Its a good thing you brought up Emergency situations such as severe weather and such. I desided the other day to go off the air when it was looking like severe weather was near. I even said why I was going off and that listeners should be listening to their local station anyway to see if severe weather is a threat. If we're not required to have the EMS system, we may be required to go off the air during this and maybe instruct the listeners to tune to their local stations. I also like the idea of the announcement transmitter as mine did say on the box announcement transmitter. This would give us some wiggle room just like the Talking House transmitter is. It too can play music since there is a jack on the back of the transmitter. The fact too that some transmitters could have a High Low power setting for when you need to be in announce mode and local mode. Announcement Transmitters should have at least 1mW or 1,000 uVm. We may still have a little static about this but a new classification similar to Canada is a good start to wht we want to achieve. With this at least we can look at the same range AM is currently enjoying legally.
We'll have to see what happens in the coming months as Internet Radio seems to be rising in popularity. Could be something the NAB will worry more about than a few transmitters. Another good point too you mention about the little 1 foot car transmitters? Well they should be in a different category then the in house transmitters we'll be using to broadcast to the masses.
What's this? A kinder, gentler Commisioner O'Rielly? Read this RW article about how O'Rielly comes down on the FCC Enforcement group:
Having read the thing about O'Reilly's latest rant causes me to wonder if he's related to Bill O'Reilly, since they share a knack for saying roily (possible pun) things which exist apart from the world everyone else occupies.
Reading it has expanded my own state of uncertainty and I seriously question whether anything we know has anything to do with all the things we don't know.
The piece says O'Reilly spoke to the FCC's Bar Association... what? A 5-member commission has an exclusive bar association? Could it be comprised of the same 5 people?
Perhaps the ALPB will know what to do.
I don't think that EAS would be required (although who knows what the FCC would think). I was just thinking that the VLPFM license would be an enhanced Part 15 - no regulation of content, but allowing for elevated field strength. I don't think that the casual hobbyist would go for it, but the dedicated ones, sure, or the ones that want to make it into a small or casual business, that would make sense as well. I don't think you're going to make a lot of money at it, but as timinbovey has shown with Part 15 AM, if you can get a listener base, you can at least cover your costs while doing what you love. I know that I was close to covering my costs with my radio station on Bowen Island, and the radio station drew people into my bookstore as well. But both of these examples are of special cases - the first, small town & semi-rural so Part 15 AM can cover the intended coverage area and the second, intended coverage of a ferry lineup so potential listeners all had more sensitive car radios and the Canadian standards FM range was just about enough.
My current range in a more typical urban scenario is a good signal for 200-300 meters to a car radio, and a fringe signal out to about 500 meters (fringe meaning weaker, noisy and frequent dropouts). And that's to a car radio - I doubt if you could hear my signal on an ordinary consumer radio for more than 100 meters, if that. Not exactly a huge coverage area. Obstructions really are a pain, and unfortunately they come more into play the longer range you attempt to have, as there are just more of them (it's relatively easy to get line of sight for, say, 100-200 feet).
I really think that if you're going to go to the trouble of petitioning the FCC for increased field strength for something like a VLPFM, you should make it such that you can get a solid signal out to ordinary radios for maybe 500 meters (so about 4 to 5 times the current Canadian field strength limits, or 5000uv/m at 3 meters. And no antenna restrictions, so you can use an elevated vertical or dipole. You're still dealing with power outputs of well under 1mw, somewhere around .03 milliwatts if my math is correct.
But then, these are my opinions only.
Combinations might be a real good key to success.
Artisan's own case of a radio station in a bookstore is perfect. Such a station might even have audiobooks for parking lot listeners, with ads for books on the shelves.
Radio for ferry boat patrons, people waiting in their cars. Excellent.
A trailer park radio station would be good.
A restaurant radio station.
People waiting for a bridge to lower so they can cross?
Keep the ideas coming.
You know, I am really not trying to take this topic off track, but I remember back when we still had a local outdoor drive in movie theater, they removed those pole speakers and transmitted the stereo audio track on the FM band.
If I left the theater while the end of the movie was still playing, I observed that the signal carried 1 1/2 miles away from the structure that housed the projection booth. Besides covering that range, I now stop and think of all the movies I watched there that were rated R for strong language. Obviously, that language would be carried over any FM receiver within range of that signal. Now, let's take a look at broadcast radio stations. If they drop the F bomb anytime during their broadcast schedule, they are in violation of the mature content rules. I never lived near a drive in theater, but can you imagine Grandma's reaction hearing her radio swearing at her back in the day?
Now that we got the humor out of the way, back to the discussion.
Bruce.
Humor is never out of the way.
These devices did not exist when this rule was implemented. In fact low power FM transmitters that would fit in your hand did not exist.
The tiny dashboard FM's may not have existed when the FCC set the rules for FM, but maybe the FCC knew that they were ABOUT to exist(?)
I attempted to make a new Forum topic but errored out, so I'm putting this here. It is somewhat related to the topic at hand, so hopefully that's OK.
It's astonishing the amount of misinformation that is being spread 'out there' in the Internet about the potential range of Part 15 FM, even by individuals and Forums that obviously should and do know better.
I've run across it on Boards frequented mainly by licensed broadcasters, and to some extent, that is understandable due to ignorance. On one, a participant stated, quite boldly, that any FM signal that went more than 30 feet was illegal, and the operator a pirate. Where he got that information, I have no idea, but I'm sure he read it somewhere.
On another Part 15 site, one which is well known to some of the participants here, it was recently matter of factly stated that any signal that went more than a 'couple of hundred' feet was illegal (obviously borrowing that statement from the FCC directive on Part 15 FM - they use 200 feet to an ordinary consumer radio as a guideline), and that those operators were pirates (or at the very least, wanna be ones).
Both of these statements, of course, are blatantly false - if you do the quite elementary math (which we've done here on this Forum multiple times), it is quite possible for a Part 15 FM signal to theoretically get 600-800 feet of range to a sensitive car radio, line of sight.
When you get statements of potential ranges that are not rigorous, and don't include the type of receiving equipment and its sensitivity (and selectivity), some measure of obstructions between the transmitting and receiving antennas, etc., then you can almost be guaranteed those statements are there for perception and effect, and not in any way shape or form based on science, math or reality. As an example, car radios are much more sensitive than the ordinary consumer radios used by the FCC as guidelines in determining legality.
I've proven that you can actually get those types of ranges by actual experience here in Canada (in terms of experience, I can only speak for myself). Multiply the above calculated ranges by 4 (allowing for the increased Canadian allowable FM field strength) and you get potential ranges of 2400-3200 feet. I managed around 3000 feet, true line of sight (my transmitter at the top of a building on the crest of a hill, overlooking the receiver in a car at the bottom). Ranges where there were obstructions in the way (trees, buildings, etc.) were, of course, much less, but that's not the point. My legal, the Canadian equivalent of Part 15 signal, generated by an Industry Canada certified Decade MS-100, tuned by the manufacturer to meet the 1000uv/m at 3 meter Canadian regulations, could be heard at ranges far exceeding that 'couple of hundred feet' (times 4) pronouncement.
I didn't hide, either. There were newspaper stories on the station in the local Bowen Island paper, as well as a major Vancouver daily, the Vancouver Province. And we were also mentioned on CBC Radio, Canada's national radio network (the equivalent of NPR). I actually found that the Canadian media in general, including broadcasters, were supportive of what we were trying to do, and there was certainly no mention of 'pirate' in any of the press we received.
I also know that Industry Canada visited my island shortly after I began broadcasting, and was measuring something in and around my coverage area. I never had any contact from them, so I can't say for certain it was my signal they were investigating, but since I had never before seen them, and never saw them again (in the 10+ years I was on the island), I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that that was what they were there for. It could have been the publicity of the station that brought them there, but even in Canada, we do have a few grumpy individuals that want to force their own personal agendas on others, regardless of the facts.
In conclusion, reading these blanket range statements makes me wonder whether any of these guys making them, particularly those on other Part 15 sites, have actually tried Part 15 FM out. I suspect not.
And my general philosophy is simple. If you haven't actually tried it out, and have experience with it, then you should be very cautious about opening your mouth.
Using two certified FM transmitters, a spectrum analyzer, and several radios, I have found the same range of results just described by Artisan.
Both a C.Crane FM and a Wholehouse 2.0 transmitter put exactly the same signal level to a spectrum analyzer 20-feet away. This proves that both certified transmitters are calibrated to the same standard.
Using a Grundig Fr-200 portable, which has a poor FM section, signals from either transmitter can best be received in the room containing the transmitters, very spotty in the adjoining rooms, and no reception outdoors in front of the building.
However, using a TECSUN PL-310 the exact same FM signals can be heard everywhere in the house and everywhere out in the yard and some distance up and down the street.
On the car radio the same signals can be heard for about 200-feet in any direction.
IT DEPENDS ON THE RADIO.
Thinking about using these PERSONAL transmitters to broadcast to a general audience seems sort of a stretch, like using a skateboard for transportation, but hope springs endlessly, unlike water.
http://sbe.org//sections/news/fcc_field_office_compromise.php
Bye Bye Tampa Enforcement Office. Nice to see SBE throwing the FCC under the bus.
Exactly, Carl. Stating range numbers without specifying exactly what the conditions are is totally and absolutely meaningless. Even in the FCC bulletin, they state 200 feet to an ordinary radio, and presumably line of sight.
In addition, there are many other conditions that affect range over and above radio sensitivity, antenna, obstructions, etc.
Case in point. We've been in the middle of a heat wave (or what passes for one) here in the Pacific Northwest - temperatures hitting 28 degrees C or so. I've noted that the range of my FM transmitter (received by a good car radio) goes down in the hottest time of the day by 50-100 meters, and similarly goes up early in the morning when it is the coolest (and I'm around to take note of that range) by that same amount. That's not an insignificant amount - about a 40% swing in total (20% from the mean of about 500 meters each way). So obviously something relating to the temperature or perhaps even the time of day is at play.
It would be nice to see some common sense used in such discussions on other sites, but that would mean having an open mind and then actually using it - I don't hold my breath.
500 meters would be around 1/4 to 1/2 mile. it is a good start and if your on ground floor in a wooden house on a rubber duck you'll get that sort of range with less than 1 Watt. Good point about the Whole House FM Transmiter 3.0 and 2.0. In Frankinmooth, Michigan they used one for a Christmas Light Show and I was able to receive it 1/4 mile away on a Digital Car Radio and my Digital Toshiba Walkman was also able to hear it sometimes spoty but Stereo and sometimes faded to Mono before the 1/4 mile. If the house is wooden I can foresee a range of 1300 feet. Now the 500 meter allowance would be around or just past 1/4 mile and to a regular digital Radio is good range. A analog clock Radio or transister FM Radio I'd expect 100 feet. Now the C.Crane FM Transmitter does not put out quite the same range as the Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0. This is why I say if your getting no further than 1/4 mile your probably OK. on a Good Digital Radio. Don't expect that on an analog Radio. And it depends on the Digital Radio. Panasonic has some nice ones, but too I've seen some that had almost zero selectivity. Those Radio's you'll be luckey to hear your station 40-75 feet on the Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0 running -48DBm output. They say the C.Crane runs around -60DBm I don't know but this is what I've heard from some who say they have measured the actual output out of the box and after the hack you can get it up to around -40 DBm and that is really pushing things. After the hack it runs pretty hot because that little chip has a hard time with the step up voltage.
I think both category change and say 500 meter Stereo range is something we should try and push for. Its a realistic distance to shoot for and I think many hobbyests would be happy. When I say this range I'm talking Rubber Duck and not necessarily elevated. There should be no reason you'd have to run a 10 foot antenna to get that range. This way too it doesn't draw attention to the ignorant that hey he or she is running a station Oh God I'm gonna get interference because CBers use to interfere with people and anytime they see a Radio antenna on a house they'll assume your gonna cut in on their reception. So to make things simple lets shoot for Rubber Duck or stock antenna range of 500 meters in our petition to a Digital Radio.
ArtisanRadio, the point you made in post number 40 is exactly what I was saying all along here.
I mentioned something along those lines in post #75 of this topic tiled Rubbed Wrong http://www.part15.us/comment/36810#comment-36810
I am also backing you up on your comment that another part 15 related website falsely claims that any FM part 15 radio station is nothing but a blatant law breaking pirate in defense that AM IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO attitude.
Bruce.