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Don’t operate on channel in a stations protected contour

 
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Last Post by Anonymous 11 years ago
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 stvcmty
(@stvcmty)
Posts: 34
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There is a NOUO for someone operating in Baltimore on 93.5.  ( http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-334850A1.html )  There is a CP for a LPFM on 93.5 in Baltimore ( https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=193908 ).  The address listed for the NOUU is inside the 60 dBu service contour for WTTZ-LP.

 

The NOUO is a bit disappointing and sparse. It would be nice to know if this was someone with a part 15 compliant transmitter interfering with a licensed station in the licensed station’s contour; perhaps they did not know a LPFM was going to use that channel.  Or maybe it was a full blown pirate.  Or maybe it was someone who lost out on the LPFM application and they were jamming the LPFM out of spite.  I would have liked to see some language such as “operating a transmitter on the same channel as a licensed station inside their protected contour is a violation of Part 15.5”, but no such luck.

 

 

I am a bit frustrated by the NOUO, it looks like it is aimed at the apartment complex rather than a specific resident.  Stuff like that could cause the apartment complex to ban all AM and FM transmission, even if it is 15.219/15.239 compliant.  The NOUO reads like the FCC is trying to bully the apartment manager.

 


 
Posted : 13/10/2015 11:32 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

That is what I was afraid of with all the Anti Pirate Radio talk from the other side. Somehow there has got to be a way to get the whole story. Is there some way to get the whole story? What about the Electronic Freedom Foundation? Check with eff.org as they probably would love to sink their teeth into this if the operator was not operating above 15:239 rules for FM.


 
Posted : 13/10/2015 12:45 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

Is this an Antenna I see?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/5715+Park+Heights+Ave,+Baltimore,+Md/@39.3538534,-76.6864339,3a,15y,61.48h,110.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sniVeUXLpn9_vRMR8gTwavQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x39fdea7eb49b7bab!6m1!1e1


 
Posted : 13/10/2015 1:07 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

Just the street, cars, building, and trees. But then, I'm not columbo so lots would go unnoticed with me.

 

Mark


 
Posted : 13/10/2015 1:34 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

What is that...never heard this term. The NOUO doesn't say much. Don't know any details of why this was issued.

Mark


 
Posted : 13/10/2015 1:39 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

The FCC issues licenses for stations.  A station has a service area.  For some stations it goes out to 60dBu, for some it is less.  In that service area (contour) the station is protected from just about everything.  Full power station (Class A, B, C) are primary users.  They are even protected from secondary users (translators and LPFM’s) outside of their contour to an extent.  LPFM’s and translators on the other hand are not protected from interference outside their contours from other licensed stations, however they would be protected from interference from unlicensed users provided the FCC took action.

 

The above NOUO is for use of a frequency (93.5 MHz) inside the area a licensed station (WTTZ-LP) is licensed to serve.  So if it were a part 15 user, they could be complying with 15.239 or 15.209 but still be issued a NOUO for causing harmful interference (to a licensed user).  On the other hand, if it is a pirate, operating on a frequency a station is licensed to use in that stations licensed service area is just stupid.

 

WTTZ-LP is licensed, not operating under a CP.

 

WTTZ-LP is not operating optimally in my opinion.  They have a ton of HAAT, a LPFM’s reference facility is 30m, they are at 151.7m, so they have a corresponding reduction of power; a LPFM’s reference power is 100W, they are operating with 4W.  4W at 151.7m have the same predicted coverage as 100W@30m, but the 100W@30m will have a much better power density so it will penetrate buildings better.  Given the crappy power density of WTTZ-LP, the person operating on 93.5 that got the NOUO would not have had a hard time getting receivers to lock onto their signal (capture effect) instead of the WTTZ-LP signal.


 
Posted : 14/10/2015 4:32 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

If you go to Google Maps there is clearly an antenna on the roof. The landlord knows.


 
Posted : 14/10/2015 4:39 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

stvcmty posted: ... 4W at 151.7m have the same predicted coverage as 100W@30m, but the 100W@30m will have a much better power density so it will penetrate buildings better. ...

To expand on this a bit...

VHF/UHF field strengths at a given location of a receive antenna mainly are functions of ERP and the propagation path.  The higher the elevation of the transmit antenna, the better the Fresnel clearance for that radiated wave -- which for a given ERP produces greater received fields than when Fresnel clearance is poor.

So in the case of WTTZ-LP, their 60 dBu field occurs at the same ~3.5-mile radius distance from the transmit antenna that would occur if it radiated 100W ERP from 30 meters HAAT.  Those two configurations therefore would have the same building penetration at the 60 dBu contour.

But at a distance of 1 mile where Fresnel clearance is adequate from a transmit antenna at 30m HAAT, the field from 100W ERP is about 82 dBu.   Fresnel clearance for 152m HAAT is even better, but due to the lower ERP (4W), the field at 1 mile is only 77 dBu.  These fields are based on the FCC F(50,50) curves for the FM broadcast band.

For perspective on the interference potential from a compliant Part 15 FM setup (250 µV/m at 3m), a 60 dBu field = 1,000 µV/m, so a compliant Part 15 FM setup would have little chance of interfering with WTTZ-LP anywhere within its 60 dBu contour.  The fact that an NOUO was issued by the FCC in this situation is rather good evidence that such a system was non-compliant with §15.239.

 

 

 


 
Posted : 14/10/2015 5:42 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

The 1 kW station on 590 kHz in this market has been dark for several months for financial reasons, yet they retain a license to a given contour.

I've been thinking about putting a carrier current station on their unused frequency for as long as it's empty, but would that violate their contour even while they're dark?


 
Posted : 14/10/2015 8:48 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

So if a part 15 station was causing interference to a commercial station in their targeted reception area then the NOUO was fully justified. A no-brainer. Why would anyone want to transmit on top of another station anyway. Here in Canada the only way you could get away with that is if you go over a station from out of country. Only stations that pay Industry canada and the CRTC for a licence are protected. So if I was interfering with a Buffalo station in Toronto...OK....they would even like that!

 

Mark


 
Posted : 14/10/2015 3:21 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

If a legal Part 15 operation is interfering with a licensed brodacst station, the FCC would not issue a NOUO but simply tell the operator to turn off the offending signal or find a way not to interfere.


 
Posted : 15/10/2015 5:07 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

garunteed he wasn't part 15, even a 100W LPFM would squash a legal part 15 fm signal like a bug within it's 60dbu contour. i take my part 15 further when hunting for an open frequency. i won't use a frquency if i'm within a stations 50dbu contour.


 
Posted : 21/10/2015 4:28 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

Before I started operating on 87.9 Mhz and I was using 96.3 Mhz in the summer time and at night usually after 6-8PM I would start to receive a country station. This station was in Jacksonville, NC which was quite a way from Elizabeth City, NC. I'd check the frequency after 6 PM or during times where tropo would occur. Sometimes it made 96.3 come in full quieting and other times not so much but because of where we live temperature inversions are very common and listeners are tuning into this station and expect to hear it. One night my Wife Debra's doctor and friend noticed that The Legacy was on and interfering with his country station. He was listening to his country station on 96.3 from a very sensitive car Radio. While he drove past the library or got near it of course my station would come in and he heard Album Rock. After my Wife has been talking about my station the doctor friend realized it was me and instead of reporting me to the FCC asked my Wife to have me move to another frequency. The only other course was to try 87.9 Mhz since I didn't have easy everyday access to the Car Radio to be sure that station was NOT coming in. This is very important for all you part 15 operators because although it was not in the contour people listened to 96.3 Mhz. If you interfere with someone's favorite station no matter how far or rather it serves the area you can be rest assured that person will try and find the proper channels to report you. Its not worth the potential visit from the FCC. It is our job as a Radio Broadcaster (even at low power) to not cause interference. If you do so your for warned because if that Doctor friend did not know it was me he WOULD had reported ME as he told my wife so as he had the number to call if I didn't change the frequency.


 
Posted : 21/10/2015 8:33 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

If you do get issued a NOUO are you done for no matter what or could you tell them that you will stop broadcasting for now on? Also if you have a part 15 transmitter I’m guessing showing them the FCC ID can help you win your case?

 

Thanks 🙂

 


 
Posted : 21/10/2015 9:02 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

It may help at least it shows you tried to follow the FCC Rules. As far as the NOUO it probably depends on the reason. If it is because your over part 15:239 it would depend on how much you were over. You could try and pleed to the FCC that you'll turn the power down or purchase a transmitter that will be more compliant and ask for another inspection in order to operate? I don't know. In the case of the operator of the talking house AM transmitter in Origon that station was defunct. Now there was another case where a boy lived in a 24 story apartment and because of the height his part 15 FM transmitter went several miles. A station complained and the FCC showed up and ordered him to stop operating. It went to court and the boy won as the judge told the FCC that they had no right to tell the boy where he could live. His station continued and he again went miles not feet. So sometimes you can win but your station has to be squeaky clean and not go over the 250 uV/M on FM or over the 100 mW and 3 meter antenna and ground lead rule for AM which the talking house actually puts out 92.5 mW (less than the maximum legal limit). But and here is the big but no one said you can not run a THICK copper pipe and that would get you out further. Thicker and shorter could work better than thinner and longer. Something to think about.


 
Posted : 21/10/2015 9:28 pm
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