But I disagree that we should be whistle blowers, informants, snitches, complainers about how others build their stations.
Exceeding the rules of part 15 are not criminal matters and have no victims. We are not paid to be rule enforcers. Why do a job we don't have?
We must accept interference and we may not cause interference.
I disagree with changing the focus. We agreed, I thought, to be international in nature, not Part 15 centric. Programming & copyright was a good start. If this evolves into a US centric political lobby group, I am just not interested.
Artisan Radio, you are correct that at present the group has a name and has discussed starting missions, including central program distributorship for part 15 producers and an international focus to include low power radio from everywhere. That is formalized, and is not changed by different opinions being talked about informally outside of meetings.
I think the problem is that so many members are quitting or threatening to quit because things are not the way they think it should be.
It's not an unusual problem. Part 15 people are a type of artist or individualist, and individualists are not inclined to work in committees.
What should we do about the real problem, keeping people in the group and not quitting in anger.
Just as I hit SAVE on the "Rule of Thumb" thing, I had a brain flash.
I think this low power group is even more important and valuable to the good of part 15 radio than I at first thought, and I thought it was a good idea.
But now I see it as a powerful idea, because it offers so many opportunities to learn new communications skills.
Running a radio station requires management, and a manager must be able to meet with program suppliers, the talent they may employ, the engineers they may goto for help, the copyrights handling, and staying on good terms in the neighborhood and community.
In fact, speaking to the group to promote an idea is the same as lobbying, that is, trying to push forward a special agenda for which you need approval or the go-ahead from the group so that they will take your idea and convert it to policy.
Anyone who quits the Association of Low Power Broadcasters, in my opinion, IS STILL IN THE GROUP, because I will not accept their resignation!
Once you join, you can never get out. It's worse than scientology!
"Once you join, you can never get out. It's worse than scientology!"
Yeah..that's what the CIA told me back in 81 too.
RFB
"regarding the chairman running a questionable part 15219 setup including self incriminating photo evidence"
Sounds like a criminal accusation.
"I sometimes wonder if some of us should be inspectors."
Sounds like an informant.
You all here would be surprised at a person's past career.
But that is off topic.
RFB
It really is.
"I disagree that we should be whistle blowers, informants, snitches, complainers about how others build their stations."
I am not suggesting that we become a volunteer inspection agency for an agency that already does that.
What I am saying is if something is noticed, by anyone, especially if that something raises more questions than answers, then who is going to step up to the plate and bring the issue to the forefront if not the agency we all rely on and obey and follow their rules?
If Part 15 operators are to adhere to the law, then so is everyone else, be it a licensed radio station or a company marketing devices that fall under that same federal regulation.
This morphing of law into a double standard fit the need/issue is bogus and is NOT what this country was founded upon.
Just accepting what is..is not what the founding fathers did when they sailed over from England to create this great nation.
With the other issue..programs etc. My point was that the organization can put its focus on issues that will require more than just setting up some ftp or time sheet or editing for content.
Besides, there is already a program distribution system set up for the Long Wave Radio Network, to which that can also be utilized for distributing programs for MW or FM Part 15'ers. Just because it carries a title of Long Wave Radio Network ftp, doesn't mean that it cannot be used or even re-named for this program distributing thing.
Does the NAB focus on distributing programs, or do they focus on administrative level issues dealing directly with the FCC and government?
Perhaps following their example might help put things into better prospective, as well as put things on the correct path.
RFB
"I think the problem is that so many members are quitting or threatening to quit because things are not the way they think it should be."
Once again, spot on. Now why would there be anyone quitting or about to quit if things were going in the way it should be?
Or maybe it is because they have already been swept aside on their concerns or ideas.
"It's not an unusual problem. Part 15 people are a type of artist or individualist, and individualists are not inclined to work in committees. What should we do about the real problem, keeping people in the group and not quitting in anger."
Perhaps the organization should run like one should be running, focusing on issues that directly affect our operations..such as the rules and getting changes made.
See the rules affects all of us. Programing is only a per station issue to which each individual makes those decisions about the programs on their station. So why does the organization need to focus on an issue that is best handled by each station operator? Why should I be concerned about xyz's programs or how they get their programs when I got my own stations to manage?
Why should the organization be steered to this irrelevant issue of program distribution when every other day or week the discussions here focus on the ridiculous limitations in the Part 15 rules? Shouldn't that organization use it's time more wisely and start developing a strategy to attack the real problem...the seriously outdated and over-bloated rules?
Wouldn't any of you like to see that 100mW limit raised? How about the 3 meter antenna/coax/ground lead nonsense? Oh yeah the ground lead thing...shouldn't the organization focus on establishing with the FCC a permanent definition to "ground lead" so as to resolve this on-going now for years definition problem of what exactly a ground lead is to the authority that regulates our operations?
Do any of you really think the NAB or anyone else is going to address these Part 15 rule issues for us? Or will it be ALPB or whatever the name is this week?
It's called setting priorities. I think there are far more pressing priorities for the organization to tackle than being concerned about how programs get distributed to organization members when those programs can be obtained by the producing website or their podcast pages etc etc.
Adding more useless work ends up in useless results. And so far I see very little achieved besides name bouncing, and that may not even be a set in stone name either! :/
An international effort? Well then perhaps the name should be International Association of Low Power Broadcasters.
RFB
You nailed it RFB.
The big job is getting part 15 rules upgraded so that we have greater reach for serving a realistic area with our programs. That's absolutely number one.
Since you understand that, stay in. Don't quit.
I think the group (including me) has been pussy-footing around because we aren't sure how to do the real thing. We are establishing a base. Newborn babies don't know how to eat.
So, give us your leadership and direct the ship on course toward the real objective.
You are a super knowledgeable radio engineer, and you have built some beautiful radio outlets which serve as major models to part 15 starters.
Please lock on and be part.
" think the group (including me) has been pussy-footing around because we aren't sure how to do the real thing. We are establishing a base. Newborn babies don't know how to eat."
Everything has a beginning, no matter how humble it may be. I doubt any of us, including me, ever was a member of NAB and would have expertise in that level of administrative experience.
However, as a team, as a group, we all can learn that curve and bring it together to form an even more stronger machine to address the Part 15 issues. I am sure that some of us have management experience, regardless if it is in radio or whatever. The skill can be useful and applied in the organization.
"So, give us your leadership and direct the ship on course toward the real objective."
What I would be doing is having everyone in the organization download a copy of the eCFR Part 15 rules and study them. Become familiar with each rule, each sub part and provisions, additions and history. Also keep up to date with any FCC ruling or proposal, regardless if its for Part 15, 73, or timbucktoo.
The first task is to get to know what your up against. Recon so to speak..get to know thy enemy..for lack of other words. That way we all have a good knowledge base to work with and begin to develop some proposals to make changes to those extreme limits in Part 15.
What I would like to see is a Part 15 addition to the existing Part 15 rules that focuses on "community broadcasting". The rules currently pretty much cover unintentional radiators, though intentional radiator rules are there, the whole is really not focused on the sense of "broadcasting" as we operate as "broadcasters" and not some toaster oven with a wireless temperature probe that tells you on your iPad your toast is burnt.
That's what I would like to see the organization do. Or things like that example I just gave. We all know what we want in Part 15 and what could work and what wont work. So why don't we use our skills and knowledge for something useful and realistic?
RFB
You just said it.
You just said it all.
So be there when we meet this Friday and put it to us.
We are david, with a small d, against GOLIATH, in all caps.
But it worked before, and could work again.
I was on my phone before, so couldn't really get into the details of my previous post.
There are obviously those here on this Forum that are disgruntled or 'disgusted' or other varying degrees of negativity with Part 15, this new group, existing radio stations, the FCC - you name it.
I see this new group as a positive venture - it's the only way to get something done. For something, as opposed to being against something. And it certainly isn't U.S, centric - 3 of the 7 participants from the last meeting were NOT from the U.S. (2 from Canada, one from New Zealand).
Focusing on changing the Part 15 rules would be very narrow in scope and meaningless to a large number of current and potential members. It could perhaps be taken on by a subgroup of the main group, but we aren't there yet, in terms of organization and membership.
Next, I would ignore the naysayers, as they aren't contributing anything to the group in any event. During the last meeting, we all discussed the importance of operating legally under whatever rules were imposed by our various countries and regulatory bodies. That included copyright as well. And that's good enough for me.
Finally, I say, if you're interested, attend the meetings. Interact with the participants and argue your points. It's one thing to make a post on a Forum - it's quite another to interact with your peers, including the ones that you are casting doubt on. At the end of the day, you can certainly have any opinion you want, but if you aren't willing to defend it, face to face so to speak, it means less than nothing to me.
I don't think anyone is threatening to quit because things don't go any way - at least, that was not my intention. I'm open to a great many things - as long as they are positive and doable and international. I just don't see myself wasting my time.
[Posted from an RV in Calgary - I hope to get back to Vancouver this Friday in time to attend the informal meeting]
Ok gents I have been working so hard that I have no time to deal with Radios for a few months.
Now I am being accused of breaking a law ?
You win dude , I just took down my antenna and I am not taking part in my station any more.
So long and congrats to the guys who have zero empathy for anyone else.
The network is now left to Bob MRAM .
You guys work it all out and best of luck.
I have a ATU for sale for $200 plus shipping.
I will also be glad to sell my Brand new mixer and compressuers and all the rest of the stuff I have for my station.
send me an email to [email protected] so I can send the stuff to you.
Thanks for nothing to those who have done what they have done.
PS if none of you want the ATU and stuff , they will be on ebay soon.