Operating Level You Use For Audio Processing Equipment

Audio Gain Control Settings:

Delay: 0.01

Gain: 2

Rate: 0.01

Target: 0.88

Quiet 0.03

Sound Compressor

Gain: 0.05

Attack: 0.1

Release: 200

Threshold: -8

Pre Delay: 0

Ratio: 10

If you have a pre emphasis you can set that to 75uS eq and it should also make it sound great.  If you also want to set for the max Loudness you want to go for a +3 to +4.  That was what I was taught as far as recording to a cassette.  If you start going to +6 your starting to get to the point of overmodulation.  So try and keep things so you have some headroom.  I think +3db is moe than plenty of volume.  In fact I've seen some go for a -5 on the air and let 0 be the point you shoot for and a max of +3 db.  Hope that helps a little.  I don't know about the actual hardware you have never messed with that sort of thing, but knowing a little about software compression I can imagine it sort of works the same way.

The "best" setting will be the setting that best matches outputs to inputs. Let's walk through a couple of scenarios.

Let's say you have an audio mixer with a consumer level output of -10dB, and you want to connect to the input of an audio processing device that can be set to an input level of -10dB or 0dB or +4dB. The easy and ONLY answer is to set the input to -10dB so it matches the level coming from the mixer.

The output of the audio processor might also have choices, so you look ahead to what it's going to feed... let's say it's a part 15 transmitter. Most part 15 transmitters are designed along consumer specs, so you want to set the audio processor to supply -10dB for a proper level match.

What can possibly go wrong?

In other words, outputs should match inputs... -10dB to -10dB; +4dB to +4dB.

If you mismatch levels there will be distortion or higher noise floor.

Carl is on the right path with what I was asking.

Most Behringer compressors/limiters have a button located on the rear panel to choose an operating level.

Here are some copy and pasted clips from three different operating manuals for three different Behringer audio processors.

ULTRAMIZER PRO DSP1424P

Use The OPERATING LEVEL switch to adapt the ULTRAMIZER PRO to different operating levels. You

can select a -10 dBv semi-pro level used for home recording and a +4 dBu level used in

professinal studios. This way the ULTRAMIZER PRO is always optimally adapted to the used

nominal operating level.

The Behringer DSP9024 on screen menu is as follows:

DIGMAX refers to the digital maximum. This level must not exceeded under any circumstances. This will result in a very noticeable form of distortion, which occurs much faster and sounds very much more unpleasent than the familiar distortion associated with analog devices.

+4 dBu refers to the operating level found in professional audio equipment (audio inputs and outputs of the ULTRA-DYNE PRO)

-10 dBv refers to the operating level found in home recording and domestic audio equipment, a typical example being tape recorders with unbalanced RCA connectors.

Another example from the

Behringer MDX1600 Compressor/Limiter

OPERATING LEVEL switch. This switch can be used to adapt the AUTOCOM PRO-XL to various operating levels, (In other words) toggle between home recording level (-10 dBv) and studio level (+4 dBu). The level meters will be referenced automatically to the nominal level adjusted, so that the compressor works in its optimum operating range.

So as you can see all three pieces of equipment have an operating range. The DSP9024 has an extra setting called DIGIMAX.

Thelegacy, I was referring to hardware equipment not software versions of compressor/limiters.

I believe those numbers I am referring to are the impedance levels. I was just curious why there is a HOME level and a STUDIO level.

My Behringer VMX1000 mixer feeds the ULTRA-DYNE PRO DSP9024. The VMX1000 does not have a switch that switches the operating level, but the output specs state the following:

MAIN OUT: Max. 25 dBu @ 1 KHz XLR electronically balanced. I use XLR balanced audio cables only.

Bruce.

MrBruce asks: "I was just curious why there is a HOME level and a STUDIO level."

The answer is COST.

Home equipment has fewer amp stages and does not have the transformer or chip that produces a balanced output or input. The outputs and inputs of consumer equipment are unbalanced lines at -10dB.

The origin of broadcast/recording standard level was developed by the telephone companies for transmitting audio over copper wires for long distances, as in network radio and remote broadcasts. The norm was 0dB balanced.

There's some kind of history as to why +4dB was introduced, and I've even seen +8dB.

Using XLR cables is fine, but they can be wired for either balanced or unbalanced, so we need to understand how to convert between not only levels but also wiring standards.

For those wondering what I am referring to, please read this Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level

That should help explain what I am referring to in regards to home recording level (-10 dBv) or studio level (+4 dBu).

I do not know if Mackie processing equipment has switches that set the line levels to home recording level (-10 dBv) or studio level (+4 dBu), but the Behringer processing equipment does.

Keep in mind, this is an external hardware audio processing topic, NOT software related. So please do not refer to computer software audio processing.

Bruce.

Yes, MrBruce, I understand we are talking about audio hardware and the line levels between devices.

Between what has been said in these posts and the Line Level page at Wikipedia I think you have all the answers.

Ask anything else you wonder about.

I was letting Thelegacy know I was talking about hardware audio processing not software as he posted his settings he uses for software processing.

I still have that question, of what setting most of you use when you're feeding a mixing board into a hardware type audio processor. I'm just taking a basic survey of the most common setting most people use and why.

What about you Carl? Do you use hardware audio processing or do you use computer software?

Bruce.

Behringer minicomp800  and set the switch on back to -10dBv. this has presets instead of separate controls for attack, comp., release, ratio, etc. All these features are incorporated in the various settings. The one that works for me is the vocal power 3 setting which works to let me get to the volume of the other stations(with Decade CM-10) without too much unwanted side effect(sound dropouts) although some side effects are cool like a little reverb on drum intros to songs.

I keep the input from source volume just to see the red light flicker on input meter sometimes.

If I set the back switch to +4dBu I don't get enough volume out.

Mark

MrBruce from the way you are wording your question I still get the idea you don't understand what the level settings actually do. I think you should tell yourself to totally forget whatever it is you now think, and with a completely blank mind start reading my posts from the beginning.

There is no such thing as having "favorite settings" for line levels or "most popular settings."

You set each line level between equipment to the level that's appropriate for that situation.

My recording studio used hardware processing devices and I spent a lot of time making sure the wire pathways between each device was set according to what was needed.

I had a big mixture of balanced, unbalanced, -10dB, and others... I forget if 0dB or +4dB was what was used or maybe both in different situations.

With older equipment there were times when 600-ohm balanced was required, but more recent equipment uses "bridging," which means the outputs are very low impedance and the inputs are 5 or 10 times higher.

Now that I'm very modern I do most audio patching and processing in software, although I do have a 4-channel radio shack mixer which uses unbalanced -10dB into the computer soundcard because computers are consumer equipment and usually have -10dB line inputs/outputs unless you get a professional audio card in which case you'd need to follow the instructions in the manual to find out what was needed.

In fact the manuals for your audio hardware should explain all the line level rules, and that would be better than trying to figure out what we are saying.

Okay I read back and see why there is some confusion here, because the only question that is asking for an answer is what settings do those of you who use compression/limiter hardware use?

I believe my question is being confused with a question of what settings I personally should be using. I can't go back and correct one paragraph to keep my question going in the right direction. I know, it's sort of like playing both sides of a record at the same time which adds to confusion.

Mark, based on your reply, I can tell you understood my initial question and posted what 'switch' setting you used which is -10dBv.

Sorry for the confusion I have caused. All I want to know is what setting are YOU using and why? That's an open question directed at everyone reading this.

Bruce.

MrBruce, you've got me thinking about this fascinating subject of line levels, so I'll type a few more thoughts on the subject.

The broadcast industry standard for line level, as I mentioned earlier, was established by the telephone company for sending audio over network phone lines.

Why did they come up with 0dB as the standard level? The answer makes good sense.

To keep the signal strong over long distances it was important to get it as high as possible above the noise-floor, that is, the hum and buzz naturally present on long wires. But there is an upper limit as to how strong the signal can be, and here's why.

Because whole "trunks" or coaxial groups of phone pairs were bundled together on the long trip over miles of telephone poles, there was a problem of bleed-over from one pair of wires to another if signal levels were too high. That's why 0dB was established as the highest tolerable level that would not bleed to other lines.

Imagine if you were on a long distance conversation and you got blasted out by a network radio show on an adjacent pair of wires.

Ok, so that's why 0dB was brought into standard use.

Meanwhile, inside radio stations, network phone lines not only delivered the NBC Radio Network but were also used to send radio station audio five miles to the transmitter site. The most logical way to manage all the signals being patched in and out was to standardize all the equipment at 0dB line level.

The recording industry conveniently borrowed the radio standard levels and a lot of the same equipment, but usually didn't need network phone lines, so they were free to evolve along different directions.

I'm only guessing, but perhaps +4dB was a product of recording standards, cranking the signal level higher above then noise-floor. But whatever standard a recording studio adopted, it was best advised to have a house standard so that different patching of inputs and outputs could be easily accomplished.

As we've already covered, the home standard of -10dB was cheaper and easier to manufacture because no phone-line transmissions were part of the game.

Mixing and matching these different standards is a basic art/science of the engineering profession, and the trick is to explain it in a way that a person can visualize what's going on.

Keep at it.

MrBruce wrote:

"Okay I read back and see why there is some confusion here, because the only question that is asking for an answer is what settings do those of you who use compression/limiter hardware use?

"I believe my question is being confused with a question of what settings I personally should be using. I can't go back and correct one paragraph to keep my question going in the right direction. I know, it's sort of like playing both sides of a record at the same time which adds to confusion.

"Mark, based on your reply, I can tell you understood my initial question and posted what 'switch' setting you used which is -10dBv.

"Sorry for the confusion I have caused. All I want to know is what setting are YOU using and why? That's an open question directed at everyone reading this."

You are way out there and conflating several things that need to be discussed separately.

Carl said:

You are way out there and conflating several things that need to be discussed separately.

MrBruce says: Yes Carl that is why I said I took one paragraph and played both sides of the record at the same time so to speak, I realized that when I read back and seen why you were answering me with a different answer than I was expecting. That was my fault. No harm done, I'm old and already gone senile, got to forgive me.

Bruce.

MrBruce I like your ability to let it all bounce off without getting bent out of shape over the words being flung back and forth.

As you discovered at the ALPB Meeting we are a bunch of very peculiar people all trying to practice the world's most intelligent hobby.

Sometimes it's complicated to express an idea that is new to the person who is asking.

That doesn't mean you are senile, it means I don't know the right words to make the idea get to the right spot in your ear.

Keep re-asking and not just me, but all the other very strange members of WARD 15 will give the best answers they can.