Having only now made a speed-reading of the "guarantee/warranty" offered by one manufacturer (Rangemaster) I find that the special assurance suggested by Rich(F) is not part of the published promise of performance, and so might be a condition worth requesting.
On the "About" page is a 10-day return policy and "Limitation of Warranty" statement, which partly addresses the buyer's rights.
One thing that puts me on guard is a passing of the buck to supernatural forces by a quotation from Colossians 3:23, "...working for the Lord, not human masters."
That sets the FCC and the customer on a lower wrung of importance as "not masters."
But member Rich(F) confounds his own suggestion by offering the alternative:
"If ... FCC compliance is important to the buyer, maybe that should steer the decision made with respect to the purchase of such transmitters."
Trouble with that is we have talked extensively on this website about how cavalier the FCC inspectors tend to be in their inconsistence.
I would be nervous about that 2 1/4 miles myself, even with synchronized transmitters (and ignoring the question of legality). Particularly if you want a solid signal, minimal static, and no dropouts. One Rangemaster might be able to do that for up to 1/2 mile (you'll get a signal out to a mile or more, but it will be static-y and you WILL get dropouts from obstructions). And that's with a sensitive car radio, which not everyone will have.
And the problem with a guarantee of performance, even if you could get one, is that the transmitter(s) are probably the least expensive pieces of equipment. Space, computers, audio equipment and even time would be worth more.
If you could conduct tests in the suggested configuration without any additional equipment investment, that would be the way to go.
Might take a year or two, but for the money you're talking about, you could put together an LPFM station, depending on how good you can scrounge, and who you know...dunno when or if the latest application window has closed, but go to
http://www.prometheusradio.org/
...they have walked maybe 1000's of LPFM stations through the process. But, it's strictly non-commercial, and takes more than one person. You can get support, all you want, (need to form a 501c3 NPO), but you cannot 'advertise' products per se. However, you can list supporters. You would act as manager, with maybe a lawyer and another person (or more) as 'board' or 'partnership' to sign off on the data going to the FCC, but don't have a large board (nothing gets done). You can either study-up on the tech req's or get an engineer...Prometheus has tons of materials and help, thousands of contacts. The FCC itself has tables and formulas you can use to run the tech numbers, you just have to learn how to work them.
Also, of course, after you receive your CP (construction permit), besides the transmitter, you need EAS gear, a quality computer and broadcast software, have to keep good records.
OTOH, using gear like the Barix Exstreamer and dish antennas for serving audio to local WiFi remotes connected to Part 15 AM band transmitters can be a solution because the regulations don't account for various methods for extending range other than the 3 meter antenna (inclusive of transmission line and ground lead) and the 100mw input to final for each system, but sync'ing can be PITA. Basically it's like FM radio translators (different freq's) with a lot less range. However, Part 15 FM band transmitters in the U.S. are heavily resricted. You can't do anything about the power range, so getting more than several hundred feet is not going to happen...it's just physics.
As far as going pirate, if you get caught, you will have to shut down. A couple more of those incidents, and you could lose your equipment (confiscated) and possibly your ability to ever own a legit licensed station. In addition, no one knows if or how often the agency monitors this forum...words to the wise.
Thanks Ken, but I already decided LPFM is not the way I want to go. I want to do this as a good paying job, not a non-profit. Plus you're not allowed to play commericals and I think you're not even allowed to play music. LPFM is just community announcments and nothing more. And in that case it doesn't even resemble a radio station, so that's definately not the way I want to go with ths.
Artisian, that's what I'm kinda worried about. I have no doubt that several rangemasters will get me 2 - 2 1/4 mile range. But that does me absolutely no good if it's ONLY on a good car sterio and even then you can just "kinda" hear me. It would be impossible for me to sell advertising and do this as a full time job if I told businesses: "Yeah, I can kinda reach part of our little tiny town, but only if you're in a car, and only if it's a high end radio in that car, and only if it's turned way up, and only if you're listening carefully. Can I interest you in buying some commercials that maybe 10 people might hear, on a good day?"
So that's something I'm definatly going to have to talk to Keith Hamilton about and ask him, when he says 2.25miles range is that only in a car, in a house, is it clear, etc. Maybe his definition of range and mine might be 2 different things.
He does have a testimonials page on his website, and it does give a person hope to hear all these other people talking about how they get 2-3 miles and the sound quality is great.
http://www.am1000rangemaster.com/main2.html
I would be nervous about that 2 1/4 miles myself,
Here are numbers for a strictly legal, single Part 15 AM system, based on a NEC4.2 analysis.
Groundwave field intensity ranges are shown for the 0.5 mV/m and 0.15 mV/m contours for five conditions of earth conductivity.
A 0.5 mV/m field should give reasonably good service to an inexpensive indoor radio and a 0.15 mV/m field to a good car radio, if permitted by the r-f noise level at the receive site and the lack of interfering signals from other AM stations.
Operating Conditions:
- Frequency = 1650 kHz
- Radiator Length (whip antenna + ground lead) = 3 meters
- Elevation of Base of Whip Antenna = 9 inches above the earth
- Loading Coil Location = Base of Whip Antenna
- Loading Coil Resistance at System Resonance = 15 ohms
- RF Power at Loading Coil Input = 75 mW
- Antenna System Tuned to Resonance on 1650 kHz
- RF Ground = 3-meter Vertical Ground Rod Buried Directly Below the Antenna System
Conductivity 0.5 mV/m 0.15 mV/m
Perfect 0.28 mi 0.93 mi
30 mS/m 0.19 0.62
15 0.17 0.57
5 0.12 0.40
1 0.06 0.22
NEC4.2 shows that even for perfect earth, the distance to the 0.15 mV/m field is less than 1/2 of that stated earlier in this thread.
A range of 2.25 miles might be possible by elevating the transmitter+whip and connecting the transmitter chassis to the ground rod using a long, radiating vertical conductor. It would be surprising if a transmitter manufacturer supported that installation configuration, though.
When I first ran the numbers for this topic I considered that these short paths could be modeled quite well using perfect earth for those paths, with the ground rod buried in the earth conductivities shown in the table.
But I checked on the effect of setting those paths to the earth conductivity used for the ground rod. There was a noticeable difference. Below are the new values:
Conductivity 0.5 mV/m 0.15 mV/m
Perfect 0.28 mi 0.93 mi
30 mS/m 0.14 0.48
15 0.12 0.40
5 0.09 0.29
1 0.05 0.21
Was reading thru the posts and was hoping to see a success story. He seemed to be willing to throw the money at the project...
If you really want to get 6 miles on AM legally we're trying to fight for that. Plus getting a mile on FM legally with 1 transmitter. Check the website below. We need people to get involved in this petition.
I have a few possible backers now that I'm involved in the Save Internet Radio petition and by a highly successful sponsor who has clout.
Making good money on a part 15 station is not something I'd count on. Only way to do this is carrier curent in a town that there is one power transformer and the whole town is on the same power line.
I have been reading posts and looking thru several of the forums for some time. I have dabbled in micro broadcast off and on for many years, but having missed the lpfm opportunity in '13. I have started anew with unlicensed research.
I, like most here want to abide by the law, and yet believe that the current restrictions may not fit every situation. I will sign up for and help anyway possible. Whether I have much to contribute is questionable, and time is limited. I own/head a business and it eats much of my time. Good thing is, that if I could get things off the ground here, I have staff that can assist with my programming to keep it real for our town (they don't know it yet!). At least most them can run a computer, I remember cart machines and being scared to death of all the knobs and slides back many years ago!!!
My local market has much radio coverage from DFW. None it is directed to our little town of <4000. Local news is spread via facebook and what is left of the newspaper. Anyway, not beating a dead horse, everyone here has heard that story.
I am still learning the ins and outs of the current state of non licensed broadcast and streaming. And, I have to admit, it is not terribly encouraging, if you have a goal of providing service to a specific area with a dependable goal of community service and programming (my opinion). I say that, because of the inconsistency of FCC write ups concerning transmitter installs, and the cost of music royalties (and yes, I think musicians et al should get paid), and the amount of time one can invest to have it all taken down/offline in one fail swoop.
Anyway. I will post questions / comments in a new thread if I have anything to contribute or ask. And I do appreciate the time and effort everyone here has given to provide answers to others. It is my opinion that the answers are available if one will take the time to read and do a bit of legwork.
As, a side note, I do like seeing the success stories and those in the community that have stayed with this hobby for the long run. It is good to see.
Craig <<< Long winded...opinionated , old, fat, tired and gripey!
It was sounding like the makings of a success, he was learning and it seemed the multiple transmitter setup could work. That's been a thought of mine for years, to be in a tiny town that doesn't have a radio voice of its own, and run a local station.
Community radio is different in different areas, in bigger cities that have lots of radio stations, it could be for certain groups within the larger group of residents, specialized programming.
From looking at others who run stations, it does seem that dcramer16 has higher budget and expectations than the hobbyists who run most stations, but I think he could use the network of transmitters to build it into something bigger than most hobbyists, just my opinion.
I think the rules are vague for one reason, FUD at the grassroots level, and there may be other reasons, but you can see how much growling the interpretations cause. If it was me I'd just go and do something reasonable without splitting hairs, let it build and see what happens.
TheLegacy, are you on Carrier Current, I'd like to hear more, it's something that noone ever talks about, how does it work for you? Myself I've experienced it with a Talkinghouse antenna running in parallel to a power line near the fusebox in my house to extend the range of my signal 2-3 X over the range by antenna alone. Not only at low frequencies like they say, that was on 1610!
dcramer16: You can play all the music you want on a licensed LPFM.
thelegacy: I admire your grit, but if you think that the FCC will ever allow 6 miles unlicensed coverage... even 1 mile unlicensed coverage... you're dreaming. You've got the energy; fight for something realistic!
Rich,
For once you get what everyone has been hounding you about for years! *claps* Everyone let's all grab our golden shovels and finally bury this horse Rich has been beating all these years, then afterwards , lets get some coffee i am buying!
" I haven't posted such because my points already have been stated, and further explained in this thread.
As always, readers of these threads are free to believe and do as they wish, based on their own research and understanding. "
Really man, there is no point in re-hashing and re-hashing, it's still corned beef hash and it will never change, only now it's looking like that proverbial horse.
Maybe Rich, no one has ever given you any constructive criticism or a pat on the back maybe an A'ta Boy! Good Job! So here it is, you're a smart man Rich. I still don't like you but you're a smart man. .... Better?
Let's move on shall we??
My opinion is, multiple transmitters in a confituration as mentioned a few post's above this one are okay in the eyes of the feds and should be oprated if a person or persons has the means to do so. I say go for it, look the sky isn't going to turn to blood and rain acid while the FCC charges towards you on a firey steed from Hades screaming Blasphemer!! Rule Breaker!! Dam your soul to the depths of Hades for breaking a cardinal rule!!
No. They will politely tell you in a letter that your station is possibly in violation of part 15 rules governing field strength and to shut down the station, remedy the situation and then show them (the necromancers of the FCC) that you have in good faith , fixed the problem, they may come out and look at it and say looks good and be on their way.
You will come away from this hypothetical situation with a better understanding of how things work in the Federal arena but it won't be like repeat violations say like getting multiple speeding tickets and the risk of losing your dirvers license.
It wont be like that all, they don't usually bust people on the first oopsie.
Rich, we are going to need a front loader to move this horse.
Actually some legal part 15 am stations have reported 5 mile range to a car radio when using a real good 10 foot outside antenna.
Carrier current stations have been known to travel a good 6 miles depending on conditions of the power grid in the town.
If we get one to 2 watts on AM you will definitely go 6 miles.
Right now the common range for AM is about 1 mile sometimes two with a 10 foot monopole.
Okay I'll keep it short and sweet and some of you did surprise me that you forgot what I told you.
Rich as in Rich Fry is correct, didn't I tell you all about TWO supposed compliant part 15 AM stations within 7 mile radius of me that have HAMILTON RANGEMASTERS ATOP TALL LOCAL BUSINESSES OVER 30 FEET TALL WITH LONG GROUND LEADS LEADING TO EARTH GROUND BESIDES THE INCLUDED 3 METER CB MOBILE WHIP ANTENNA???
How soon we forgot.
And also, you all forgot WHO installed them and WHO promoted them.
Need a hint? AM TRANSMITTER CHALLENGE AND THOSE WHO PARTICPATED IN IT.
I think word got to the local one next to me, he no longer mentions his antenna height on his station's web site. I'll have to check it out to see if its the same setup.
Im not a rat, just backing up someone elses concerns, that the operator is the one who gets screwed not the installer.
Bruce.