Your idea about having the transmitting system check that the channel is clear has merit but there are other things to be considered for interference free operation.
Consider unintended spurious signals. Transmitters can produce spurs and harmonics (not the same things) which can cause problems. By limiting FM field strength and AM input power (and thus the field strength) the FCC has reduced the possibility of off channel or out of band interference as well as co-channel interference.
The antenna length limit for AM under Part 15.219 relies on the terribly inefficient antenna given up to 100 mW power to limit the radiated field strength. For FM under Part 15.239 the limit is radiated field strength at a distance and not the antenna length or transmitter power. This is because even an antenna a few inches long is much more efficient in the FM band compared to the 3 meter AM antenna.
Rather than trying to dampen your enthusiasm for expanded range with these comments I am giving you some of the concerns which could be used as counter arguments.
Neil
If a transmitter is Certified in the first place it should not be creating spurs or harminics. OK lets look at MURS Radio service and FRS Radio's which surly produce WAY MORE than a part 15 FM Transmitter. I think those little Walkie Talkie's are 1 watt. Now I can't remember the exact frequencies for FRS I use to know them and they were around 467 Mhz somewhere arund there. There is far greater chance for spurs and harmonics there. It's really close to Police and Really close to public safety. MURS even worse. So with that in mind the FCC could enforce that all FM transmitters have a low bass filter in them or band pass filter. Anything above or below 88.1 to 107.9 MHz will not go through. Just like the little walkie talkie's have blocks on them an FM and AM Transmitter can also have these filters. Technology has gone a long way. Especially overseas transmitters that come into here they can add a lot more to them and they are getting cleaner and cleaner every year. Its not a problem just in the US It is an issue all over the world and more and more documations is out there telling users how to filter their FM transmitters and which ones are more filtered. If your transmitter is only getting 1/4 mile a harmonic or spur would be half that distance.
The FCC is certainly gonna have lobbyests that will argue their points, but as an ex telemarketer you need to have those rebuttals ready. If your gonna petition you better have your ducks in a row even for AM because the same arguements will come to you guys too.
Hi, Thelegacy, yup, I agree about AM and not getting listeners....even over 60 ages couldn't listen to you in there houses because of the noise from hydro.
I grew up with AM radio and the hit parade(late 50s 60s and 70s but then AM was king and hydro didn't cause all the interference it does now...you could listen to a radio plugged into A/C and you had clean reception. The dirty hydro is what killed this band and nobody cares 'cause no ones listening anyway.
I know that if my station is to have any listeners it has to be on FM...plus FM goes where AM can't. If you have an apartment building across the street your part 15 AM signal wouldn't get in there but FM would do fine.
If the AM band went "FM"....changed to frequency modulation in the same frequency range and same bandwidth that would revitalize this band 'cause the noise would be gone.
Mark
I really think it depends on where you live.
In a downtown, urban environment, with highrises all over the place, AM will not do so well.
But in small, rural or semi-rural towns, it can do just fine. Even where I live, which is a suburb of Vancouver, it does well, particularly if you live in the subdivisions which are made of all-wood 1 & 2 story houses. Yes, you get some interference from hydro and other man-made noises, but I was able to get over a mile of listenable range (with a car radio) using my ground-mounted Rangemaster.
And I was even able to pick up (just barely, but I knew it was there) my signal at my daughter's house on a Sony portable blaster (in front of a window, admittedly) about 3/4 mile away.
Now it is my turn to add my two cents worth.
I started out with a Ramsey FM 100 that a friend gave to me. He assembled it and believed he installed a part wrong and may have fried that part as he had no equipment to do tests, he put the transmitter aside and eventually forgot what part it was.
One day, he decided to hand It over to me and said if I can get it working, it's mine to keep. The board was fully filled with the parts, however, he had not put the rest of the kit together as far as the projects metal cabinet was concerned.
I did not make any attempts to repair this kit until around 2012. After getting a schematic diagram from Ramsey, I got the kit going.
While I was working on this kit, I started researching FM transmitters, so I started learning about part 15 broadcasting. I joined forums related to AM and FM broadcasting, some were influences to pirate radio and some were influences to legal radio. We all have to start somewhere.
I've always been interested in broadcasting as far back as to when I was a kid. I'm 55 now. Anyways, I eventually set up a little in house radio station where I was it's intended only listener. As time passed, other people who seen my Ramsey FM100 and the fact that I was sending audio into it and it was playing over a near by FM stereo receiver, though that was really cool.
The antenna was a telescopic whip antenna that was included in the kit, the range was very limited, but it did reach a few near by neighbor's apartments and they could listen in with a fairly listenerable signal.
That was the start of my station's existence and although it had very few listeners, we still built up the studio piece by piece until we had a mixer, a dedicated computer with music recorded from LP records and an Behringer MDX1600 compressor/limiter.
While we were playing with this toy, I had learned that the FCC was about to open a LPFM filing period and would soon be accepting applications for a LPFM license.
I registered with radio spark and created a profile, I also went to the FCC website and created an account there and obtained an FRN number, filled out and filed a form 318 application for a Construction Permit.
Things looked good at first and I had looked into a transmitter that was FCC part 73 certified for LPFM use. During the Government shutdown, I had ordered a transmitter from a US owned company. The transmitter I ordered was listed as a certified transmitter by the FCC on it's website. The shipping schedule was 14 days from the time of receipt. The output power on this unit was 30 or 50 Watts if I remember correctly. Sorry, I just do not want to have to dig for old paper work that amounts to nothing now.
Long story short, I returned that transmitter the day it arrived, lost my CP to a minority group who falsely filed under "Educational Institution" and the FCC gave them 92.9MHz. I did not file as an "educational institution, so they got the CP and it went to HP-NL Inc. of New London, CT a HIP-HOP and RAP LPFM station WDUP FM 92.9MHz
We then came up with the idea of multiple transmitters and using a Barix Exstreamer and Instreamer combo based on information I read about on the web from part 15 websites. I no longer hung out at pirate radio websites because I found and hung out at HB and eventually here at part15.us with intentions of doing things legally.
We actually came up with a cheaper way to do this, but what we needed was transmitters located in various areas of high population. The trick was to get those into apartment buildings where one transmitter's signal could entertain several families. Private homes were out of the question as they were not close enough together to get more than one family in the signal zone.
So, we reached out to groups who we knew rented apartments in multi-family establishments. We looked at the buildings, the best ones were buildings with two or more floors and as many as 15 apartments in that one structure. My town has a lot of buildings like that.
Now, based on what we read at part 15 web sites, AM seemed to be the most recommended band to use. Heritage Information Radio a part 15 in Norwich, CT at 1700Khz was using AM. We also heard about Wolverine Radio in Griswold CT using Rangemasters. The results for both stations was, if anyone listened at all, it was via a player built into the website or tunein, but no one listened via the AM broadcast band.
The reasons are, both Norwich Connecticut and Griswold where those stations are located is heavily populated and full of RF noise! I am 1/4 mile away from Heritage Information Radio's location, I am located on a hill over looking the downtown area of Norwich Connecticut. The location of that 1700KHz station is line of sight visible from my location. I tune to 1700KHz using a digital AM tuner and a long wire extending out of my house to an antenna structure on my roof which houses several fixed UHF antennas pointed toward the major television markets for digital TV reception. That would be Hartford CT. Providence R.I. and Boston Ma. and a scanner antenna for my Realistic Pro-2006 400 CH. Scanner. Now that long wire extends about 60 feet into the air in open space, where it attaches to the tower via a ceramic insulator and there is absolutely NO signs of Heritage Information Radio at 1700KHz on my receiver! None! It is lost in the noise floor and having down step transformers near by makes it even worse! I'm stuck near two of them, one on my street and another on the next street over and another up the street 1000 feet or so.
So, we asked people what was our chances of having any listeners if we went AM. We took a survey, we asked a large group of people, and I mean a LARGE group of people, this got us well known in the area as WXTZ. But WXTZ really had no channel at this point. When we were on one transmitter, we used 107.1MHz. However, WFHN from south-eastern Massachusetts was tropo every night and killing that channel.
So, survey after survey kept bringing us to a conclusion, if we went AM, we were dead before we started and we asked young, old, male, female, cat, dogs, hamsters and rats and the answer was, you go AM we won't be listening to you no matter what you play, we already have WICH AM 1310 and we don't listen to them either.
So, we had to make a choice, go AM and waste our time, or go FM stereo and have listeners. Call it what you all want, argue with me like Bill Defelice did that AM IS NOT DEAD BRUCE!!!!!
Well guess what? In this area AM IS DEAD IN THE WATER ALREADY!!! Get over it Bill!
So, we worked out agreements with people, we'll buy what the studio needs to operate, the record albums and 45 RPM records, the mixing console, audio processing equipment, turntables, CD players, Cassette tape decks, reel to reel decks, microphones, 8-track players, you name it we bought it. All our music was bought, we owned the physical media, no music pirating, we licensed the music so we were covered against copy-right violations.
The Ramsey FM 100 was retired from service, the reason being, when we tried to find an open FM frequency, we ran into many problems, Norwich, Connecticut is surrounded by Massachusetts, Rhode Island, the western part of Connecticut and Long Island New York. Every direction you look, there is a station on every FM channel in a 360 degree radius from our location!!! It is a nightmare here for the FM band! 20 years ago you could get stations from over 100 miles away! Not anymore! Now, the band is so congested you can't get a lot Boston stations we used to get back in the day, same with Springfield MA can't get those stations anymore either. They are all covered over by Co-Channel or 1st adjacent interference from legal licensed full power stations. God casters are another nightmare or special town licensees buying up the channels with translators such as Bill's radio station licensed as Town of Monroe Connecticut Licensee, they own 14 translators carrying the SAME crap programming!!
So, we had a problem, no open channels, ZERO open channels! The only one that was quite was 87.9MHz No stations, no chance of us stepping on one of those stations.
We moved to 87.9MHz and called our new network WXTZ 87.9 Norwich. WXTZ is not currently licensed to any stations, we did not ever claim to be licensed by the FCC as WXTZ, we used the whole WXTZ 87.9 Norwich as a branding name and claimed ourselves as a part 15 radio station. We were up to 8 transmitters certified as FCC part 15 type accepted by the FCC.gov website, all strategically located in multi-family apartment buildings.
We had people who listened and we had people who could get the signal in some populated areas of Norwich like a public park with a parking lot where listeners could hang out and get the station on their car radios.
We played rock music mostly right off the vinyl records and we played the WHOLE album! People used to love it when we played Pink Floyd "The Wall" or a night of Black Sabbath albums played from their debut album right up to their last album 13 all played in one long night of music.
All good things have to come to an end, and so, as rumor has it, a local station heard about us from someone who either called or posted on their Facebook page and said do you guys own WXTZ 87.9 Norwich? Response: WXTZ 87.9 Norwich????? Oh Oh, we need to tell the Program Director about this one!!! This PIRATE is stealing our listeners and hurting our sales dollars, because they are operating on FM for FREE and we're PAYING BIG DOLLARS just to stay on the air and have our sales suffer as a result of lost listeners.
The whole story about my station is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXTZ_87.9_Norwich
Now, as far as rule changes for FM going to 1 watt goes, as long as Hobby Broadcaster keeps slamming FM as a PIRATE's heaven and supporting that DEADEND AM broadcast band for hobby broadcasting, FM rules WILL NEVER CHANGE!!! Trust me, not ONCE have I heard him suggest FM be allowed more RF, his answer is always the same, the NAB won't allow it, the NAB won't allow it, the NAB won't allow it, the NAB won't allow it....someone fix that stuck stylus please!!!!!
Yes we need to fix it. Just because the NAB wont like it doesnt mean it shouldn't happen. We need to stop the bribes from lobbyists who have only themselves in mind. FM should not be denied a hobbyist from experimental use at 1 watt and especially on 87.9MHz. If a hobby broadcaster takes away your precious listeners and goes only 1/4 mile they need to hire that hobby broadcaster instead. Connecticut is sort of a police state. What should have happened is you create a blog or web site and embarrass them till they run into a hole in shame. Now for HobbyBroadcaster calling us PIRATES because they dearly love their kids toy AM transmitters I dont take anything they say with any merit or value at all because they are biassed and its all about that AM transmitter. The noise here kills AM. Bruce start an internet station and help kill off the NAB. and report their stations in areas where they wash the entire dial. Their stations will be forced to lower their power hurting them financially. They want to play God lets teach them the responsibility of being God. Hope they have plenty of time because the FM hobbyist will come. Transmitters are better and cheaoer and there is strength in numbers that is the nature of the beast. That is if Internet Radio don't kill them first. Already people are using it. My step sons both have not listened to FM Radio in over 5 years only during severe weather and even that is covered by smartphone.
If one operates on 87.9 they are "pirates." 87.9 is not authorized in the United States for Part 15 broadcasting. 87.9 can be used for other applications but the field strength is now limited to 100 uV/m. So no matter how one spins it, 87.9 broadcasters are "Pirate Radio Operators."
I agree as I've read the citations. I don't transmit there. I won't transmit there till they make it legal to do so. It is probably what got Bruce nailed. The NAB had to figure a way to get hom OFF THE AIR and that was what they done. Had he used a blank frequency (and according to him none was available) he could have kept his network of part 15 FM transmitters all transmitting at 250 uV/M and the NAB would have to eat crow. It was pretty nifty how he had done it. Next time someone tries this they need not TX on 87.9 till the rules change. Its why this should be a part of the petition. 87.9 could be deemed a "Hobby" frequency or "Micro Broadcast" frequency. Yes I want to make it clear that I will not transmit anywhere from 76-87.9 MHz. It does suck because 87.9 is FREE here 24/7. But for now I have to check the inversions after 6PM if I want to continue to operate late at night and I do check every hr or so and tell my listeners what I'm doing and that if I hear a station I won't come back after 20-60 seconds.
@ WDCX Yes, I realize you are correct to state that 87.9MHz Channel 200 is not authorized, however, they still licensed that channel to a LPFM in California, so that kind of contradicts the rules wouldn't you say so?
We really, really tried to avoid another issue and that was to avoid stepping on a licensed radio station's signal. We did studies, looked at channel finder, looked at the FCC audio division data base and found most channels in the FM band were occupied and a 60 dbu contour map showed we were within their 40 dbu contour circle. So one way or another, we were going to have problems with co-channel interference.
The major congestion problem here is associated with "The Town of Monroe Licensee" who has tied up 14 FM channels with CRAP programming. I should do a youtube video of the FM reception I get here and prove that Town of Monroe Licensee's programming is available on 12 different channels in my area!!! Why does Norwich, Connecticut need 12 repeat FM stations that overlap each other? (I'm NOT saying they are all licensed to Norwich, they are licensed to various towns in Connecticut) but they do overlap here I mean even television stations that carry the same network programming are fairly spaced out over the map. Here NBC alone is carried on ONE channel in Connecticut, ONE channel in Providence and ONE channel in Boston. You'd need a good antenna to get all 3 stations in any given location. Now we have 12 stations with a decent signal on the FM band carrying the SAME programming, that are licensed just to Connecticut! Doesn't that sound kind of greedy to you? 12 channels no one else can use because ONE owner has them all tied up! So where does someone else get in on the action if one owner has the right to jam all those channels? I wouldn't mind if each channel used by this licensee was SOMETHING DIFFERENT, but, the same program on all those channels at the same time I think is over kill.
So, to avoid issues with co-channel, we went with an unused frequency, which left us with 87.9MHz. This is a case of your screwed no matter what you do here, one way or another, we would have been harassed, either for operating on an unauthorized channel or co-channel interference with a licensed station.
Bruce.
Bruce I'm glad your putting it out there so the public really gets a grasp of what the true issue is. Its the unbiassed website like this one that does get the truth out. I think some folks think they have a refuge on AM but if manufactures stop putting AM on Radio's to save money you'll lose listeners as well. Many Radio's already only offer FM and Smartphones only offer FM if they have a Radio in them. A few car Radio's have only FM so I think its safe to start think about why everyone needs to get in on the act of petitioning for both the 1 Watt and the 87.9 MHz. I wish you the best of luck trying to get a part 15 FM station on air in your area.
For your reading pleasure Town Of Monroe licensee translator radio stations.
http://www.wmnr.org/web/page.aspx?title=Stations
Look at the overlap on the maps included on their page.
Get my point now?
Bruce.
Bruce, I get your point. But the reality is that under part 15 there is no authorization to broadcast. I know that other stations are authorized, But they are not part 15 stations. So if you are operating in on that frequency without authorization from the FCC. That being said, you may not like Bill but the reality is either you or someone that is associated with you, Is in violation of FCC rules. Bottom line 87.9 is not a legitimate part 15 broadcast frequency
87.9 may have been a small mistake, not an intentional violation.
That does not excuse the major defamation that was continuously and un-endingly aimed at MrBruce by self-appointed righteous clods.
Part time maintenance men from small schools are NOT court judges nor legal scholars.
John, WDCX, a man is known by the company he keeps.
Carl I totally get 87.9 MHz is an illegal frequency to transmit on FM. However since the Scoche is supposedly FCC certified and its able to transmit on 87.9 is a real cause for alarm. Though it usually transmits 10 inches from the receiver's antena (Car Radio) most of the time if for some weird reason there was a Scoche able to transmit 150 feet someone is in for a shocker when Johnny Law man desides to have that person busted for transmitting on 87.9 MHz. So the FCC should eventually make that frequency legal or just warn the person not to transmit there and that would be it. What happened to Bruce could potentially happen to anyone who takes a part 15 certified transmitter out of the box from their local Wal Mart and yet travels down the road and a police officer stops them and arrests them for transmitting on 87.9 MHz or an FCC agent just so happens to be listening and follows the driver and has them arrested or fined. Now unlikely as it is there is still that small chance. I've never heard of anyone who got a NOUO in their car. I guess anything could happen however.
It's not about 'not liking' anyone. I certainly don't know the individuals involved in this personally. I can only comment on actions. And the actions of those involved in tracking down that supposed pirate FM station are just not defendable. They are not the FCC, and going after what they feel is a pirate station - being police, judge & jury all in one - shows what's wrong with with the concept of private individuals and companies getting involved in the regulation of the airwaves. Whether the stations are pirates or not is immaterial - let those who are charged with regulating the airwaves make that call. And all too often, the fear factor alone will drive what might be legal stations off the air.
[Just a side note. Some might be interested in the fact that RFB posted extensively here on this Forum a few years ago about the FM station he ran and admitted that was not exactly Part 15 legal. Perhaps people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.]
But in any event, it's over and done. Continuing to dwell on it does no good. The best response is to just ignore the people involved (they're not all that important), and do what you wanted to do in the first place - run a Part 15 legal radio station.
The more I think about it and do research, the more interested and excited I get about AM stereo. I may just jump into that pond as well to see what it sounds like, and to also see what kind of range I can get.