I've been through and around most of the legal items mentioned. From first hand experience I can guarantee you that:
Terms of use ARE in fact enforceable. Assuming the website was set up so you were presented with these terms and had to agree with them before proceeding to use the site. They do in fact change the law of the land. Private contracts change the law of the land millions of times each and every day in this country. Just like a home owners association. You have the right to fly an American flag. Unless you moved into a house with an HOA and you AGREED that you would not fly a flag. You can park a pickup truck in your driveway. UNLESS you signed an HOA that says no pickup trucks allowed in driveways. Same thing with a web site, rental agreement, or anything else. If you don't like the terms, you don't sign up, you don't use that web site, you don't move into that house. These legal issues clog up the courts every day. What you agree to IS in fact enforceable, provided the enforcer has proof that you agreed to it.
An employer does not need a contract. Everything you do for your employer while on "company time" belongs to your employer. It's called "work for hire" and includes any work you do while working. It's a rare instance where this doesn't happen, and for it to not happen you need a contract that specifically states that your work, while working for XYZ company remains your property. Whether it would hold for things you do while not at work depends on your work contract. It's pretty common for engineers, chemists, etc to be under a contract that says anything they come up with anywhere, work, home, in the bathroom, belongs to their employeer. This is common and enforced every day. While at work, what you do belongs to your employer. This comes up in radio a lot, as some DJ will get fired, and then get pissed and insist all his commercials and production work be removed from the airwaves. Sorry, you did that on company time, and it's theirs.
If website terms of use transfer your copyright to the site, and you agree to it, it does. The ONLY way you'd get out of it is if you could prove that you were not made aware of the terms of use. I don't recall if the HB site requires you to hit an "agree" button before you get signed up, but if it does, the terms legally cover you, and you agreed to them, and they are enforceable.
Yes, the second you create something the copyright is yours. The second you sign a contract, click agree on a terms of service, etc you have transferred that copyright to the new owner if the agreement YOU agreed to stipulates it, something that you have the right to do as it's your copyright. And you decided to sell it, license it, share it, or give it away. If you don't want to do that, you don't agree, you don't sign the contract, you keep your copyright. You can also license your copyright, allowing specified use. This happens millions of times a day. A photo is taken. The photographer owne the copyright. He licenses the use of that photo to a company to use that photo, for a specific purpose, perhaps for a specific length of time, in a given circulation, etc. They get to use it, he keeps his copyright. You can certainly grant use to someone for free if you so choose, and still hold the copyright. If the HB terms state you transfer copyright to them, and you agree to it, then you no longer hold the copyright to anything you have posted or shared there, assuming the agreement is enforceable with an "agree" button that you had to click, or some other acknowledgement by you that you have agreed to the terms.
Worth noting, the Facebook terms of use give Facebook the right to use your stuff. However YOU STILL keep the copyright. FACEBOOK has the right to use it. OTHERS who visit Facebook do NOT have the right to use it. So when a site grabs your photo from your FB page to use on their site they HAVE indeed violated your copyright. Posting something on FB or anywhere else on the internet does NOT transfer or cancel your copyright. Unless you've agreed to terms of use that include a transfer of copyright. FB terms do NOT transfer your copyright and you still own them. In fact, nearly every site I've used, be it FB, or other social media sites, photo sharing sites, etc.. expressley state in their terms that your copyright remains with YOU, but you grant THEM specifically the right to use your materials for their own purposes.
To make terms of use enforceable these are the guidelines:
1. provide clear and conspicuous notice of all terms;
2. require counterparties to scroll through to the bottom of the terms and then type in their name in a signature box, click an “I Agree” button or otherwise expressly and actively manifest their assent to the terms;
3. prohibit any use of the website or commencement of the relevant services prior to such express and active manifestation of assent; and
4. periodically have counterparties reconfirm their agreement to the terms."
So, if you had to agree, the terms are enforceable and in effect, and possibly even without an agree confirmation if they're pretty obviously posted.
I've spent a lot of time over the past decades in copyright work, related to broadcasting and the music business, but I also worked as a writer and photographer for several magazines for quite a few years and have been very involved in copyright issues.
TIB
timinbovey stated:
Worth noting, the Facebook terms of use give Facebook the right to use your stuff. However YOU STILL keep the copyright. FACEBOOK has the right to use it. OTHERS who visit Facebook do NOT have the right to use it. So when a site grabs your photo from your FB page to use on their site they HAVE indeed violated your copyright. Posting something on FB or anywhere else on the internet does NOT transfer or cancel your copyright. Unless you've agreed to terms of use that include a transfer of copyright. FB terms do NOT transfer your copyright and you still own them. In fact, nearly every site I've used, be it FB, or other social media sites, photo sharing sites, etc.. expressley state in their terms that your copyright remains with YOU, but you grant THEM specifically the right to use your materials for their own purposes.
Response from MrBruce.
The images stolen from my Facebook page and HOSTED on the Hobbybroadcaster web site, was not granted a relase, or contract of release, or agreed to a license transfer by ME the owner of said photos.
I have saved what is called .MHT files of the Hobbybroadcaster forms related to my station being called a pirate. These files are exact duplicates of the forum, without actaully being logged into the forum to view them.
It still saves the site, photos, avatars and signatures included, in fact viewing them, gives you the experience of actually being in the forum board as me.
I can email those .MHT files to anyone as proof.
.HMT files are possible by going to the sprocket icon in the IE menu bar, look for FILE, then SAVE AS, then it will offer up a name of the page with the .MHT extension.
Once saved, you can open the .MHT file anytime anywhere and see the original web page/ forum page, without being on line or at the original web site.
Bill clearly, offered to fix a photo for Ray, by hosting it on the HB web site, it is the cover photo for WXTZ 87.9 Norwich.
I can not add photos to this topic, but if I could, I would publish a screen shot showing my copy righted photos being published and holding a link to the HB web site, meaning a man who says he abids by part 15 couch...cough...cough is capable of breaking other federal laws.
Thank about that for one moment!
Funny how everything I was accused of wrongfully, this person in public form, accuses someone of breaking a law, when no proof places me in the law breaking catagory, but in the same breath, breaks a law of another type, this to me is someone who contradicts himself.
My part in WXTZ is plain and simple, I provided an on line URL from my house to the internet, this URL was picked up by various Part 15 Decade MS-100 transmitter owners.
They picked up the stream and rebroadcasted it on the FM broadcast band.
The antenna clutter on top of my house he took pictures of as evidence, was 3 UHF television antennas pointed in 3 different market areas and one radio shack VHF LOW, VHF HIGH SCANNER ANTENNA, not no damned DOMINATOR antenna.
Based on information gained by me, Bill knew his member MrBruce was involved in the station, before MrBruce posted an attack against Ray, for calling me insulting names in that topic, but the webterns as they are called, said nothing about that being against forum policy. But me calling Ray a coward for hidding out and not coming into my home so I could prove nothing I was doing was illegal, I got banned from HB.
Witnesses have told me Bill knew, it was my station, because Bill told them it was.
A local part 15 AM station operator told me Bill was going to say that a local was told by me that I said I had a LPFM license to broadcast on 87.9MHz, which I never told anyone that. I was being setup.
This whole matter should be put in the public spotlight, so those who venture into part 15, know someone out there who is susposed to be supporting part 15, someone who complains that legal part 15 stations are being frowned upon by the FCC as "BLATANT PIRATES" is also guilty of playing a part in such activity.
His member Ray F. Burns, helped in promoting this by posting such crap and it being allowed to stand in the forums where any member who has a certain status can view it!!! Thus making me out to look like a law breaking pirate radio station operator to those who read that.
The whole topic carries on to say, "Bill oh God of ours, you have caught MrBruce who was hidding out here as a supposed part 15 radio supporter as being a POS PIRATE RADIO OPERATOR! Thank you oh God of ours"
Yes, anything you say over there, that is not liked ends up in the "Principle's Office" forum section of that forum board.
A man of his age should know better, like him telling me "A man born on July 17 1959 should know better" well look who the law breaker really is in this case, it wasn't me.
I had a right to defend my name against that forum member, but you see who the owner stuck up for. That's his right, but get my stuff off of that web site, you were granted no rights my me, because I did not share those images with HB period!!! Ray F Burns did and he also was not granted any rights by ME the original copy right holder!!!
And by Ray F. Burns sharing them, still gave HB NO legal rights to host them on its web site!!
Bruce.
Art Bell learned the hard way that he was unable to start a new radio show until the "Non-Compete Clause" elapsed from his previous radio job, which was a well-known satellite (XM?) station.
If a good business-manager helps negotiate your contract you might have a decent "Escape-Clause" but I'll guess it wouldn't be included voluntarilly.
If you click "Agree" your next good idea will become property of Carl Blare Industries.
@!$&%*&!
timinbovey stated: "Terms of use ARE in fact enforceable..."
Since neither of us is a lawyer, these are both layman opinions - it would be interesting to get the opinion of a real lawyer.
I've had some experience with contracts and copyright, mainly in the area of software (and working for Microsoft), so my opinions aren't entirely from ignorance. I've also had the benefit of working with a great lawyer from Microsoft. And from that, I learned a few things. The more specific a contract, the easier it is to enforce - so sure, assigning the copyright of specific photos or songs or paintings or whatever is done all the time and is legally binding. But contracts get increasingly difficult to enforce the more general they become (and something like a website Terms of Use is about as general as you can get), and you start getting into the areas of intent and reasonableness (and a lot more).
And when I talked about employers and employees, I was talking about employers writing into a contract that they own everything an employee creates while working for them, even if it's on the employee's own time, and with their own resources. Microsoft did that when I worked for them. And I was told categorically not to worry about it (by that same lawyer), as it was simply not enforceable (he spent most of his time worrying about what WAS enforceable). Sure, if you used company resources and/or time, they had a case for at least partial rights, but otherwise, no way.
I'm not particularly worried about the HB Terms of Use, as I never intend to post there. But even if I did, I still wouldn't be worried. Unless, of course, an agreement popped up every time I Saved a post, informing me that hitting the button would transfer copyright of that post to HB. Uh, oh, I may have just given him his next brilliant idea. Maybe I should copyright it before he takes it.
Get me the HB Terms of Use and I'll set up shop in the TeamSpeak Open Room and read the whole thing on Blare OnAir.
I am....he,he.... completely serious.... ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!
The terms of use are readily available even without logging in, at:
https://www.hobbybroadcaster.net/terms.php
If you can't get to them for some reason let me know 🙂
I don't recall from when I signed up but unless you had to click an "agree" button before gaining access, or make some other gesture on your part acknowledging acceptance, simply having them on the site does not make them legally enforceable.
Actually I'm kind of surprised that you don't have to agree to the terms of use before being allowed to read the terms of use.
TIB
This was good: "Actually I'm kind of surprised that you don't have to agree to the terms of use before being allowed to read the terms of use."
Tim, if you could grab those Terms for me I will be appreciative... I am blocked from reaching their link... unable to connect.
Oh, and another thing comes to mind...
Are "Terms of Use" copyrighted?
That is, do I technically need permission to read them over a worldwide broadcast?
An email is moving across miles of wire on its way to Bovey.
ALSO... BIG BROADCAST PLANNED
I'm now logged in at the TeamSpeak Open Room for a Blare OnAir show... anyone is welcome to come by and share the microphone.
I was halfway through a reading of the Terms of Use when I lost the will to live and decided to put the program on hold.
I started making comments along the way on poor grammar, contradictory rules, and outright threats.
One threat that was repeated several times is that ANYTHING from the website cannot be shared without permission.
The last line is fun... No grant of compensation over a legal claim can exceed the cost of joining the website.
The TeamSpeak Open Room is closed.
I know it originally took me several emails with Bill before I was able to join the forum.
I still have those old emails saved in my email account believe it or not.
Bruce.
Radio is an interesting medium. It's primary use is to broadcast entertainment and information to the public at large. A broadcast where you have no control whatsoever as to who may listen to your broadcast, no way to prevent anyone from listening to your broadcast, no control over who might record and share your broadcasts, and no way to hinder discussion about your broadcast. Makes you wonder why some would choose to be involved in such a concept.
TIB
Who knew that HB had a YouTube channel?
https://www.youtube.com/user/HobbyBroadcaster
I have to admit I'm impressed that there's a singing jingle! I noticed it on the second video on the list. I've never spoken to the proprietor of the site so I don't know his voice, but if he's doing his own narration he sounds mighty darn good. So, there's that.
TIB