I was undecided where to put this, but thought I'd put it here.
I've noticed the talk about ground has perked up again. Some still won't acknowledge the fact.
If your AM transmitter is elevated and you have a conductor going to ground, be it a wire, cable, pole, mast or rain gutter, it's illegal. That's clearly stated in the rules. Unless of course, your transmitter is at nine meters high, with a 9 meter ground lead and a 1 meter antenna. The TOTAL antenna/ground lead cannot exceed 10 meters. That's a fact.
It is NOT really up to the inspector to decide if you're legal. The legal definition is quite clearly spelled out. They may let it slide. But it dosn't change the rule. Just like if I whiz past the state trooper at 70 mph in a 55 mph zone and he doesn't take off after me, it doesn't mean the law is really for 70 mph even though the sign says 55 mph.
This is why my elevated AM transmitter has NO ground lead. And why it's mounted to a 4 foot piece of plastic electrical conduit mounted to my house at an attic dormer window. It's extremely not grounded. When first installing I did connect a ground as I followed the instructions provided with the transmitter that clearly showed a ground lead from an elevated transmitter on a house down to a ground rod in the Earth. After reading about this issue I removed that ground lead years ago. But my certified transmitter instructions clearly showed installing it. I did indeed take my field strength meter out and measured the difference between grounded and not grounded, and it did make quite a difference. I still make it over a mile from the transmitter but not nearly as strong. And with the ground I could reliably go much further, but it took me down the highway where the only listeners would be passing cars at 65 MPH who would hear me for maybe a minute longer. Certainly not worth the risk. I cover my 1/4 mile long, 4 block wide town easily with no ground. Which is all I hoped to do.
But... (and here's the real reason for my post) I often wonder what would happen if I did a ground mounted install and ran the ground straight into the Earth -- straight down -- to the level of my basement floor and then connected it to my incoming water line? Rather than building ground radials the entire underground water system would become my ground. Wouldn't that make for a heck of a ground system?
Our entire water line system here is metal pipe. And I know it conducts for blocks, because in the winter when it's 30 below zero around here, people who don't leave their water running wind up with frozen water lines. We call "the guy" who comes in his truck with a HUGE welder running off a gas generator. He has HUGE thick cables, blocks long (think massive giant jumper cables) he connects one to the copper pipe that comes into your house in the basement, then finds a place to connect to the water lines outside -- a water shutoff in someones yard, sidewalk, or street that's accessible, or even a fire hydrant in a pinch, and he pumps a crap ton of current into the pipes between his two connection points, which heat up, and melt the ice inside and your water starts flowing again! So, I'm thinking a heck of a ground system there. Although I imagine trouble in the winter when the thawing man comes around in the neighborhood and jams several thousand watts of juice into the ground! LOL. But I note the phone systems in the houses are connected to these inside pipes for ground, too, so who knows.
I've just always wondered how that would work. I'll probably never try it, because I have actual regular listeners and don't want to be "off the air" for a day while I experiment with these things.
TIB
Tim: I think you meant 3 meters.
LOL. Of course. THREE meters -- my brain was inadvertantly converting to "about 10 feet" without me knowing it! Yeesh.
Too funny
Aerial ground radials have not been well publicized and probably aren't known of by most part 15ers due to lack of publicity.
Whether below ground or above ground, so-called ground radials are NOT "ground leads" because by their very nature ground radials do not radiate... let's take a simple example.
A part 15 AM transmitter mounted 30-feet above ground.
The transmitter does NOT have a wire or pipe connecting downward to earth ground. It is in a "floating ground" state.
From the ground connection of the transmitter a horizontal wire is suspended toward the south for X feet (let's say 20-feet).
From the same ground connection of the transmitter a horizontal wire is suspended toward the north for the same X feet.
Because the horizontal wires are equal length in opposite directions they are out-of-phase with each other and do not radiate, but they will add an improved ground return for the RF path and increase the field range.
Because the radials are not "ground leads" but are in fact virtual ground, they are legal per 15.219.
I often wonder what would happen if I did a ground mounted install and ran the ground straight into the Earth -- straight down -- to the level of my basement floor and then connected it to my incoming water line? Rather than building ground radials the entire underground water system would become my ground. Wouldn't that make for a heck of a ground system?
Connecting to an incoming, buried water line as an r-f ground is simpler, and cheaper than burying a lot of radials around the base of a monopole antenna. But radial wires centered around the antenna base can have much less r-f loss than even a very long, buried water line.
The reason for this is the r-f currents being collected by a long, buried water line need to travel a much longer distance from the antenna through the lossy earth to reach it. A lot of that current is converted to heat as it crosses that lossy path to reach the water line.
The r-f currents radiated into the earth by a monopole antenna are greatest within about 1/4 wavelength of its base. So it is important to minimize the r-f resistance of that path -- which is best done using radial wires buried in that area.
The r-f current producing radiation from a monopole is the same as the r-f current flowing between its base and the r-f ground system. Minimizing that loss maximizes the r-f fields radiated by that antenna system.
Elevated radials have to be perpendicular to the antenna; sloped radials will radiate, and are used frequently by amateur radio operators to increase signal strength.
Now I will repeat two posts here in THIS topic for clarity.
Post #1
I personally know two AM part 15 installations within 7 miles of me, one in my city and the other 7 miles to the north of me that were installed by the company that sells and owns/manufacturers the transmitters and they are installed up in high places with long ground leads to Earth ground.
The station in my town, has the transmitter 60 feet in the air, audio module and powered through cat 5 cable, but 60 foot antenna structure is Earth grounded and so is the weather proof box housing the AM transmitter. In other words, the transmitter is grounded to Earth through the antenna mast, which is grounded to EARTH.
The person 7 miles north of me, has 3 of this sellers AM transmitters mounted high in the air, one is on a 3 story commercial building in the downtown area of that city, two are remotely located on two different businesses in the area that agreed to allow the installtion of these transmitters, which get an audio feed from the station's web site, both are mounted high up on poles attached to the structures, well above their roof lines, by 10 feet. Both installations have a wire going to Earth ground througha heavy braied copper cable to a ground rod at Earth level buried in the ground 6 feet.
I seen all three antenna structures myself, so I know how they are hooked up. The owner's of said stations, are DJ's NOT techs, NOT anyone who would know how to hook up their own outdoor transmitters. That is why, by recommendation of the other part 15 web site, agreed to buy from and have their transmitters installed by that seller/owner/manufacturer of said transmitters.
The seller is the best friend of and HIGHLY recommended by another part 15 related forum board that barks about non-compliance when it comes to other people who are not liked by said forum owner, but his best friend is guilty of installing non-compliant part 15 AM transmitters.
Both AM radio station's web sites clearly mention that part 15 related web site on their main web site pages, go figure huh?
Can you fill in the missing names above for the seller and the forum board and also name the part 15 forum board owner?????????????
I'll bet you can.
Post #2
Clearly if a company owner that makes and sells part 15 AM transmitters installs his part 15 AM transmitters in a fashion that is illegal, by delibrately attaching a 12 awg copper cable to their RANGEMASTER AM broadcast product's antenna ground to EARTH GROUND on a client's supposed LEGAL part 15 AM station, he is putting that person at risk for an NOUO.
The owner's of these AM part 15 stations were taught to be DISC JOCKYS, NOT ENGINEERS.
This is why at the advice and recommendation of Mr BD of HB they hired Mr. Joe Pelham to install them. Mr. Joe Pelham owns the company that sells the Rangemaster
I bare witness to the installations and don't care what lies others tell to cover their asses.
If I had an automobile I would drive to Jewett City Connecticut and photograph the RANGEMASTERS and HOW THEY ARE INSTALLED, clearly the station owner told me he did not do the install, so he does not understand nor believes me when I said your transmitters are EARTH GROUNDED and are perched attop a 3 story building with a GROUND WIRE GOING TO EARTH GROUND which is illegal. We're looking at perhaps that RANGEMASTER being 25 maybe 30 feet above the Earth. He was told not to listen to me because I am guilty of operating a high powered PIRATE radio station and I am not to be trusted because I am a blantant law braking pirate!!
This station's other two AM transmitters are installed at two local businesses, one being an auto parts store in the town of Griswold Connecticut, this install is on top of the business, which is roughly two stories high and has a 10 foot pipe attached to the upper side of the building near the roof level, towering about 8 feet above the roof line! There is a clearly visble copper wire attached to the ground side of the RANGEMASTER that travels down to a copper ground rod driven into the EARTH.
In Norwich Connecticut, there is a part 15 AM radio station, which uses a 60 foot pole with a RANGEMASTER antenna atop of it, the RANGEMASTER is grounded to EARTH GROUND via the 60 foot mast pipe.
You do the math folks.
At both part 15 AM radio station web sites HB is mentioned on the station's main page as being the BEST resource for LEGAL part 15 AM radio broadcasting knowledge.
There now, I spoke English for all to understand, it's the truth and I'm sticking to it, the truth is in the way those stations were hooked up by someone who should KNOW BETTER.
But than again, it's the station owners who get screwed, not the jamoke who installed the NON-COMPLIANT transmitters.
Furthermore, is anyone shutting them down and harrassing them like they did to me? Hell no and you know why.
Answered in 4 letters: AM & HB
*********************************************************************
End of both posts and now my newer response
I added these posts here to THIS topic because aren't those who are invloved supposed to be strict to the part 15 rules and state time and time again that they are against people who break the law, but yet they play a part in that happening as well?????
Both should know that your average DJ who wishes to operate his own home part 15 radio station may lack the knowledge to legally install a part 15 compliant radio station. When you lack that information or knowledge, you usually call someone who claims they have that knowledge and have them either recommend someone or they do it themselves.
Too many people are willing to trust those who pose under the title "ENGINEER" even if that engineer is an SBE certified one.
Adding a ground lead to Earth ground from a Rangemaster mounted at a height of 30 feet and a 102" whip antenna on the rangemater is truely an illegal install. 20 feet + 10 feet = 30 feet.
Tim, I am not trying to take your point off topic, you made some good points, but keep in mind, that my point covers the fact that people who try to stay legal can follow the wrong people or advice, which greatly puts them at risk.
Bruce.
... This is why at the advice and recommendation of Mr BD of HB they hired Mr. Joe Pelham to install them. ...
That may be true, but can such be proven?
In any case, Mr Pelham's web page FAQ at http://www.pelhambroadcasting.com/pelham_faq.html includes this text:
Q: Can you assist me in building a licensed radio station?
A: ... We do not provide services for unlicensed radio stations that operate with power and field strength exceeding FCC Part 15 regulations.
Of possible interest to readers is that this website clip does not include compliance with FCC 15.219(b) in the description of the services they provide.
Sloping elevated radials affects the feedpoint impedance unless I missed something LOL!
Rich Said:
That may be true, but can such be proven?
MrBruce Said:
It can, but let me share something with you.
I know the person from Jewett City, but he is currently NOT willing to talk or have anything to do with me.
Why? Well, it brings us back to my station WXTZ 87.9 Norwich and a little bit of history of what that person's intentions are.
His intentions are to OWN and OPERATE a LICENSED radio station.
Right now he is stuck being a part 15 AM station, using multible AM transmitters to cover some ground.
When HB and it's membership played a major role in accusing WXTZ of being an illegal pirate radio station operation, the Jewett City station owner was contacted by Bill to question him about his knowledge of WXTZ, because at HB's forum board I had mentioned I had met the owner of the AM station in Jewett City. Bill told this owner, his association with me "a PIRATE radio station owner and operator" could cost him his chances of ever owning a licensed radio station either AM or FM, because the FCC says, if you are found guilty of supporting or associating with a PIRATE you could jeopardize your chances of ever getting such a license or being on the board of directors, or in the management of such!!
The owner refuses to speak to me now, for fear that I will ruin his chances of his part 15 AM becoming a fully licensed full powered part 73 radio station.
BUT!!! He was the one who told me the story about how his transmitters were installed and by who and who recommended the seller/installer to him. I seen the installations with my own eyes, because that owner showed me the setup. I never felt the need at that time to take pictures and I do not own a cell phone that has those capabilities.
To some degree, I still have the private chat on my facebook account with the station owner, but then again, I can't prove here on line he said what he said, because in this case it can be said I spoofed or altered the conversation on here. But viewing my facebook chat it does prove he said it from his Facebook account name, which is his real first and last name.
Bruce.
Just a quick clip from Facebook.