- July 24, 2018 at 4:14 am #105511
A recent post on another site laments the probable passing of the PIRATE Radio Act as a threat to Part 15 Operators. The FCC and its engineers know the difference between a legit Part 15 operation and a full blown Pirate radio operation. They also know the difference between someone attempting to follow the rules but may have made a technical error with regard to the installation.
The sky is not falling but if you’re of a certain political mindset then its important to maintain that boogeyman in the background mentality to insure your sycophants continue to follow your 40 plus years of exciting the ether.July 24, 2018 at 7:26 am #105513MarkModerator
Total posts : 564
Thing is the part about landlords being an accomplice and they don’t know the difference between legal and illegal, they will just say no transmitting of any kind out of ignorance.
Who in the general population knows about part 15 or BETS(Canada)?
Most think that ANY transmitting on the FM or AM bands is illegal.
They will become judge and jury.July 24, 2018 at 8:08 am #105514
Now that I’ve got a 10 Ft antenna erected beside my house I do get people who question about the legality of the So-Called part 15 rules and I recite 15:219 and part 15:221 (For Neutral Injection Carrier Current.
On the part 15 AM&FM Hobby Broadcasting forum when I among many were talking about Carrier Current to be specific Neutral Injection and the virtues of how it bypasses the transformers allowing a 2 mile coverage or more along the power lines. I was told by a few that this type of transmitting is illegal and that its basically making the power line into a HUGE antenna. Then I told them about 15:209 which went mostly by field strength and reminded them that even if that were true according to 15:209 there is no antenna restriction or ground restriction rule. So even if your antenna is 2 miles long as long as that field strength is met at the distance specified away from your super long antenna its still legal. It got some to think after that.
I know commercial broadcasters who HATE hobby broadcasting may troll Facebook in particular looking for some poor sap to nab. But knowing the rules just like the Bible you can sometimes SHOVE it right back in their faces.
It’s a WAR between Hobby Broadcasters and the entities who HATE IT
There is no chicken little syndrome here. AM however is ignored in compared to FM unless there is a real problem. The KENC station everyone keeps referring to when discussing ground was a blatant attempt to see what he could get away with and because of the back and forth taunting it ended up badly. But as I’ve said keeping your signal away from high profile Radio market areas is your best course of action if you don’t want to ruffle any feathers. But too much advertising of your station on Facebook may attract an inspection of your operation. Your LandLord most likely will get paranoid if they see the feds at your house rather or not they tell you to cease and desist your operation or not. No LandLord wants to feel they are setting themselves up of a possible liability because of a non compliant AM transmitter install. So if things keep going along without a peep from the Hobby Broadcasting community your hobby WILL be crushed like a bug. HEED MY WARNING!!!!!July 24, 2018 at 10:35 am #105516ArtisanRadioParticipant
Total posts : 515
I don’t know how to say this more plainly.
THERE IS NO WAR AGAINST HOBBY BROADCASTING!
The only ‘war’, if you can call it that, I call it action, is the FCC against pirate broadcasting.
There are no entities, as far as I know, that hate hobby broadcasting and hobby broadcasters. If there is hate around, and I also wouldn’t call it that, it’s the licensed broadcasters against pirates, for the pirates are operating illegally, potentially causing interference, and taking away listeners and advertising dollars from those operating legally (and spending lots of money in the process keeping legal).
It’s talk like this that causes the real confusion between pirates and hobby broadcasting. Hobby broadcasting is legal. Pirate broadcasting is not. Why worry about what happens with pirate broadcasters, particularly in a hobby broadcasting forum?
The Williamson pirate station should worry. Hobby broadcasters attempting to stay within the rules, and certainly those using Part 15 certified transmitters, needn’t worry at all.
AMRadioLegend is correct, in my opinion. The FCC understands that someone operating a 25 watt transmitter is a pirate, and they will eventually likely feel the wrath of the Pirate bill. Someone operating a certified Whole House 3 (as an example) may have a signal strength above legal limits (as Tim discovered was entirely possible during his testing), but there’s a world of difference between going out of your way and using a certified transmitter (such as the Whole House 3), and a blatantly illegal one (such as a 25 watt Amazon Chinese special); there’s no way that they will be treated identically.
I also doubt that a landlord will be held responsible for the illegal actions of a tenant, unless the landlord has been warned and does nothing about it. It’s true that some landlords may shy away from antennas, but then they do now, particularly for insurance reasons. Amateur radio operators have the same issues in renting.
I believe that it’s time for the fear and paranoia to cease, both here and elsewhere.
Driving a car opens the door to far more legal peril and potential damage than hobby broadcasting, and yet most people think nothing of jumping behind the wheel. How many continuously review the latest driving statutes and laws before starting to drive?
As long as hobby broadcasters take reasonable care in their approach to transmitting, and attempt to stay within the rules, they should have nothing to fear. Only the true pirates need to be afraid.July 24, 2018 at 11:26 am #105517Carl BlareParticipant
Total posts : 1540
Broadcasting from a Rental Property
In the remarks by Artisan Radio he said: “ I also doubt that a landlord will be held responsible for the illegal actions of a tenant, unless the landlord has been warned and does nothing about it. It’s true that some landlords may shy away from antennas, but then they do now, particularly for insurance reasons.”
Having previously rented a location for my recording business I know this about tenant responsibility: the tenant (renter) cannot make physical changes to the structure or landscape without the express consent of the landlord, and physical additions become the property of the landlord.
An antenna is a physical change.
An enterprising landlord would consider the possibility of increasing the rental income by offering to host an antenna which had been inspected by a professional broadcast consultant for safety and suitability.
When moving day comes the radio hobbyist should be obligated by contract to purchase, remove, and do appropriate patch work to cover traces of the antenna.
Another consideration the landlord should consider is whether the radio operation is a hobby or business. Two things: the building might not be zoned for commercial, and business rent is typically higher than residential rent.July 24, 2018 at 5:48 pm #105520RichParticipant
Total posts : 189
“Hobby broadcasters attempting to stay within the rules, and certainly those using Part 15 certified transmitters needn’t worry at all.”
IIRC, there have been cases where persons using Part 15 certified transmitters have had FCC problems. Reportedly KENC was one example.July 25, 2018 at 4:31 am #105524
I think one can make an argument that Ken was not trying to comply with the rules, especially when he became combative with the FCC Agent.July 25, 2018 at 5:04 am #105526RichParticipant
Total posts : 189
I think one can make an argument that Ken was not trying to comply with the rules, …
As I recall, he first stated that he had followed the advice/drawings supplied by the manufacturer of that transmitter when he installed it, not expecting that by doing so he could become non-compliant with FCC Part 15.July 25, 2018 at 7:40 am #105529
Carl Blare has a very valid point about commercial VS Hobby Broadcasting!
I had not thoughtt of posting this but my Landlord and I spoke about that when I erected my forst antenna and continue now on AM. At first she listened to my Internet stream to get a feel for my station and my programming because she wanted to know if I was broadcasting anything objectionable to the neighborhood. Second after liking my station there was a concern about the Internet ads I was broadcasting every 6th to 9th song and here is why:
My complex is known for renting to the elderly and handicapped tenants in which many are on section 8. There is a church that brings food to the tenants who are eligible to receive them. This includes Food Stamp recipients. The concern as you may guess is this: What will people think of a Radio Station at this property playing Walmart, Geico, and other such ads. Remember she didn’t know at the time that the Internet ads would NOT be played on the dial because I was going to use my non public link for the STL to the transmitter. I had to assure her that these ads would NOT be played on air but only on the Internet to pay for the astronomical cost of the RIAA’s ilk required by law.
Explaining this did take some time and effort on m part to get this approved. After I gave her the non public link she did see it was a hobby as I asked for donations to support the Hobby Radio station and again after every 9th song the term Hobby was mentioned so you knew this was not a commercial for profit station. ONLY after this my antenna was approved to be erected on the property.
Speaking Of Physical Change!
You can’t miss my antenna when you pull into the parking lot of the complex as it has a 10Ft antenna on top of a 6 Ft fiberglass pole. The antenna is well above the roof to avoid obstruction and right now it is aluminum tape wrapped around PVC pipe and below is a ammunition box with the Sean Cuthbert TX inside. People see it and know my house is where The Legacy is broadcasting from. It has been the talk of Deltaville. In fact to find the place my LandLord tells prospective renters to tune to 1640 AM and when you hear Rock Music you know your close to the complex to consider living there.
No Way My LandLord can pretend not to know the station!
If things got nasty there was absolutely NO WAY she could pretend not to know the station. She can’t say “I thought it was a TV antenna” or “I thought it was a Ham Radio antenna” when you go inside my apartment I always have a Radio monitoring the station while I’m in the house and a resident at the complex monitors when I’m gone and if there is dead air they go outside to the porch and pull the extension cord for it means my STL link got interrupted or if there is severe lightning they pull the plug to avoid a possible lightning strike that could cause damage to the complex. So the “I don’t know” phrase would not fly in any case here.
<b>Now if hypothetically if the FCC had a complaint and there is an issue while I was gone what do you think the agent would do? Duhh… Hello Mrs Blank This is Agent X and I represent the FCC</b>
That is right the FCC knocks or calls the landlord via the number posted on the sign out front. And guess what the LandLord is advised that she has a tenant running an operation that is in violation of the FCC rules for non licensed broadcasting and the operation is to be terminated Johnny on the spot do not wait for the tenant to get home. This is where liability comes in.July 25, 2018 at 8:42 am #105535
Why would an FCC Agent advise your landlord that you’re in violation when you’re not? That doesn’t make any sense. The FCC doesn’t shut things down automatically because of a complaint.
Also simply pulling the plug does not reduce the probability of a lightning strike.July 25, 2018 at 10:17 am #105536
“Why would an FCC Agent advise your landlord that you’re in violation when you’re not? That doesn’t make any sense. The FCC doesn’t shut things down automatically because of a complaint.”
Even if you follow by the letter of the law part 15:209, 15:219, or even Carrier Current 15:221 do note that if you cause Interference to a Licensed Broadcaster you can be ordered to SHUT DOWN UNTIL THE ISSUE CAN BE RESOLVED!!
All it takes if for someone to scramble their caller ID and make their number to look like its coming from a licensed broadcaster and your toast. It happens more often than you think.July 25, 2018 at 11:43 am #105537Carl BlareParticipant
Total posts : 1540
TheLegacy As An All-Knowing Sage
He said: “It happens more often than you think“, claiming that people charade as a licensed station so they can complain about a legal low power station.
How would TheLegacy “know” this?
Given the limited range of part 15 stations and the small number os part 15 stations on the air, it is mathematically improbable that any one would have the special knowledge of how to generate the phone number of a licensed station, complain to the FCC, AND get a station shut down (“and you’re toast”, he said).
If this scenario happened even once since the invention of caller ID it would be remarkable.July 25, 2018 at 11:46 am #105538ArtisanRadioParticipant
Total posts : 515
The original point of the thread was that the Pirate act is not going to affect Part 15 broadcasters any more than existing laws do now.
The point was brought up that landlords might be reluctant to rent to anyone broadcasting, as they could be held responsible under the new law.
My point was that landlords already are reluctant (and rightly so) to let renters erect outside antennas. Not because the FCC could come after them, but because there are liability and insurance issues – anything outside the house is their responsibility.
It sounds like Thelegacy has done his due diligence in contacting his landlord, and getting the appropriate permission. I would hope that he has the appropriate lightning protection on his antenna (i.e., it is properly routed to electrical ground according to electrical code).
For something like interference concerns, particularly for a residence, I would think that the broadcaster would be contacted long before contacting the landlord.July 26, 2018 at 7:36 am #105559Tim EmersonParticipant
Total posts : 8
As a new homeowner i’m not too worried about issues of this type.my only concern right now is figuring out the best spot for my transmitter.
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