Elevated Antennas for Part 15 AM Transmission

MrBruce, it really does not matter if what the stations think is right or wrong.  You are not going to change their minds, unless you can come up with a compelling argument that increasing power to unlicensed broadcasters will somehow be to their benefit.

I do not see any positives in a confrontational approach (i.e., taking the prove it stance).  THAT will especially not change the minds of anyone.

I am increasingly of the mind that the only way increased power will be allowed on FM is to allocate another portion of the spectrum for Part 15.  The up side is more range and eliminating the interference arguments.  The down side is that most commonly owned radios may not be able to receive it.  I do not think that 87.7 or .9 will be an option - those frequencies are just too potentially valuable for existing licensed services (the airwaves are already crammed full in some markets).

AM is another matter.  Since everyone licensed wants to go to FM, the AM bands are becoming more open, and perhaps a section of that spectrum (i.e., the X band) could be allocated for higher power (or at least increased range, there are other ways to do it than just higher power) Part 15 AM.

ArtisanRadio said:

MrBruce, it really does not matter if what the stations think is right or wrong.  You are not going to change their minds, unless you can come up with a compelling argument that increasing power to unlicensed broadcasters will somehow be to their benefit.

I do not see any positives in a confrontational approach (i.e., taking the prove it stance).  THAT will especially not change the minds of anyone.

MrBruce Said: I am not creating an argument, or a confrontational approach, but a defense, a defense can also be called an argument. In my personal case, I am not the one who confronted Mr. Station owner, he confronted me.

If a broadcaster is going to get a part 15 station shut down claiming loss of revenue, they have to present some type of factual proof of such, that my station actually hurt their station financially not just cry fowl without facts. (I'll leave it at that) 

ArtisanRadio Said:

I am increasingly of the mind that the only way increased power will be allowed on FM is to allocate another portion of the spectrum for Part 15.  The up side is more range and eliminating the interference arguments.  The down side is that most commonly owned radios may not be able to receive it.  I do not think that 87.7 or .9 will be an option - those frequencies are just too potentially valuable for existing licensed services (the airwaves are already crammed full in some markets).

MrBruce Said:

I am not the one pushing so much for 87.7 or 87.9MHz to be part of the part 15 initiative, I have suggested allocating a portion of frequencies below 50 MHz for experimental part 15 broadcasting, which allows more field strength.

49Mhz is a good starting point and assign a number of channels just like the FM band has channels 200 to 299.

I am not here proposing to attack any licensed broadcasters, I am simply trying to gather evidence that supports my claims that part 15 radio stations can be beneficial, not harmful.

If I was to be part of this initiative, I need to have proof and facts and those can only be possible by gathering information and presenting that information in words that convince those who have the ability to make those ideas a reality.

I am not here to hurt the licensed broadcasters, or to put them out of business, I am here to gather facts that help me present proof that perhaps the rules are outdated and need to be revised for the way things are today.

If a licensed broadcaster was at a hearing concerning part 15 radio station operations, I need to have my thoughts on track, my "T"s crossed and my "I"s doted or I will fail to make a valid point in defense of part 15 and why there should be some sort of band expansion or increased signal range allowed for part 15 operations.

Yes, licensed stations and the NAB are going to say NO!

But, there have been many who were told no and they did far worse than I am propossing and they got their laws changed in their favor. I am not going to post case and points here, but there is a long list that I am aware of. I'm not looking to burn down cities or protest in the streets, I'm looking at backing up a civilized proposal that the rules are outdated and need to be revised.

So, no, I am not here to attack or harm anyone, I am simply gathering information for the purpose of creating an arument against those who claim our hobby is harmful to the industry.

Bruce.

Artisan's words: "...it really does not matter if what the stations think is right or wrong."

What stations, or people, think and HOW the brain works is something important to know a little about in understanding people.

An example: A new neighbor moves into a house, he and his wife look out from their front porch and see the old neighbor's yard. It is their "view", their "horizon".

They decide they don't like the way things look over in the other yard and register a compaint with the city.

Here's the problem. The new people didn't buy the view of the neighbors yard, they only bought their own yard. But their own yard is too close for them to see, so they get possesive about the horizon of their vision which they do not own.

Without fairness the city will launch an investigation against the innocent complaint victim.

Radio stations only hold sway over their frequency and their business affairs, but might make the same mistake over what is observed on their horizon of view, and the FCC will track it through with no thought of analyzing the wrong headedness of the agitator. Won't even tell the complaint victim who complained.

The systems under which humans operate are flawed.

Self defense has gotten expensive.

In Post # 63

Carl Blare Said:

Radio stations only hold sway over their frequency and their business affairs, but might make the same mistake over what is observed on their horizon of view, and the FCC will track it through with no thought of analyzing the wrong headedness of the agitator. Won't even tell the complaint victim who complained.

MrBruce said:

EXACTLY CARL!!! Do you think I know who complained about my station? NOPE!...NADA!

I think that is wrong, because it does not allow me to work with this trouble maker to begin with. They got their wish, we went silent, not because we were illegal, it's because we lost our supporters, without them, we were off the air. They didn't scare me, but, they did scare our line of transmitter owners who pulled their plugs for good.

8 Decade MS100 transmitters went dark on the morning of April 15 of 2015. Those people were scared and there was no changing their minds to continue participating. The scare tatics were you could face fines of $10,000...blah...blah..blah...

Bruce.

We get about 10 Rich's on our side and visit their PUBLIC FILES. Nothing spooks a station more than having strangers coming in to see their PUBLIC FILES.

I knew a guy who was ever so proud of his great grandfather who was with the Nazi SS. This guy I knew would wear his black trench coat and pop in to inspect station public files. He would tell me later over a beer how they paniced because almost no one ever asks to see the public file.

Part 15 stations aren't required to keep public files. Never give in. Use the milliwatts you've got coming to you. Use them for the betterment of mankind.

Wdcx posted:

MR BRUCE ASKED: "Does anyone have an answer to my question: Does a full service licensed radio station have to pay the FCC for its license? (Please do not include any application fees (if any)."

I did not intend my comments to start a bickering war.

Basically, what I am saying, is that over the years, I have found that the best way to get something done is to get those who might oppose it onboard.  Somehow.

In other words, you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

It does not matter who is right or who is wrong.  Or who started the fight in the first place.

If the objective is to get increased signal strength for Part 15, however that is done, somehow all the parties have to come together and agree.

Of course, people can take whatever approach they want in this initiative or petition.

ArtisanRadio I am not disagreeing or arguing with you.

I can't come together with people if they aren't willing to make themselves known, so, perhaps we can work together.

I realize I can not make anyone come out of hiding and discuss with me what can work out as a positive thing, but it sure helps, if they at least hear what I have to say, then make a final conclusion.

I made that approach, but those who were concerned, chose to be absent from that discussion and also chose to be anonymous.

I can not work with people, if I do not know who they are, but at least I did make that effort.

Bruce.

Here is an argument that might work.

We as Part 15 broadcasters do not want to cause interference with licensed broadcasters.  Traditionally we have been placed alongside them on their frequencies, and throttled in power to reduce the chance of interference.  That has been accompanied by enforcement against those who have decided to disobey the rules in seeking more range.

Why not give us our own set of frequencies, relaxed rules and let us self-regulate.  Much as in the amateur radio service.

Of course, that would have to be fleshed out significantly, but hopefully the gist is coming through.  The licensed broadcasters get rid of Part 15 operators; in fact, they get rid of anyone who is not licensed.  That is a positive for them.  The FCC reduces enforcement levels and only has to go after the blatant pirates.  A positive for them.  And Part 15 broadcasters get more range and relaxed enforcement (some might call it unjustified) against them.  Yet another positive.  Everyone wins.

Post #69 MY FAVORATE NUMBER!!

ArtisanRadio Said:

Here is an argument that might work.

We as Part 15 broadcasters do not want to cause interference with licensed broadcasters.  Traditionally we have been placed alongside them on their frequencies, and throttled in power to reduce the chance of interference.  That has been accompanied by enforcement against those who have decided to disobey the rules in seeking more range.

Why not give us our own set of frequencies, relaxed rules and let us self-regulate.  Much as in the amateur radio service.

Of course, that would have to be fleshed out significantly, but hopefully the gist is coming through.  The licensed broadcasters get rid of Part 15 operators; in fact, they get rid of anyone who is not licensed.  That is a positive for them.  The FCC reduces enforcement levels and only has to go after the blatant pirates.  A positive for them.  And Part 15 broadcasters get more range and relaxed enforcement (some might call it unjustified) against them.  Yet another positive.  Everyone wins.

MrBruce Said: I agree 100% with that whole post!!!

Bruce.

I had retired from this post, but have come back out, or in, to agree also with Artisan's idea.

Yes, we would be out of their way and have our own space in which to express our radio ambitions.

In a way it is sort of low down to be forced onto the blank channels living out of a radio dumpster the way things are now.

To make the world's worst analogy, the licensed operators are seated at the best tables in the up-scale restaurant, while we are allowed to crawl around on our hands and knees looking for crumbs on the floor. It could get annoying to have us there.

Yup, so get ready to sell those part 15 FM transmitters to people in other countries, because we're headed somewhere in the land below 50 MHz.

Bruce.

I was going to write something totally different, but I had to remember something Station8 told me Today, that could make a difference next year. C Quam AM Stereo will be mandatory in Radio's starting in 2016. Now if Station8's antenna works as good as it does for him in some of the other Beta testers cases, we could start broadcasting C Quam AM Stereo and just like NBC was with color TV, our stations would have listeners while the commercial stations wait for years to install C Quam AM Stereo. Already some manufacturers are saying “Get CD quality sound on AM Stereo!” Now I was talking to Station8 and if The Legacy was the only AM station in Elizabeth City, NC broadcasting AM Stereo, and a True Album Rocker saw a Stereo that had C Quam they would buy it and I'd have a huge sign in my yard saying “Hear CD quality sound on AM No Buzz, No toy Radio sound on AM!” and “We bring Album Rock back to the Masses!” Do you know what would happen? The Legacy would have a barrage of listeners for 4.6 miles. Now this could change the face of AM and re educate the masses that this is not your regular AM, Its C Quam AM. People are not smart enough to know its the same AM. And guess what they hear FM quality and they tell their friends to buy this Radio it has C Quam and listen to The Legacy because its the only station in town broadcasting C Quam AM Stereo. By the end of the year everyone in town who loves Album Rock would have bought a C Quam capable AM receiver. And The Legacy would be a successful part 15 station not having to break rules to get listeners while doing something good to revitalize AM from its downward spiral for years.  In the mean time I need a FM transmitter as a back up while I wait for the C Quam Radio's to be in stock at the Elizabith City Wal Mart.  This will be fun.

Thelegacy good luck with that! I more than likely will be throwing my AM stereo C-Quam transmitter out there real cheap, built as a two foot range transmitter, I'm not messing around looking for an amplifier to get an additional 200 feet out of it, not for AM. (I'm not kidding when I say two feet range as in distance in feet from the 10 foot long antenna wire!) Actually, I was told by Station8 that there is unfortunately NOT enough RF output from this transmitter to drive any type of amp anyways, so that'd be a waste of time now wouldn't it?.

Until, that is until, we get a new band for experimentation, I am here as a supporter for when that happens, but until that happens, I will still enjoy reading what you all have to share in this hobby, but for now, I will not bother messing around with any transmitters that compete with my local broadcasters. That includes both AM and FM broadcast bands.

Perhaps, I'll head back into CB radio for a while, but rest assured, when you get going with any proposals, I'll be here to participate in hopes of making your dreams come true. But for now, I have soured from the hobby to bother being an active part of it for now.

Please don't give up as I won't let you down when it comes time for me to jump in and help in any way I can.

Bruce.

What?

"C-QUAM AM stereo will be mandatory in radios starting in 2016"?

Might wanna double-check that one.