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Howdy,
Well, I guess this is at least partially on topic for Part 15 stuff. What I need is an inexpensive but reasonable quality wireless mic system for working inside large steel buildings.
Howdy,
Well, I guess this is at least partially on topic for Part 15 stuff. What I need is an inexpensive but reasonable quality wireless mic system for working inside large steel buildings.
My netbook with my CLEARwire USB modem works on 4G here in Friday Harbor, and 3G (via Sprint’s deal with CLEAR), but inside big steel buildings, all I can get is a couple bars of 3G, which is vulnerable to audio skips when streaming to the internet. I can usually find a few spots where the signal is better, but it means I can’t walk around with it and maintain reliable signal.
The cure would be a wireless mic where the receiver is plugged into the netbook which sits at the best modem signal spot. What I want is a plugin transmitter for any XLR mic.
BTW here is the best wireless mic system I’ve ever heard of … I’m still reading manuals and specs, trying to find out more about it:
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wls_systems/e7dd603ca6147a97/index.html
Total posts : 45366Ken, Unfortunately I do not know the answer to getting good wireless in a steel frame building. So, I’ll just talk about what small experience we’ve had.
Our Lectrosonic H187 is a block that plugs into an XLR mic, and it serves very well in the house, down to the basement, out the door for about 50-feet into the yard before it gets spotty. We’ve used it in big commercial buildings, but always in a large open area where line of sight is good.
It operates at 184.300mHz, around TV channel 8, and Lectrosonic is careful about giving a frequency that’s clear in your area. The unit is still listed as available, and I think this is one case of a waiver type situation because channel 8 is in the “core TV band,” soon to be declared Part 15 territory for approved wireless microphones (so everyone seems to believe).
The link you posted only reached a main page for Audio Technica. What is the model you were referring to?
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Total posts : 45366TYhanks for the heads-up on Lectrosonic, I’m looking now.
Hmmm … as I clicked on the URL in my own post, I too ended up on their front page. However, once I navigated back to the correct page, from then on, clicking the same URL went to the correct page. That’s very strange. Apparently, they don’t want you to go there cold without sending you through the country/language stuff.
So anyway, after you get through that to the English pages where you can find products, you can probably try the URL again and it should work. If you end up on a list of wireless systems with small pictures, try scrolling to the bottom … that’s how I originally found it. What you’re looking for is this:
SpectraPulse® Ultra Wideband (UWB) Wireless Microphone System.It seems to be amazing gear. I’m wondering if it’s Part 15 compliant in the upper MW bands. They guarantee it to have no interference issues, which has been the bane of multiple wireless mic systems. As the operating sound guy at my church, I’m recommending it for future consideration. We just installed a dual projector/dual screen system, with a third screen on the rear wall for stage personnel (usually worship leaders) to view scripts, cue lists, etc. The sound system is next, and I really want wireless stuff. None of us want a snakepit of wires lying around, it’s distracting and dangerous for situations where the choir moves on or off, to say nothing of children (you know how churches are with little ones this time of year;)).
Total posts : 45366I’ve always wondered why more people don’t spill off of church balconys, not just kids, but choir members, conductors and clergy having after hours wine.
Total posts : 45366Heh-heh, well I was brought up in the church … don’t recall anyone drinking wine before church. ‘Course then there’s sharing Communion, but a ml of grape juice never did much (physically) for me 😉
The sanctuary of this particular church was designed by an acoustic engineer. There is no balcony. It’s unequivocally the best sounding venue in the islands, the Community Theatre doesn’t even come close. Opera singers can run you out with volume with no sound reinforcement whatsoever, and things sound great wherever you sit.
But for us on Sundays, we do need some sound reinforcement. Further, I keep getting asked about recording the whole service, but mic placement is an issue at present. If we had 14 wireless mics available, like the system I mentioned could have, it could be accomplished without pulling wire to a few unnoticeable spots and still have plenty left for the leadership teams.
I have a Logitech webcam with wonderful stereo mics (and 1080p capture, 720p streaming video). It’s USB2. If I could even get just the sound into a tiny stereo wireless device, I’d be happy for the moment because I could easily clip them onto something out of sight. FM won’t do, there is no adequately quiet frequency in the FM BCB here.
Could I build one with high fidelity capability? Is there a circuit or a kit somewhere? What about a wireless USB device like wireless keyboards and mice, except for audio, and with greater range?
Total posts : 45366Good acoustical architecture is the top of indoor design, and rarely found in this age of mass assembling rectangular boxes. You are so lucky to have that virtual laboratory where you can learn and serve your congregation all at the same time.
The employment of frequency spectrum is in itself a complex puzzle in today’s saturated spectrum, and the type of mic is yet another dimension.
Have you any opinions about shot-gun mics? I bought one for a church situation, but the one time it was used a stereo (mid/side) type choir mic was left turned on, and it seemed to cancel out whatever the shot-gun was doing.
In stereo, my all time favorite is the mid/side both for excellent stereo but also for phase perfect mono mixing later on. Still today the mid/side technique is not well known outside of major symphony and label recording.
I will be watching these threads for your experiences with all of this, Ken.
Oh, and when I was an altar boy in a Catholic church I figured out where the sacristan, a Jesuit Brother, hid the key to the wine cellar where the altar wine was stocked. One day a buddy joined me in there and we had a great time with the red Malba wine. The Brother himself had a reddish face and used a lot of mouth wash, tell tale signs.
Total posts : 45366MS stereo mic’ing technique is one of my all-time favorites, because if you know how to manipulate dynamics in post, you can have a lot of sound stage image control. That’s why they often use it in film production. No other technique can offer as much control. However, generally I would not choose an MS setup for live performances, yet in a choir setup where group and mic placement are always the same, I suppose it might be OK once you’ve derived the best you can get from it … then leave it alone … if you have to, screw a plastic key lock plate over the channel to keep the knobbits from messing with it 😉
Phase cancellation works basically the same in AF as it does in RF, albeit sound travels orders of magnitude slower. Any mic picking up at least part of the same sound as another one placed some distance away means they are very likely out of phase with one another to more or less degrees, which will invariably cause some cancellation in one band and noise in another. If this occurs, the mix gets muddy, you often end up fighting yourself to clean it up.
The only semi-effective help I know is to fiddle with parametric EQ in the mixer channels to try and dovetail, i.e., sweep to find offending band, then boost/cut adjacent freqs from one channel to the other. That might help prevent phase cancellation, but it also means some sound will be subtracted from one, added to another. If it doesn’t sound right, try reversing the settings … because overtones may differ from one to another.
Total posts : 45366I used a Sony ECM-MS957 mid/side microphone on a chorus/organ in a conventional open space church with pillars and high ceilings, and the realism was stunning.
It’s been a long time since I read an article on spaced microphones for recording sound in a large space, orchestra or church, and I think the author claimed that certain distances work well between mics, based on what you were mentioning, Ken, namely the acoustic wavelength. It seems to me that in a church you’d want almost all “adjustments” to favor the very narrow bandwidth of the human voice, centered around 2.5kHz, whereas for serious music the very low frequencies enter the picture.
Close-up micing of the voice overcomes a lot of obstacles… it’s only when the mics are pulled a few feet back from the voice that phasing starts to smear the sound.
P.S. Using the “EDIT” feature I have returned with an additional thought. It is good to keep in mind that a single spoken human voice is a monaural instrument, not stereo. I had an interesting situation with a client who demanded to have a “surround sound” coming from one voice speaking from a lectern, and when I tried to explain that the monaural clarity of the voice at all listening points was the ideal goal, she puffed up her hubris and found me “argumentative.” I don’t know if she ever got her “surround sound” coming from a single voice. Maybe she is thinking of the Voice of God in a Charlton Heston Movie.
Thanks for letting me chime in and share your interesting project.
Total posts : 45366‘I had an interesting situation with a client who demanded to have a “surround sound” coming from one voice speaking from a lectern, and when I tried to explain that the monaural clarity of the voice at all listening points was the ideal goal, she puffed up her hubris and found me “argumentative.”‘
Some people can’t handle being told anything other than what they want to hear. Perhaps the thing to do is avoid the explanation and just say “yes ma’am”. In this case, if the venue had (or could have been set up with) rear speakers, she may have just wanted to be sure people in the back or balconies could hear her. You could have measured the distance, ran the numbers, and gotten away with inserting a simple delay line to them … everything is still mono (as opposed to creating an actual surround sound network). I can’t see how she would ever know the difference.
The church I spoke of has a 32ms delay line to the ceiling speakers (I abhor ceiling speakers, but…) in the gathering room, which can be used for overflow (Christmas, Easter, etc.), i.e., folding doors open it to the sanctuary. The community theatre is about the same with side speakers aligned with the last few rows and the balcony.
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