BETS-1 REGULATIONS in response to Artisan's post

Thank God for people like Mark who decided to call an engineer of Decade to clarify things up. Yes you get a secretary or someone in office not familiar with the license FREE parts of the rules and you have misunderstanding. Plus it makes sense that a certified part 15 transmitter here would not be legal in Canada unless it has the certificate if the Industry Canada and or BETS-1. Just like we can't use transmitters from Canada. We could be back on as attempting to create the Announcement Transmitter service here license FREE. It would not make sense if I said “your Rocking With The Legacy” in Canada over the air and I'd be illegal. So at least we have Canada and New Zealand that we can use if and when the time is ever right to petition and we have a solid interest in it to begin with.  I just hope Artisan Radio fires up his Decade again.  All would be lost otherwise.

That's welcome news.

Now I can get back on track and support (in principle) the improvement of 15.239 to match Canada's BETS-1.

All this just in time for the next ALPB Meeting next Saturday, September 5th!

Artisan Radio was bluffed by inept bureaucrats who told him wrong.

Thelegacy wrote: Thank God for people like Mark who decided to call an engineer of Decade to clarify things up. ...

Then Carl Blare wrote:  Artisan Radio was bluffed by inept bureaucrats who told him wrong.

Do either/both of you suggest that an equipment manufacturer of AM/FM transmitters with an obvious vested interest in their sales volume is a more authoritative source for their legal use than the governmental agencies authorized to regulate them?

The Decade spokesperson may have taken a self-serving position by misrepresenting the BETS-1 rules, or the bureacrats responsible for making claims not supported in written BETS language may have been incorrectly representing their office. Either is possible.

I choose to side with the Decade man who had the greater ring of truth in his portrayal of the BETS-1 rules.

Note that Rich has always sided unquestioningly with the side of government authority despite documented decades of lies and misrepresentations coming from same.

Mr Blare wrote: Note that Rich has always sided unquestioningly with the side of government authority despite documented decades of lies and misrepresentations coming from same.

Kindly post the proof of your belief -

... Rich has always sided unquestioningly with the side of government authority despite documented decades of lies and misrepresentations coming from same ...

as it applies to unlicensed AM/FM transmissions permitted by 47 CFR Part 15, or another governmental authority.

I doubt that you can, and suggest that you not post anything you can't prove -- and which might mislead the readers of your posts.

Decade has a good Reputation and has been around for 20 years.  Also if the rules did truly change don't you think there would legally have to be a warning on the new transmitters that says "Do not address the public" somewhere in the manual by law?  And how could you call it an announcement Transmitter if you can't ANNOUNC?  Sort of an oxy moron statement.  Plus their may be some who simply just assume that is the law because of lack of education and lack of proper training.  This could either be an accident or on porpose.  Either way if I were in Canada I'd keep Rocking right along on FM.

Rich:

I am instructing you to stop inferring that equipment manufacturers or members of this hobby site are liars!

Besides implying that the Decade representative was lying, you recently suggested TheLegacy was lying about something he said.

Quit it.

I sincerely hope that you're right, Mark.

I first obtained this information from a blog posting that was linked to in the Part 15 Am & FM Facebook group.

I thought it was incorrect as well, and entered into a conversation with someone in that group.  He contacted Industry Canada in Toronto who told him the same thing.  Still convinced that he had gotten bad information, I contacted the Vancouver office of Industry Canada and was told, again, the same thing.

So something is not sitting right here.  We have three, indpendent cases of individuals being told something by Industry Canada against what a representative of Decade is telling you.

Here is essentially what I was told.  It is true that if you follow the guidelines from the CRTC re LPAS or Very Low Power Broadcasting, you don't require a CRTC license.  It is also true that if you use BETS certified equipment, you don't require an Industry Canada Broadcast Certificate (or authorization).  You can actually use non-BETS certified equipment, contrary to what Decade stated (it's in the rules), but Industry Canada must authorize it first to get that Broadcast Certificate.

What is new to me is that we were all told that if you operate a BETS transmitter, you also require a Radio Station License.

Considering that it is Industry Canada and not Decade that is the regulatory body, I think it would be prudent to do a bit more research before just blindly accepting what Decade has said (and that's not a knock against Decade).

Why don't you attempt to contact Industry Canada to see what they tell you?  I'm also going to contact Industry Canada again and challenge them on what was told to me.  Let's see if this is just a case of bad information, or it really is a new policy that even Decade is unfamiliar with.

I did a bit more digging around today.  I found a reference to Ridge Radio out of Oakville, and there is a reference to a Low Power Annouce System FM license that they obtained, with the call letters VEK565.  Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_Radio.  I then went into the Industry Canada call letter database, and found that it had indeed been assigned to Ridge Radio, for 90.7FM.

I knew that these folks existed, but hadn't really taken notice of the fact that they had official Industry Canada call letters.  And apparently an assigned frequency.  They do use a Decade MS-100, by the way.

If it is indeed the case that BETS is totally license exempt, perhaps this is optional?  Although I'm not betting on it, and not going to do anything until this entire issue is clarified.

Carl, nobody wants this to be not true more than me, but even I have to take the Decade representative's words with a grain of salt unless proven otherwise.  After all, he and his company won't have Industry Canada coming down on him (and them) for operating without a Radio Station License.

Unfortunately, I keep finding indicators that what I originally stated in this post is true, and the only bad information I was given might have been when I was starting up Artisan Radio and told no licenses were required.  Ridge Radio (referenced in an earlier post) apparently were licensed well before I began.

The problem with distrusting what transmitter manufacturers tell us is that, by association, we then cannot trust their claim of certification.

The problem with trusting what any component of the government says or does, is that the entire history of government is founded on lies, deceptions, misrepresentations and treachery.

I don't distrust Decade, just wonder if they're completely in the know.  It's one thing to build a fantastic transmitter.  It's quite another to be totally familiar with the ins and outs of bureaucracy.  Particularly something as confusing as the Canadian low power radio regulations.

I also thought that the certification was conducted by third parties.

Anyway, I rethought some things, and instead of calling Industry Canada again, I fired off an e-mail to the Vancouver office.  This way, whatever the response is, it'll be in writing.

I think its important to remember to refer to BETS-1 this could make all the difference in your response you'll get.

Michael is the president, owner, CEO. He himself has his transmitters certified in both classifications. Have in the past talked to Industry Canada on the phone and email and I got the same thing....go to the website and all Industry Canada rules from A to Z covering everything is there. BETS-1 is licence exempt when the transmitter is certified by them and the CRTC also waives needing a licence for BETS-1. It's there in black and white....but there are other BETS catagories. RSS-210 and BETS-1 are  licence free .

Michael Carrier also told me he knows of someone using a MS-100 but had an outside antenna installed on a roof and had a visit from Industry Canada and was just told you can't do this...just use it the way it was with the antenna the way it came and you're ok and that was that.

I asked can I quote you on this conversation and unhesitingly said yes.

Artisan, you could also call Decade and talk to him also and get a feel yourself and I think you'll see that he's not just saying this with a vested interest in you using his products.

I'm not going to worry about this any more....as far as I'm concerned what's written in stone in the industry Canada rules is correct. Anyone can look this up and see for themselves.

By the way....Carl and Rich be cool....no need to fight....let's just enjoy the hobby.

Mark