Just a thought here.. (I really should have already expressed this thought)
Wouldn’t you agree the term “Low Power Broadcasting” generally refers to a different creature than Part 15?
IE:
Just a thought here.. (I really should have already expressed this thought)
Wouldn’t you agree the term “Low Power Broadcasting” generally refers to a different creature than Part 15?
IE:
Low-power broadcasting – Wikipedia:
The terms “low-power broadcasting” and “micropower broadcasting” (more commonly “microbroadcasting”) should not be used interchangeably, because the markets are not the same. The former term is more often used to describe stations who have applied for and received official licenses
Doesn’t it seem more appropriate and accurate for the references to be;
Micro-Power Broadcasters, Flea-Power Broadcasters, or Part 15 Broadcasters?
Symantics
Interesting observation. However if we really want to break it down accurately, Part 15 was never intended for any sort of broadcasting or micro-broadcasting or flea-power broadcasting.
It’s original intent was to allow for wireless links between radios and phonograph players.
Given the fact that “Low Power Broadcasting” is mostly referenced in the industry to “LPFM”, it can be argued that the correct reference to use for OUR operations would be micro broadcasting or the flea-broadcaster.
Then again, I’ve also found most of these LPFM’s do not like to be referenced as “Low Power Broadcasters”, despite the fact they operate with low power levels compared to their commercial counterparts. And rarely will you ever hear these stations call themselves Low Power Broadcasters, officially or privately. It’s always “LPFM”, or Non-Commercial Broadcasting. And there is no LPAM…yet. 🙂
RFB
Interesting observation.
Interesting observation. However if we really want to break it down accurately, Part 15 was never intended for any sort of broadcasting or micro-broadcasting or flea-power broadcasting.
It’s original intent was to allow for wireless links between radios and phonograph players….
“..The intent of Part 15 is to provide the radio enthusiast with an opportunity to experiment with radio, and to entertain friends or neighbors within a very limited communication range…
The Commission never intended that Part 15 be used to establish a low power broadcast facility to service an entire community.” –FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION, VINCENT J .MULLINS, Secretary. (January 30,1974)
Still, “intent” is not synonymic with the actual letter of the law.
But anyway, the point is that “low power broadcasters” generally refer to a different league than our own… No??
So it just seems inappropriate to refer to ourselves as such.
By the way, the above quote was first referenced here at http://www.part15.us/node/3214
Specifics
1974 isn’t 1934, the year of the communications act unfortunately.
However the point even within that 1974 quote points out the same point I made, Part 15 was not ever intended for actual community broadcasting in mind when it was put in place.
But what has happened is a transformation, which happens to anything with changing times.
The ONLY thing that really has not changed are the rules, or letter of the law, with the changing times, in as far as the transformation of what took place over the last 50 or so years within the realm of license free radio.
Part 15 LEFT OUT that change and never added to it the concept of broadcasting to reach an audience under Part 15.
But it is a FACT today, that is the case. Hence, isn’t it MORE appropriate for the rules to change with the times rather than argue or debate the flaws that do exist in the letter of said law?
Cure the problem, not fragment it further into a finer mess is my motto.
RFB
The Low Power Category
Rich Powers raises a question that also passed through my mind. He is right that some people have made a distinction between licensed low power, such as LPFM, and unlicensed low power.
There is also a category called LPAM, mainly a proposal that has been made to the FCC to allow an AM equivalent to LPFM, toward which the FCC has been unresponsive. There was a website devoted to that cause
http://www.lpam.net/
Now, as you see, that website is under reconstruction and I no longer see reference to an LPAM Association once mentioned there. But, interestingly enough on the new revised site I see mention of a Low Power AM Radio Network, so we may want to explore to see if that is a duplicate of what we are doing.
It would also be quite true that many so-called pirates are unlicensed low power broadcasters, so we have a lot of company in the low power realm.
But RFB is correct to point out that we are dealing with semantics, where these definitions are in perpetual flux as the words are made to apply to a variety of situations.
Part 15 is low power for sure. Maybe the licensed low powers should be called Medium Power.
Checks And Balances
“But, interestingly enough on the new revised site I see mention of a Low Power AM Radio Network, so we may want to explore to see if that is a duplicate of what we are doing.”
I remember reading about their past efforts with a LPAM service proposal.
However I believe the NALPB is more than a mere “network”.
Our intent is to do more than just exchange program material between stations or become a repository for programs.
At least that is how I see it.
RFB
The Main Thing Is the Name Thing
As long as we use a different name than the other organization uses, we are good to go.
If the other organization is duplicating some of the same services, we could consider a merger.
Or, they could become a member of NALPB.
What’s In A Name…
I spoke with Lefty about this shortly after our first NALPB meeting. I asked if he felt there would be confusion between licensed LPFM and unlicensed Part 15 with regard to our groups name. I suggested NAMPB (National Association of Micro Power Broadcasters) as an alternate. Could be cute and use NAuPB.
Lefty felt “Low Power” was a good fit.
Perhaps this will be discussed at our next meeting.
An Observation..
I’m sittin’ back readin’ and it dawned on me. Maybe ya’ll could become more creative if ya decide on what band you’re workin’ on..
It seems that most are thinkin’ AM. Is anyone even considerin’ FM with all of the restrictions it has? Are there other bands ya’ll have in mind? Just curious..
Bands
A strong word to 12vman
You are right that FM has its restrictions, but we do have projects for bands other than AM medium wave.
For example, there is our Big Talker shortwave transmitter project, which allows an exceptionally high power level at 13.560mHz shortwave.
http://www.kdxradio.com/bigtalker.com
ALSO we have the as yet incomplete Long Wave project, named “Deep Voice,”, where we are allowed 1-Watt with a 50-foot antenna.
http://www.kdxradio.com/deepvoice.html
The old FCC LPAM petition
It had been a long time since that petition was filed. Here’s a copy of it:
http://recnet.com/fcc/RM-11287_revised.pdf
I’ve been kicking around the LPAM idea for a long time, and am one of the signers of this particular document (I’m on page 5.)
There’s really no $ in LPAM, and that’s probably why the FCC really never gave it much attention.
Thanks, Carl..
I guess I wasn’t seein’ the whole picture. I appreciate the clarification..
I just figured that ya’ll was focused on the bands that most folks can/do actually listen to, not the ones that most of the general public isn’t even aware of, or have the equipment to listen. Not everyone is a ham radio operator or even interested in the unknown Part-15 bands. Just thinkin’ like Joe Public, I guess..
A Natural
“Not everyone is a ham radio operator or even interested in the unknown Part-15 bands. Just thinkin’ like Joe Public, I guess..”
Right on target too. Most of the public that listens to radio are tuning the MW band and FM band. The others are pretty much specialty bands as you mentioned.
But the neat thing about this organization is that it can bring awareness to the public about those other bands, and where to find the radios to tune in.
A good example of awareness distribution would be something like a topic discussed on Carl’s Low Power Hour program, distributed across the organization’s program exchange network, new people hearing about low power radio and other interesting things to tune in on the other bands etc.
This is grass roots thinking folks. Good point 12vman.
RFB
More Thoughts on Naming
I have not dismissed what Rich Powers has said, nor moved beyond a similar question asked by MRAM…….questioning the current name of the new NALPB.
We have not tended to think of ourselves as “micro broadcasters”, I’m not sure who invented that term. There are micro breweries.
I find the present name uncomfortable to announce, as I have as a tag on the LPH…”This is the NALPB.” Is both clumsy to say and not the kind of phrase that a listener will remember.
But I have a rule of thumb in business meetings….. I try not to bring up a problem unless I also propose a solution……. and I don’t have a name to suggest.
Confusing The Confusion
I also do not dismiss Rich’s point, or MRAM’s point. Both are valid and do need to be discussed.
However confusing or cumbersome the current name may be, it does have it’s own unique distinction, and though others might have a different opinion, to me NALPB, short for National Association of Low Power Broadcasters, and the name itself, has a level of high degree professionalism within the sound of the name.
The term “micro” or “flea”, again in my own opinion, does not give the name any sort of credible standing from the professional prospective. Changing “Low Power” to “Micro Power” or “Flea Power” might be reason for pause in how much attention we go for, and what interpretation of others have of our organization.
Are they serious? Are they just a bunch of radio tinkerers playing around pretending to be something real?
I mean so much these days is linked to interpretation and first impressions.
Perhaps the confusion can be minimized if we clarify our organizations intent and goals, and most important of all, our never ending mission to return radio to the people where it once was.
RFB
Response to RFB
Your comment RFB caused my thinking to shift based on what you said, but it has shifted farther than you were suggesting.
I now believe we should disassociate ourselves with the term “low power”. To me, admitting low power in the name is no different than saying “mini” or “micro.”
Someone suggested “part 15 broadcasters”. That might be a temporary resting place until we have better.
Oh, wait a minute. What would happen to “The Low Power Hour”….
Would it become “The Part 15 Hour?”
“Problem, we have a Houston!”
NALFB – NAIB – NAPFB – NACB – NAHB – NALAB
National Association of License Free Broadcasters
National Association of Independent Broadcasters
National Association of Part Fifteen Broadcasters
National Association of Community Broadcasters
National Association of Home Broadcasters
National Association of Local Area Broadcasters
Another Angle..
Community Radio Advocates..
The Hometown Radio Group..
The Progressive Hobbyist Group..
National Association of Progressive Hobbyists..
Them Thar Hills
The 12vman mentioned hillbilly and I started wondering about the origin of that expression. Here it is in The Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins.
A hillbilly is a rustic from the hills.
You…..you, reading this….. look up “rustic” and get back to us.
The American Dialect Dictionary by Harold Wentworth defines hillbilly as “an uncouth countryman, especially from the hills.”
Uncouth? That can’t be right. Part 15 people are nothing if not couth.
The earliest examples of its use come from the turn of the last century and from the vicinity of Arkansas.
Well, there you are. Say no more.
Then its use spread throughout the South and it became especially common in Kentucky and West Virginia.
The problem I’m having is that 12vman is in Mineral City, Ohio. We have other members in Ohio. They don’t have hills there.
As for me, I’m actually a valley billy. All directions are uphill from here.
I’ma “Hi-Tech” Hillbilly!
I actually have indoor plumbing! And that GPS thingie says 1184′ at my front door and 926′ at the end of the driveway, me thinks me gotsa hill.. 😉
Hmmm.. ” a. Lacking refinement or elegance; coarse.”.. “simple, artless, or unsophisticated” “Of, relating to, or typical of country life or country people.”
Boy.. Don’t wanna be a “Rustic-Billy”..
Some Great Alternatives
Those are really good alternatives. I am also in agreement with Lefty, the current voted name “fits” with not just what we do with our micro stations, but is technically correct in more aspects to “flea power” than even 10 watts, though the same can be said 10 watts technically applies compared to 10Kw or more.
I think, and this time though the first was NOT a misspell, the semantics are just something that has to be worked out and understood to justify a name change, at least that’s just how I feel about what we have developed, what we can and will develop and what kind of future will be forged from our efforts.
The alternatives are indeed really good. Somehow, I don’t know if it is because I had said something before or what, they still seem to have a lesser degree of impact, or “catch”.
Maybe I’ve been sitting in the middle of the influx of flea power for too long and I’m just out of my phase lock mind loop. Hey 12vman, got any of that hillbilly homebrew bash and smash wash er down stuff? 😉
RFB
Rustic Sports Fans
The definition of rustic, presented by 12v man, sounds like all the guys at the sports bar.
Top ‘O the World…
I’m in Summit County, Ohio. Sounds like a place with altitude.
The Metro park near here is “Top Of The World” park.
When a weather front moves in it generally splits at Summit County and goes around us.
I guess we gots us a hill too!
Don’t like the weather? Climate.
They Say
Out here in Wyoming, they say if you don’t like the weather, just wait 10 minutes. 😉
RFB
NALFB
Mram’s suggestion of “National Association of License Free Broadcasters” really hits an accurate core to me.. NALFB.
Yeah. personally, I like that. There’s no misconceptions or confusion about it.
In my opinion it’s beautiful and even elegant.
Certainly something to be considered.
NAPFB ain’t bad either…
NAPFB ain’t bad either…
The term “micro” or “flea”,
The term “micro” or “flea”, again in my own opinion, does not give the name any sort of credible standing from the professional prospective. Changing “Low Power” to “Micro Power” or “Flea Power” might be reason for pause in how much attention we go for, and what interpretation of others have of our organization.
RFB, as much as I respect and usually agree your take on things, I really disagree with your view on this one. I go along with Carl’s response to your comment.. Which, in essence, as I perceive it, is saying that by presenting a clear and precise presentation of our “micro” status does not demean our credibility – but rather actually strengthens it.
In my eyes, to call our selves “low power” connects us with an existing group which we do not genuinely a part of.
In a sense.. ahh.. I don’t know.. not sure how to clearly express what my gut is telling me..
But there is a lot of truth in the expression “Less is more.”
I don’t think we should connect ourselves with a – phrase (in lack of a better word), that is already associated with another established manifestation.
It seems by doing so will actually undermine our credibility.
We have to call it what it is.
Feel Free
Rich Powers hit my free-throw dart-board this morning with National Association of License Free Broadcasters.
That word “free” might have special appeal in today’s world of prohibitions, bans, permissions, restrictions and penalties.
It’s even a cheerful sounding word. I feel a song coming on.
We’re freeeeeee.
Should we re vote on this
Should we re vote on this ????
Let me know.
Instant Feedback
Hello Santa Cruz!
Just one guy here, but I suggest keeping the discussion open until the meeting and then ask the participants if the name should be put to a vote.
Also, just one member speaking, but whatever name is chosen by the team, that is the name I will accept, even if it stays the way it is now and doesn’t change.
You’re not in a family until you have criticisms about how the family does things.
just leave it national
just leave it national association of low power broadcasters. it will cover everything from part 15 to any future low power broadcast services and we can even bring lpfm into the group as members and be an advocate for those stations.
we will have more instant credibility doing that as well.
Exactly
“it will cover everything from part 15 to any future low power broadcast services and we can even bring lpfm into the group as members and be an advocate for those stations.”
BINGO!!!
Couldn’t have said it better!
RFB
to quote james doohan aka:
to quote james doohan aka: scotty: when you over think the plumbing it’s easier to stop up the drain
or more simply…
keep it simple stupid!!!!
Uprise of the Names
The naming game may be over for the moment, but I thought of one that I thought I’d put into the hat simply because it contains “the message”:
The Part 15 Improvement Association
If Ya Think About it..
We do “Broadcast” but it’s really just a “Hobby”. It’s not commercial. In most cases, “Yardcasters”, per se. It can be very technicial if one wants to really get deep into it or it can be just plain fun actually spreading your own content around the house or maybe getting a neighbor or two to listen in on what you’re doing..
The “Fun” is what peaks interest. We need to attract some new blood to our hobby. The highly technicial stuff can actually chase folks away! A simple approach is needed, and a title to gain enough interest to give us a chance to explain ourselves in our endeavor. (I say “Our”, “Ours” and “Us” being a hobbiest myself and would love seeing more folks getting involved.) Would ya’ll welcome a hillbilly in yer organization? 😉
An item as simple as one of these could start the “Fever”.. Encourage It! JMO..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CAR-Radio-FM-Transmitter-Accessory-For-MP3-MP4-APPLE-IPOD-ZUNE-SANSA-FUZE-/390451379295?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item5ae8b73c5f
We Are Too
I think we are all hillbillies, 12vman.
Anyway, I am a city bumpkin.
Change Is Good
Change is inevitable. Question is…is the change absolutely necessary or is it for a convenience, added strength or giving in?
At this point I see no reason why the name should be changed because some in the industry “may” be confused between one and another. I don’t think the issue would be with the general public, but with people within the industry itself.
So what! Why should this organization give in to those who might have a problem with the name who obviously are the ones who have a part in the current state of the industry and why this organization formed in the first place? !!!
Are we going to focus on our mission and goal, or delay progress over semantics and political correctness?
Let me know when this thing is ready to move forward. I don’t like standing still too long when there is work to be done.
RFB
…is the change absolutely
…is the change absolutely necessary or is it for a convenience, added strength or giving in?
Would a name change be for convenience, added strength or giving in?
Well, none of the above really. It would be for distinction.
There is already an established entity of Low Power Broadcasters, and we do not fall into their territory. That’s my whole point, I think it would make us look silly to do so.
RFB, you’re obviously adamant about keeping the name, but it seems doing so could quickly cause a backlash in our credibility shortly down the road.
By no means am I being an opponent, it’s just that I think it would be wiser to use an accurate name.
—–
Here’s another suggestion: NALAB
National Association of Local Area Broadcasters
The Real Deal
“RFB, you’re obviously adamant about keeping the name, but it seems doing so could quickly cause a backlash in our credibility shortly down the road.”
More concerned about the potential for the backlash. What is decided today may have a negative effect tomorrow, and yes I even recognize that can be said about the current name.
And I did title my previous response with “Change Is Good”. Which breaking that down is meant that I am not closed minded to changing that name if that is the better decision for the long term goals of the organization.
The only puzzling thing here is that this current name, forget who came up with it, was suggested quite some time before the actual meeting took place and the name voted on and accepted days later after the suggestion is posted where everyone read it. Why was there no red flag raised at that time by anyone about potential name similarity confusion issues? It was only after the current name was voted on and accepted and a recording of the meeting released did the name raise any concerns.
If I’m being too analytical, by all means tell me to shut up. 😮
RFB
Breakin’ It Down..
What we do is “licence free broadcasting”. If we are a group of people that do broadcast “licence free” and believe in the same thing, we can be considered an “alliance”. If you want nationwide participation, spread the word.. 😉
National Alliance of Licence Free Broadcasters!
or..
Advocates For Licence Free Broadcasting Reform!
or..
Watts Up! The National Licence Free Broadcasting Reform Group..
(Go ahead.. Beat me up..)
A Strong Statement.
A Small point to make .
When this was discussed at the Meeting , we all felt the name was proper and fine.
MRAM and I talked about it for a few mins the day after and He seemed to agree with me that the name was fine.
Now here we are trying to reverse a name for our Network, Yet where were you when the meeting was going on ? You could have voted are even argued against this name.
If you want to have a voice then be at the next meeting and we will vote you in as members .
Then you will have on equil vote as I do.
As the Chair person of this Network , Oh and you can also vote me out if need be, But as the chair I feel we voted on this once already .
Remember I want this to be fair and I am not sure what I see going on is very fair.
The Next meeting will be your chance to argue things like this.
Remember we were there , And I expect if you have something to say or act on you should be there also.
If you are not there for the next meeting , anything said on this forum concerning the Network will not be considered .
Again for the time being the name stays .
The Members voted for it and I am not able nor do I have the power to change it without a vote by the members.
Also from the last meeting , Each new member will be voted in by the Current members.
Consider all I have said here.
Thank you..
How About This…
How about the:
National Intentional Radiators
Or N.I.R.
Oh well. (I’m only kidding you know.)
Bruce, DRS?
P.S. Good luck with everything. I’ll
be checking in.
Noted Lefty, and valid.
Noted Lefty, and valid.
Predawn Yawn
Probably the NALPB should draft some by-laws, a set of rules and regulations that determine what the rules are within the organization.
All formal corporations, commercial and non-commercial, have by-laws.
A sample set of by-laws can probably be found online somewhere.
I agree Carl , I am looking
I agree Carl , I am looking at a special meeting this week before the official meeting this Friday .
I will be sending out emails tomorrow .
Also should the meeting
Also should the meeting happen it will be recorded as all our meetings will be recorded.
Still Technically Held Back
The first time I visited the Team Speak website I fell into a trance and took a nap.
But I tell myself that all of the members on the first meeting were able to figure out how to make Team Speak work, so I should be able to figure it out.
I’ll do another try.
More Great Points
“There is already an established entity of Low Power Broadcasters, and we do not fall into their territory. That’s my whole point, I think it would make us look silly to do so.”
True that there is an established entity of low power broadcasters. However this entity never adopted the words “Low Power Broadcasters” as an official title of that entity or use those three words within a title for that entity.
Come to think of it, I do not believe that there would be any significant level of confusion as to who and what the organization is and all about with the current name. In fact, I firmly believe that the current name will make the understanding and acknowledgement of the organization that much more easier to understand what it is and what it is all about.
“By no means am I being an opponent, it’s just that I think it would be wiser to use an accurate name.”
No, not an opponent, how about a very observant individual that raised a valid point. Unless things are examined closely there may be something overlooked.
Part of the organizations mission is to listen to people and consider their ideas and concerns. Well that is exactly what is being done right here right now with the name concerns. I must however fully agree with Lefty and it is not because I came up with the name and that I am hell bent on making sure the organization keeps that name. I agree with the chair’s point because the entire time prior to and during the meeting there were plenty of opportunities to raise concerns that could have been brought to the meeting and considered before the vote was taken and the name adopted.
And I also feel that if the name needs to be changed, it should be changed for good reason for the organization itself, not to make things easier for people to figure out what the name means.
An example. Two days ago I was talking to a friend about the organization and in the discussion I had mentioned “National Association of Broadcasters”. Now that name has been around for decades and is so entrenched in the world of broadcasting that broadcasting itself would be naked without it. Yet my friend, who has been involved with media for several years including radio and television, had no idea what that name was or meant.
I think that the only confusion that may arise would be from those who are familiar with the engineering aspects of broadcasting..ie the technical parameter of current LPFM’s and linking that to the three words “Low Power Broadcaster”. Makes sense doesn’t it? Sure it does.
But you see..they do not use those three words, unofficially or officially. More so it is thrown in during conversation or a footnote.
I believe that if there even is any confusion over the organizations name, it would be very limited to a very few for a very short time, by which after awhile the confused will slide right on in easily and fully understand why those three words are contained within the organization name.
Part of our mission in the organization is to listen to people and to bring back good radio. And that is what we are doing, and are going to do.
And I will throw this in just because it crossed my mind last night.
If the current name is shaking the ground this early in the game, that tells me that this organization will become a “mover and shaker” for the people as well as for our stations.
The name itself is already moving and shaking things.
RFB