Hi Everyone, please excuse my absence from this lively and thorough discussion that I kicked off some time ago, I had surgery on my shoulder (fixing old injury that should have happened more than 10 years ago!) so have pretty much stayed away from my computer.
First may I say that it is really great that you have taken it seriously and have discussed the project at great length and provided much to absorb and organize.
The next steps from here are that I will try to digest the discussions and come up with a proposal or at least a draft a beginning of a proposal that I think will work and then share that back with the group to fill in the inevitable blanks.
Once we get that nailed down, I think we should be able to move forward better.
That is about all I can type write now, so will be back later!
Cheers!
Jon Paul
I have noticed that on this and other forums, PhilB tends to be a bit of a bully.
Wow. First I get an asinine comment from RFB and then good old Ermi chimes in with another.
You seem to be compelled to periodically mention me being a "Bully" ever since I called you out on a couple minor technical issues over many years. Apparently, you just can't handle being wrong, even on small issues.
Since you're pushing, here is my opportunity to call you out again on your recent misinformed, incomplete and unsubstantiated tirade on HB trying to debunk the AMT5000 efficiency claim and even going so far as to say it doesn't operate in Class E mode (sheesh!). I long ago dropped out of that forum by choice and I didn't want to clutter any other forums with indirect responses. I figured being quiet and just watching you hip-shoot would finally end when you ran out of ammo or shot yourself in the foot. My patience was rewarded.
You will notice that I have been careful not to post responses to you lately. I'm doing my part. Why do you persist in your vendetta?
I think you have proved my case, Phil.
Let a dumb 'ol hillbilly throw some logic in here..
All of these xmtrs work in the same frequency band, correct?
If they work in the same frequency band, wouldn't they all be lookin' for resonance?
Are they not tunable in one way or another to find that sweet spot?
Wouldn't an RL curcuit be the best bench load to apply? (With no regard to all of the variables)
I say load 'um all up the same way and see who wins!
BTW..
Ya'll need to quit slappin' around someone who has ACTUALLY done sumptin' and show a little respect! JMO..
"I say load 'um all up the same way and see who wins!"
That's fine and dandy if all you want are test bench results. A lot of good that does for real world application.
FWIW, I could care less about test bench results. The bench is not the world out there, be it 8 thousand miles diameter or 5 blocks down the street, it certainly is not limited to some table in a room called a work bench.
I say load these things up to their intended load, be it a 10 foot wire or 10 foot aluminum or copper rod, with and without a ground system. IMO, THAT is the ONLY way to get REAL WORLD results in real world application.
Unless...doing the real world testing methods might dampen a particular units performance. If that is the case, then there is no reason to do a review or test of said unit. It is limited to it's design load parameter...the short wire strung across the room.
I declare that if all this proposed reviewing is going to do is do things on a test bench into a dummy load only, then to me the results are useless and tells me nothing about how the unit performs under actual real world duty.
If that peeves off a few, I don't care. Stick with test bench results and no real world data on hand. Declare victory via a dummy load and test bench.
Talk about NOT thinking beyond the bench! :/
On to other things.
RFB
Point being, If I bring my xmtr over to yer house, it ain't gonna work the same as it does here. The real world has too many variables to think about. If one has a good location with good ground characteristics, things are gonna be better compared to one that doesn't.
Put each xmtr on common ground and see who has the best output! (no pun intended) Every install is gonna be different. There's no way around that. Range is gonna vary from location to location. It's up to the builder/installer to make it as efficient as they can. The question is.. Which unit has the best output in perfect conditions? The more output ya have, the more ya have to work with. That's how I see it anyways..
"The real world has too many variables to think about."
Exactly! And what I have been pointing out for some time. So do you replace reality with a dummy?
How about doing something more realistic to reproducing real world conditions so that all the units under test are given that same set of conditions.
For example, the method of measuring Part 15 transmitters by testing facilities uses a large room surrounded with RF absorbing covering on the walls to prevent reflections of the signal emitted by the DUT. A table, and a ground system below that table. The DUT is placed onto the table, or mounted to short mounting stud, ground of the TX connected to the ground system in the test room, and the unit's antenna wire or 3 meter rod is connected, and then the measurements are made.
By using the measuring standard already in place and applying it to the review project here sounds far more practical and presents a more realistic real world condition while establishing an even playing field standard to ALL units being tested, and tested under their intended operating modes, pushing a wire or rod, with or without a ground.
Ain't no bench dummy load gonna give you that kind of data.
RFB
Someone who has done "sumptin'", and wants $230 each for his product, ought to show respect for those trying to evaluate said product to see if it is worth the asking price.
What a hoot!
I have always shown respect for everyone on this forum, except for the notable exception of two who have clearly demonstrated that they deserve no respect.
Keep pushing.
The AMT5000 is a tremendous buy at its price and, as one would expect, is above the AMT3000 in features and performance. I have one of each operating everyday and the AMT5000 reaches significantly farther than the AMT3000, but that's interesting because I can always go back and try to make a better coil and antenna for the 3000, so it's total satisfaction.
PhilB has been reasonable, helpful, social, is a gentleman and the name-calling (bully) is what is called an "ad hominem attack", which means, "to attack the man rather than discuss the message." Such attacks are bogus arguments and disgrace the accuser.
I have bought 2 AMT-3000s from PhilB.
I like PhilB very much and I love his products.
Carl and I know each other so well now,
that we can pretty much read each other's
minds. (And you WON'T BELIEVE what he's
thinking about THIS VERY SECOND!)
Humor aside, every single one of you guys
on this thread has treated me with
incredible kindness and patience.
I can't fathom this.
Bruce, DRS2
I bought me an Eyeclops, a toy video projector, just to see what it was like to project TV on my wall. The quality sucked but it was neat. I decided that I wanted something better. I went and bought me an LG projector that cost ~$600. Now I gots me a real projector! I didn't whine about the Eyeclops. I knew what I bought. It was a toy!
I built an SSTran and I own a Rangemaster. Expensive toys but I sure have fun with 'um. I know if I wanna transmit a half a mile, I'm gonna put a lot of effort in the set-up, and I did. I totally understand that 100mW isn't gonna go far but it's sure fun to see how far I can make it go.
FWIW, I built the antenna with the loading coil for the SSTran and it got out farther than the Rangemaster. I spent weeks building the ground plane under my mounting location and both were on the same plane. I'm a tech and a perfectionist so believe me, there wasn't any tweekin' that wasn't done. I didn't have any fancy gadgets for testin', just my car. I spent weeks with both units so I gave them both a fair shake, I believe..
To me, it doesn't matter how technicial ya get with any of these units, they ain't gonna cover miles of area with great success. Some areas might work better than others but you ain't gonna compete with a 50kW station. At these frequencies, location DOES make a difference.. Period!
2-way radios are build every day. They have specs and they are tested on a bench in a controlled environment.(service monitor) Some are a little better than others, even by the same manufacturer and model. The radio is no better than the antenna that it's connect to. And the type of vehicle the antenna is mounted on makes a difference too! Been there.. Done that..
We're talkin' milliwatts, guys. Who on this earth is gonna mess around and put up a whole lot of money to see a difference of a few milliwatts or the quality of modulation of a toy? Keep it fun! Ain't no need for tempers to flare! Technicalities are only gonna go so far at this power level.. God Bless ya both..
Dear Friends,
I do truly believe that 12vman put this all into a very proper perspective.
May I suggest we circle back and re-read, a second time, the entry posted by 12vman, titled "It's Just Flea Powered Radio."
Join me everyone!
An old thread just came back to life on the controversial topic of operating a part 15 AM transmitter up on a mast high in the air.
That will continue to be a hot topic, but I think for having a standard set of practices for reviewing and testing transmitters masts should probably be excluded.
Only one opinion.