"Why did they even give you a power supply if the darn thing don't work. What crooks these guys are. "
Please tell me that is supposed to be sarcasm! He obviously has a defective power supply.
"And to boot people think the Transmitter came from Portage, Michigan in which it does not. Its a Chinese knock off of the Signstek CZE-T200 sold on Amazon for FAR LESS."
A "Chinese knock off" of another product made in China? I would say the Signstek is the cheap knock off. Its cheaper and smaller, plus it is not "FCC certified", for whatever that's worth these days.
IAC, my point is that people buying these transmitters are not "Part 15 hobbyists" looking to "get a station on the air". All I am doing is housecasting MP3s, podcasts and computer streaming. I am always on an unused frequency, which for years has been 107.9.
The funny part of that freq is that now there is a local commercial FM that is advertised as 100.3, but is now bleeding thru on 107.9 as well as being on 100.3. I don't know if they are testing a new transmitter for that freq, or are just having problems. But I have moved to 105.3 to avoid them.
I have been doing this daily for about 7 years, since I got the original "gold edition" Whole House FM. No one has complained. The transmitters do not splatter thru to other frequencies. I am only transmitting music and various podcasts.
If my neighbors were doing the same thing I would not notice, because no one listens to radio these days. Certainly very few are tuning around the dial to see what is on. Everyone is busy listening to their own MP3s/streaming/whatever.
If they listen to radio at all it is to 1 or 2 stations they are familiar with. Even if they heard my transmitter, there is nothing to complain about. It sounds like any other station - music and/or people talking. I also run it over night with OTR radio shows. It is nice to sleep by. Again, nothing to complain about.
Let me add that I am no novice when it comes to housecasting. I started with a Talking House, about 10 years ago. These CLEARLY put out a signal that is way over the limit, and no one seems to care about that either. But its sound quality is definitely lacking.
I also had an SSTRAN 3000, but sold it on eBay a couple years ago. I was raising cash for a new laptop.
My current AM transmitter is the Spitfire MK II, available on eBay. It works fine and comes fully assembled and ready to go, for about $20 more than a kit SSTRAN. It also has a "secret" setting that greatly increases its output. I stumbled on that while playing with the DIP switches, but that's another topic. 🙂 At the normal setting it easily covers my house with high quality sound.
My intention here was never to offend anyone. I just get riled up when I see a product being trashed as "junk", "terrible" and a "scam" when it clearly is not. I have been using these for years. The Whole House 3.0 may not be "professional" and may be bending some FCC rules, but so what? It is not intended to be "professional". It works extremely well for its intended use - sending a clean, clear signal to radios around your house or in your car, in an easy to use and setup package.
If you don't want to use it, then by all means don't use it. But you are doing a disservice to readers here with this baseless negativity. Personally I would - and have - recommended these to friends. Neither has been disappointed.
Naddy69 I understand and appreciate your worldly (realistic) view about the whole thing, but here at part15(dot)us we have hallway monitors and palace guards always pointing long fingers at their perception of the boundaries imposed by the rules. We tend to be knee jerk reactors.
After reading this incoming data for several years I have become convinced that the tipping point is a complaint.
If no one notices you or bothers to complain, life remains a golden and happy experience.
I have always wondered what would happen if I complained about my own station. Might learn something that way.
Have you heard the one about a guy in Oregon who was disemboweled over a long ground lead on his certified AM antenna?
It is rumored that one of our members played a key role in that bring down, and I am mentioning it now as a gesture to open the floor for the story to be told.
If you want to discuss the Oregon situation please start a new thread so this one doesn't drift off topic.
Thanks,
Neil
Yes these guys at the Christmas town around Frankinmooth, Michigan has been using the Whole House FM transmitter for YEARS too and nothing happened to them either which is a surprise since its close to a metro city. Yet nothing has happened. You would have exoected a Ham operator to have turned them in because you can pick up that transmitter for 1/4 mile on a portable Radio which is Digital. Plus Tim mentioned that NOT USING THE SECRET HIGH POWER MODE (THE LIGHTNING BOLT) still was over the legal limit. My suggestion is that if you use this transmitter at all be far away from a Metro city. Stay clear from Police states like Florida, CT, NY, NJ, Washington DC. Now if you are out there in WV, NC, IA, redneck areas you could get away with it. Now note this site does not condone Piracy but its an example why some may never get a NOUO and are happy broadcasting right along with the transmitter. Now when I heard the Frankinmooth, Mi unit it sounded good and I did not notice bleed to other parts of the dial. I'd love to have gotten real close to it to see if it bled my Digital boom box. It may be cleaner than the SainSonic AX-05B for all I know. Unless I had one to play with and compare I'll never know. There are ways to lower the power. A shorter wire instead of the long wire would do it if you feel you need to lower the field strength. It also proves there is a fudge factor before enforcement is done. What that is seems to differ from inspector to inspector.
That's BS. Then what's the point of certification?
That the Whole House 3.0 does what it says it does. It nicely and easily broadcasts pretty nice sound throughout my house. It's very easy to use. Yup. It does what it should, and it does what most typical consumers want it to do.
Sadly it does it illegally. With the antenna horizontal it's many times the legal limit. I guess that's fine to some. It's still illegal. By simply plugging in an audio cable the output jumps to many many many times the legal limit. The exact same thing happens when you plug in the external power cable, only with an even more dramatic increase in power output. I guess these facts do not warrant any negativity.
Their own test report submitted to the FCC states the usb port has been disabled. I can only imagine it was discovered that with a cable plugged in, output skyrocketed. So they had to disable external power to get a unit to pass certification. Here's a letter then sent to the FCC:
https://fccid.io/document.php?id=2117099
So you can see why when my test of the power adapter showed no power input, I readily believed the port was infact disabled. Turned out, however that the power supply they included didn't in fact function and I was able to power the transitter through that port with a different power supply. Albeit with output power many times over the legal limit.
It looks like in 90% of cases the FCC itself never looks at a device to be certified. They accept the testing from a "qualified" lab.
It does seem to me that if you are using a certified unit, as purchased, that the user should not be liable for legality. Clearly not so if there is evidence of modification or other tampering to the transmitter of course. CLearly the average guy isn't going to be able to measure field strength. The FIM-71 is the cheapest way to do it you can get used ones from about $2000 up to about 4 times that, but one for sale is a pretty rare item. But even if you have one, it's not a simple matter of turning it on a looking. Setup and operation takes some time and effort. You don't just flip it on and have a look.
Later today I'm going to set up the WH 3.0 in the middle of my house, like a typical person might do. Then go out on the sidewalk in fromt of my house with the FIM-71 and see what I get. This woujld involve going through the front livingroom walls/window and the front porch windows. All wood and glass construction here. Just to see what I get. I'm betting when set up in a house the signal doesn't get very far outdoors.
But basically this is a unit that is illegal in all modes of operating, and far more so on external power or if you actually apply audio to it or connect ANY cables to it.
Tim in Bovey
What you can do is send your information to the FCC Laboratory along with your sample and have tem test it. If they request a sample from the manufacturer it will be "golden."
What does the part 15 label on the Whole House 3 FM transmitter say? Does it include the FCC ID or does it just say a generic “This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.” Is it molded into the case, is it printed on the case, is it a sticker, or is it something else?
Oet63rev.pdf has some pretty specific rules on how a part 15 compliant transmitter must be labeled.
The instruction manual has the "This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC rules....." but it is not on the device itself. The FCC ID number (as well as the Canadian number) are printed on the box and on the tranmitter itself, FCC ID: XOAWHFM3. Same as the number on all the FCC paperwork filed, paperwork which also includes the statement that the mini-USB port has been disabled and serves no purpose. The same paperwork which states the transmitter operates on batteries only. But then it does work on AC, 12V and USB power (once you get a working power supply, unlike the one that came with the transmitter)
I noticed in the "accessories" link wdcx provided that shows all the accessories included with the transmitter, one was left out. Also included in the box is a wire antenna! It's about 11 feet long and includes a note that says it will increase range and is not intended to be used in the USA. Seemed a bit odd to me, since one of the requirements for certification is that the provided legal antenna is not supposed to be able to be changed to something illegal by the user. Then, they include an antenna that clearly makes it illegal. I did take one field strength reading with the wire antenna attached, which brought the FS at 3 meters to 180 mV/m which is 180,000 uV/m. Which is how many times over the limit of 250uV/m? That's 720 times over the legal FCC USA limit. Add to that a power cable or audio cable for a counterpoise and I can only imagine what the output would finally be.
I also noticed, looking at these on ebay today, they don't all appear to be the same. The one I received, the antenna connector appears to be the end of a left handed silver bolt. It is NOT an SMA connector. But I saw some pictured on eBay that appeared to have an actual brass threaded SMA connector with a hole for a center pin from the antenna. This one has no center pin in the antenna, no hole, and no connector. Just a left handed end of a bolt.
Well, I'm off to set up the FIM-71 in the front yard to see what kind of juice I get in the front yard, from this transmitter running in the center of my livingroom. Result to follow.
Tim in Bovey
First of all, I don't consider these to be any sort of scientific tests -- I don't know the attenuation factor of my walls and windows, and I didn't even measure any distances. And remember that in NO configuration, as received, is the Whole House 3.0 transmitter that I purchased legal. See original post.
With the transmitter set up in the center of my livingroom and the FIM-71 in the front yard (probably about 30 feet away, with the living room wall and front window, and the front porch walls and window between it and the yard, and all the stray stuff all over the place). With the transmitter simply turned ON and NOTHING attached (no audio cable, no power cable, no nothing) and the little black "rubber duck" supplied attached, I read 112 uV/m. Now, at first glance you'd think that's way under legal -- but remember, legal is measured at 3 meters with nothing between the send and receive antennas. So, no, it's not. I then plugged in an audio cable connected to an ipod. It is now operating as a typical person would operate it. Plain ol' 1/8 mini stereo plug on each end of a cable between the transmitter and an ipod, with it's supplied antenna in a vertical position, sitting on a stool in my living room. The reading in the same spot in the front yard jumped to 2047 uV/m. So, not only is it illegal when just ON, it's multiple times the legal limit the second you plug a cable into it. Nearly exactly the same result when plugging in the power cable rather than the audio cable. I didn't think to check if it got even stronger with both cables inserted (power cable as well). Rats. Readings were nearly the same with the antenna flipped over to the horizontal position showing me that polarization isn't as serious as the distance increases, at least not in this test. It was a bit lower, but not outside the margin of error of the meter.
Then, I thought what the heck, I'll quickly move to the street in front of the house. If an FCC dude was strolling by with HIS meter, what would HE likely read. At the street about another 10 feet out, WITH the audio cable plugged in and playing, I had 855 uV/m. Even the most basic FCC dude would see this was well over and realize that if he was at three meters it would be WAY over.
So, it's sort of difficult to check what range might be with a legal transmitter as this one does not, under any possible configuration, put out a legal signal. (See original post). This one did manage to sound OK about 2 houses away then I lost it. That's with a quick run down the block with the Tecsun.
While the transmitter was running in it's usual use position (vertical antenna, audio cord playing music from ipod) I quick drove down the street. Made it about 400 feet and lost it. Remember now, this is putting out about 10 times the legal limit. Then I ran in the house, moved the transmitting outfit up to a window on the second floor to see if height helped. No. I lost the signal in the exact same spot down the road straight from the house. So in this case that didn't help.
Hopefully the Decade CM-10 next week.
TIB
A test I never thought of untiil just now. I wonder if the WH 3.0 might be legal with NO antenna attached to it?
I'm going to try it when I have the equipment set up to test the CM-10 next week (I hope).
TIB
One thing that is very fascinating is that even though the field strength readings are so clearly above the 15.239 limit, the signal doesn't go very far.
At the same time we recall that 200' is the common "rule of thumb" guideline always being mentioned, so maybe double that distance (400') is a symptom of being illegal, even though 400' isn't very much.
Trying to decide on a power increase worth asking for is turning out to be a real puzzler.
We have the values right here to prove in Tim's tests. If he also tests it with a spectrum analyzer and no spurs or possible interference would be caused we can ask for at least the very same field strength readings that this transmitter gives out. Maybe ask for what it does on High. At least the Low power mode. Maybe. I'll re read this but he just said how many times over the legal limit this transmitter puts out. And yet you don't see 1,000 NOUO's a day. So we have proof that it would not cause interference by asking for at least those two field strength readings. Either what it puts out on Low or High power. Now we have some concrete tests with the same stuff the FCC uses and that is what we need real proof testing. Thanks Tim I don't know if you realize it or not you gave us a tool and though he didn't tell us to use the Data for the initiative it could be used as such because these transmitters are already out there and used by folks who believe and fully intended to follow the rules to the letter of the law. Now you have something to stand on. The FCC could still say No or Hell No, but you have a leg not just shouting out field strength numbers because you want more. This is something that you can fully prove in the court of law too for you have the Transmitter sample and well Tim has the Patomac FIM-71. And we have Canada two facts of Data. It doesn't hurt to continue to study more however.
Re reading Tim's last post i think we should try 20 X his reading at low power. This should give you at least 800 Ft range maybe a little more with that same sound quality. We could at least try for the 10 X moe 250 X 10 is 2500 uVm @ 3 meters as we have the data for that. It would be a little past Canada's and they have proven nice range with that. Plus it is very interisting how being on the 2nd floor made no difference at this power level as we thought the higher you are the further you go. May not be so with these low levels.