixed in with
that is the fact that I tried two different transmitter
locations in my yard. I'm just reporting
this as data. There were SO MANY variables.
We've talked about the legality of top hats a lot
and I really really don't know - I can't decide.
That's why I'm looking at thicker antenna
designs now. If I had a Rangemaster with
a 102" CB whip, I'd just throw it in the
backyard and go back on 1690 tomorrow.
I had lots of different loading coils, I made a
variometer, I tried so many different things.
Also, because I am almost legally blind, and
still had to try to construct things quickly,
a lot was just thrown together. My wife wasn't
crazy about it - and a lot was done at night in
the dark outside. After a while, my antenna
just started falling apart. Connections were
rusting because I had no time to seal them.
The 16 radial ground system started to come
apart. And that was the very last radial system I
made. The original one in another location
only had 4 radials. Also, my yard is in a valley.
When it was raining it would become a swamp.
In most cases that would make things better
you would think. But in my case it detuned
everything and then the signal would not go
as far.
That's when I turned the AM off. I was spending
too much time trying to figure out what was
wrong.
So range is hard to define. I am just happy that a
few nice people were interested enough to listen to
my station at that time.
Best Wishes,
Bruce, MICRO1690/1700
....That's when I turned the AM off. I was spending
too much time trying to figure out what was
wrong.
Enjoyed that post Bruce.
But sad when you turned the AM off.
my yard is in a valley.
When it was raining it would become a swamp.
At that point I would have taken an inner tube and constructed a floating antenna with heavy fishing sinkers for anchors and a sheet of aluminum foil or thin copper sheets at the bottom for ground contact with the water.
Works quite well. Did that on a lake, signal went 6 miles every direction.
RFB
My "ridiculous" comment had nothing to do with the advice you gave!
No worries, I was agreeing with you as well. At some point we have to make something. I also try to think of something different, "better" or just wacky, often wasting time, instead of taking the path of least resistance. It's fun brain storming or bull storming to a point. I've always been fascinated with loops for receiving, and want to experiment down the road with one for transmitting, but you can't beat the 3m stick. Cheers.
'"...will the vines do something to the radiant pattern?" -Carl Blare
Green foliage tends to attenuate radio signals.' - Marshall
Say, I've been looking back thru this thread and trying to figure it out ... where did the vines thing come from? Or have I gotten the wrong .. umm ... vintage?
Carl's "Thumb Stuckup" posting....
Ken, should we wait for you or....? 😛