The towns and cities without a TV Channel 6 have long ago added 88.1 MHz FM.
The towns with TV 6 do not have 88.1 FM.
The FCC has applied this practice consistently, and it invalidates this statement from Carmine5: "But since these R&Os (or MM&Os) are for a post-repack era, expect to see more and more TV stations going back to channel 6."
The only way the FCC could open up a bunch of TV 6 spaces would be to shut down a ton of 88.1 FM stations.
Not going to happen.
Was just doing a quick search on the CDBS and noticed that there are DMAs that have both Ch. 6 TV and 88.1 FM stations with overlapping and overlaying contours. These include: Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia and Las Vegas. I'm sure there are more if I spent more time on this cross checking. And I have no doubt we'll see even more in the repacking.
Thank you Carmine5 for making me aware of what I guess has been a changing landscape regarding TV 6 and FM 88.1..
As I recall from conversations with radio engineers during the analog years, 88.1 MHz FM was found in some cases to put lines into the video of some TV receivers and/or become detected by the TV audio Channel of TV 6 stations.
With the massive change to digital television combined with other industry changes perhaps bleed-over problems no longer exist and close placement of TV 6 and 88.1 became allowed at some point in the recent past.
As it turns out Carmine5 was badly informed in his "Quick Reply" in Post # 32.
Los Angeles does not have a TV station operating on channel 6, after going digital KSFV-TV moved to channel 22 as "virtual TV 6." Therefore KKJZ-FM, 30 kW, is able to operate on 88.1 MHz without conflict.
Chicago does not have a TV 6. The nearest one is in Rochelle, Illinois, five counties away, WRME-LPTV. Chicago's 88.1 FM is 100 Watts. No "over-lapping contours."
Philadelphia's WPVI-TV Channel 6, 30 kW, has transmitter in the north-east corner of the area favoring the New York side, while WPEB-FM 88.1 is in West Philadelphia with - get ready - 1 Watt.
I didn't bother checking Las Vegas, point is I haven't been proven wrong about what I said in Post # 31.
Rock On a station on 88.1 Mhz with 1 Watt. Pretty cool. Its looking pretty good for teh new 87.9 Mhz with the new part 15 rules. And hey New Zealand lets their non licensed operate with get this One Watt. So again I think the FCC reads these forums and apparently is listening to our data we've collected and some of the tests that were conducted here. Makes me wonder who on here works for the FCC? But hey at least this time it ended up in the favor of us part 15 operators. It will also help licensed FM broadcasters too as what would be Pirate Radio may turn legal on 87.9 with a clean certified FM transmitter instead of the junk they buy that has spurs and other junk spewing from these faulty transmitters. Win Win for all.
The opening magazine article by Anthony Vargas linked in the opening post could have a better title than "No License No Problem" because the actual piece also discusses a few licensed changes in the FCC's rules.
Also, having spent a little time with the FCC document being written about by Vargas, it seems that he skimmed and skipped through the material, leaving a few points of confusion and incompleteness.
It's fun to watch TheLegacy believing this is the answer to his hopes and dreams when in fact the material never talks about Part 15 FM broadcasting.
It appears to me the entire focus of the FCC's changes are big money ventures like communications companies, cable companies, TV, radio and movie producers and wireless device manufacturers.
If Part 15 FM transmitters are in any way caught up in the changes it might be because they are not expressly omitted.
Back to my belief that because microphones are used with Part 15 transmitters the whole thing adds up to "wireless microphone."
Maybe Carmine5 will come along and explain the whole thing.
87.9 Is not permitted as it is considered part of the FM band, not TV Channel 6.
FCC went through this in Houston. 87.9 is a no-go.
WRME-LP Broadcasts from Northern Downtown Chicago, thats where the tower is.
LPTV stations do not actually have to have any signal in their city of license. (same as FM translators)
Not quoting the document referenced to in this discussion, there were mentions of part 15 opeartion that were discussed but not brought on the record by researchers for the part 15 radio service.
If need be, please ask me to quote what I am referring to and I'll look for that claim and quote it.
What I got out of what I read, was that there could be other possibilities, but no one brought anything to the table reagrding that and the FCC had moved on with covering what was brought up before them.
Nothing is etched in stone at this point regarding this document and since it has not been officially put into law as of the time of this post, there may still be a possibilty to mention intentional radiators such as FM transmitters being used to service a local community event on a longer term.
I am not fluent on FCC lingo or terminology, I have ideas in mind, but lack the abilty to put them out there as they should be worded for clarity.
I do understand what a wireless microphone is, they are used quite frequently in broadcasting and live entertainment minus the cord. I also know that when outdoor movie theaters were still popular, they were allowed to use FM and in some cases AM transmitters to feed the audio stream to their paying audience. These devices often were allowed to cover past the theater's property to make it possible to reach automobiles located on the outer parameter of the theater lot.
I can not speak for all theaters in the USA, but the last one near me that closed in around 1982 had a signal that carried quite well 1 (one) mile from the lot's outer parameter and was on 91.1 MHz. I do not know of course if that was okay with the FCC, but the service, which contained profanity was not questioned or shut down, so perhaps the installation and opeartion was legal.
Since most outdoor drive in theaters have been closed do to bankruptcy, perhaps that service can be re-activated again, after all, that was a public performance that lasted as long as the theater was in operation each night, couldn't that service also be re-activated again as a micro-powered community radio service? One with no requirements such as EAS systems, unless one can afford such equipment.
I truely would not mind registering my radio station with the FCC and perhaps even be assigned a legal frequency and some protection from other part 15 stations, so we are not competing with each other for the same channel number in a given market area or neighborhood. The FCC could also assign each station with a set of call letters different from LPFM and full powered licensed stations.
If some options are still open for discussion, perhaps those options should be brought forth before the final decisions are made to those proposals quoted in this document linked to in the opening post of this here topic.
Bruce.
I think the proposal could have used Thelegacy's ideas, they seem to be close to the same thing as he wrote about months ago. They'll use the ideas, just never admit it.
Way to go Thelegacy, keep your low power service dreams alive, without dreams there's no advancement. That's why I asked what 100 mw of power could do MW into a full quarterwave antenna like commercial stations would use, and about extreme top hats on short verticals.
I've heard outdoor drive-in theater movie sound on FM and even one on AM too. The FM had excellent sound quality too, in Stereo! and might go a mile, not sure exactly, but the signal lasted for several minutes in the car going past theater. The theater was on a lonely highway, there was really nothing stopping the signal.
I knew about an AM, it was long ago, way down at the bottom of the dial. I had an old radio that had stars on the top and bottom for HAR and TIS stations, and could get the drive in's sound on the star, so I assume it was on 530 khz? No idea how far that station went, at least up the street, but it was way more than 300 feet away, and the signal would gradually fade away on the car's radio.
The theater was in an industrial area, but there was a small neighborhood across the street from it. I can imagine all the kids who lived there must have tuned the movie sound in to hear the swear words.
Well if these theater transmitters went a mile back then and no one complained and there was no mention of interference then why can't hobby Radio be activated and have the same power. Its interesting to note that the FM signal went a mile I'd also like to know more about that AM signal. It could happen because of the fact they took my idea in the proposal. Yet some may make fun of my ideas and say its fun to watch my dreams of these things. I can tell you I predicted around 1996 when everyone was phone phreaking (hacking or scanning codes to make free calls) that the phone companies would be forced to go flat rate. Well people laughed. That was until an ANI (Automatic Number Identification) jammer was born. I'm not going to say who made it but it was someone who ran off with the idea that if you could inturrupt the signal (high pitched whine) you could jam it and thus the phone company would not know what number you were calling from. Well laugh at me or not it worked and we have FLAT RATE long distance which started to happen in 2001. So as technology changes and people refuse to be manipulated into believing Radio broadcasting is for the Rich will fight to even the playing field for everyone. If your talking about white space devices there is no reason to believe that the FM broadcast band won't soon include these wireless microphone frequencies between 2-6. Even if your talking about 87.7 it still is receivable by a lot of Today's Radio's. I'll just wait now and see how much of my prediction will come to pass as there is a demand for this and it could solve a lot of the NAB's woes rather they want to admit it or not. Yes there is a chance some will listen to a hobby station. But give them some black frequencies receivable by Today's Radio's and at least it won't jam an existing licensed station.
My motto has always been "No idea is a stupid idea"
Please keep that in mind, because it is very true. Some of the best inventions out there started as a mere thought or idea. Bill Gates, Alexander Gram Bell and even Einstein are to name three out of the millions and millions of people who were thought to be crazy when they first mentioned the possibilities to which we take advantage of today.
Bruce.