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Hi guys!
Doug here. I just got my new SpitFire AM Transmitter in the mail from the UK. It’s on the air on 1500. I have the wire antenna taped to a piece of wood trim. It’s leaning against the wall. With NO earth ground, and the internal ATU turned OFF, my whole four-plex, plus my neighbors around me receive a loud, clear signal! And NO HUM!! That’s a first!
I tested it using my laptop. I need to find a spare mixer to feed it from my Orban 424A Comp/Limiter. So far, I love this little thing!
Doug
1500 am KLW
Total posts : 45366Sounds like it doing good with no ground.
Mark
Total posts : 45366Great to hear it’s going, I thought it was probably a decent transmitter, being that the Spitfire has been on the market for some years now.
What did you do to get it going? It might help other Spitfire users. I saw that you changed the frequency to 1500 and bypassed the internal matching circuit, and now it’s working and reaching 4 buildings from indoors.
Depending if the Spitfire has a audio level control on the input, you might need a resistive pad to drop the Orban’s output level from pro to consumer. I don’t know what the Spitfire can take, but it’s something to watch out for until you know.
Total posts : 45366Yeah, The SpitFire has NO input level. The Orban has no working output level. So I drive a cassette deck and use the headphone out to pad down the level. It works good! Loud, clean signal! I’m impressed.
What I did was, changed the frequency to 1500 and switched OFF the internal ATU. I have an old coax in the wall. I wonder if the shield is grounded…
Doug
Total posts : 45366I wonder if the Spitfire grounds through the power supply, does the manual say anything about that? Glad to hear you are having fun with AM. Same here, SStran AMT3000 running 24/7 on 1620 AM with talk and Heavy Metal Whether the neigh bores like it or not.
Barry at BBR 1620 AM
Total posts : 45366Nope, Barry. The power supply is a two prong. I have NO idea how this thing plays with NO hum! My TH 5.0 was a hum box! My SSTRAN had a slight hum as well. This thing…dead air is a slight hiss. Amazing…
Doug
Total posts : 45366It’s easy to drive this thing to distortion. I have no way to measure modulation, since my tuner was removed temporarily. The Spitfire has no GAIN or MODULATION contols. It’s pretty much straight in, and drive it till it distorts and then back it off. The Big Boys don’t do it that way…
I need to find a decent AM Mod Monitor, cheap. A Belar would be epic! Right now, I have a Denon tuner driving a Sanyo Cassette deck that’s locked into Record mode. I find a local AM station and set levels to 100%. I then match mine to that. It works.
But this, I have to set by ear. I got lucky, I guess…
Doug
Total posts : 45366You know if there was a way to get some actual range with that Spitfire I’d switch to that for my AM Transmitter. I have a TH5 and its a piece of pure T junk as far as I’m concerned. The audio sounds like a Fisher price toy transmitter. I’ve even heard a Plannet DJ from the Sears catalog back in the 70’s sound better than that horrible thing.
The fact that the spitfire doesn’t hum is a major plus for it. I wonder how much one costs? Maybe I should try that one out with a wire connected to a 6 Ft piece of copper pipe. If it has a built in ATU I could tune up to it just fine. All i’d need is a few inches of wire to connect to the pipe. Maybe simply a roach clip or just have a screw on the bottom of the pipe and screw the bare wire into the copper pipe.
With no hum and good audio at least I’d have HQ audio. Worst comes to worst I’d do the same and have a old cassette deck with the VU meters on it and match the meters so that my station is close to the volume of the bigger stations. Even the old turn till it distorts and back off ¼ turn does work in a pinch. Its what many low power stations did in the day when people actually could hear and appreciated good audio but didn’t have the mega bucks.
I suppose Auydacity and its meters too could work for setting modulation and comparing it to the bigger stations. Get a close match and your all set.
Total posts : 45366You can deduce your modulation level by listening several channels away for clipping of the carrier, with your signal at a loud, but not overpowering level on a radio.
If you’re on 1500, then listen on 1530 and higher, or 1470 for splatter, it varies with how much overmod you are.
Total posts : 45366Wow, thanks guys! I do need pro equipment to do it right. I ain’t paying a thousand dollars, though…
Hey, this blows away the TH, sound-wise. Now, If I made a serious loaded coil whip, and used the internal ATU, I bet this thing would make it downtown! The TH did that no problem, but sounded like a telephone.
But I ain’t done with the SSTRAN. I gotta fix my problem first. But I have enthusiastic neighbors. So I run the Spitfire. And I like that it’s made in the UK. They are known for excellence in broadcast equipment. My Veronica 30-Watt FM Stereo transmitter is a fine example. Although not on the air, it sets the bar. Rock solid and clean!
This Spitfire is in that league. Although bare minimum, it holds its own! Literally plug & play, assuming you don’t change the 1440 kHz frequency. Up here, 1500 is clear. And I am amazed at no hum! There is no Earth ground up here. I got a two-way plug on the power supply! Baffling.
Doug
Total posts : 45366“It’s pretty much straight in, and drive it till it distorts and then back it off. The Big Boys don’t do it that way…”
You would be very, very surprised. LOL!
Total posts : 45366Radio transmissions do odd and funny things when over-modulation occurs. Imagine a 50,000 watt blowtorch like WRKO winging it! Ha!
I see the AMM3 Belar just went for $775 on the auction site. Too much. My retirement pension can’t cover anything like that. Oh well. That’s why we wing it! Ha!
Doug
Total posts : 45366The full power I’m at doesn’t have a mod monitor either, modulation levels are set by cranking up the audio till the transmitter shuts off, then back it down from there till it stays on. There are a few stations here that have either no mod monitor or a broken one. The biggest stations definately have the correct gear however but don’t be surprised if your local mom and pop just “wings” it lol!
Total posts : 45366“,,,modulation levels are set by cranking up the audio till the transmitter shuts off, then back it down from there till it stays on.”
Awww MAN! Mark Osbourne would go balllistic! He is a station owner who has always done it right. By the book. I learned a lot when he built KISS 94. Imagine setting modulation levels by cranking up the audio till the transmitter shuts off, then back it down from there till it stays on! Haa haha! That would only happen ONCE! LOL!
Doug
Total posts : 45366The reason I asked about the Spitfire grounding through the power supply, was that the SStran offers the option to ground through the walwart power supply using a jumper.
If the jumper is not used, the sstran will ground through the antenna ground connection.
EDITED TO INCLUDE SCREENSHOT:
Barry
Total posts : 45366Interesting, Barry. The SpitFire has a two prong plug. Nothing is attached to the terminal marked Earth Ground. Yet the audio is clean and hum-free. All over the building, across the street, next door. It must be grounded through one prong somehow.
I still have testing to do. I want to try setting the ATU to the wire. I may need the ground then. A coil & whip are next. For now, this thing WORKS. I am impressed.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Many years ago, before building codes were changed for electrical service in homes, outlets would only accept two prongs and in some cases the ground was strapped to the neutral and sometimes there was no ground. I’ll take grounded 3 prong outlets for $300 Alex.
The SStran power supply is routing the ground to the neutral prong which can be bypassed of course. I have noted in the past on this forum that part of my coverage is extended by the RF coupling with the power lines despite being on the opposite end of the house away from the breaker box.
On a good day my signal covers 1/4 mile via the power lines running along the road I live on and the main road up to where two or three transformers stop my signal cold.
But considering I live on a mountain, this is pretty amazing.
Sounds like you’re on the right track though and more importanly, enjoying that Spitfire.
Have Fun,
Barry of BBR 1620 AM
In the smokey Appalachian Region of Kentucky
Total posts : 45366You can try a power supply with a 3 prong connection with the ground like a computer monitor “block” style 3 prong power supply or other adaptor with the 3rd prong(but block style is the best) and see if any different. Most of these kind come in 12 volts.
Mark
Total posts : 45366mighty1650, in the commercial radio biz, Classic Rock is *rock*: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Ozzy, Tom Petty, Stones, etc.
Classic Hits is what we used to call “Oldies”. It can be the Bee Gees, Grass Roots, even the Monkees.
Not that the world will end if the terms are used interchangably. 🙂
Total posts : 45366Now tell me does the Spitfire have a external antenna/ATU jack like the TH? If it has a built in ATU I can imagine you can tune up to just about anything maybe up to 8 foot? I wonder if I can use a short piece of wire connected to a 6 Ft copper pipe and get good range?
I assume this transmitter is fully assembled? Let me know about the range when connected to a good outside and inside antenna. If I want to transmit on 1630 Khz what do I do? This thing sounds like something I should try and get with my Radio station donations. How much is it?
Total posts : 45366$107 delivered on eBay. Fully built, plug & play. I taped the 10 foot wire to a piece of wooden siding trim, and it’s leaning against the wall. It’s terminated with an RCA plug. That alone covers this fourplex building, the houses across the street, and next door on both sides. No further though.
A tuned whip, mounted out the window (2nd floor) should hit downtown, two blocks away, like the TH did. I still am building my SSTRAN 3000. I have a feeling this performs in a similar way.
“Now tell me does the Spitfire have a external antenna/ATU jack like the TH?”
No, Legend, just an RCA jack. Same as the SSTRAN.
“If it has a built in ATU I can imagine you can tune up to just about anything maybe up to 8 foot? I wonder if I can use a short piece of wire connected to a 6 Ft copper pipe and get good range?”
10 foot copper pipe. Or a 9+ foot with connecting wire. The ground wire, I might run a cable out the window to a ground rod. Eff the stupid ground lead rule. I’ll just take the whole thing down if I get a visit. No biggie. I just wanna see what works best.
This thing will cover a good size apartment building as it is! So will the SSTRAN! These are a better deal than the Talking House “i.AM Radio” improved audio version at $295. Smaller, too.
No question the SSTRAN is superior, but the SpitFire comes BUILT at the same price! I like the challenge of a kit. But I needed to get back on the air ASAP! And the clarity now, compared to the old TH 5.0, is night and day!
Now, there is a Tube Transmitter at $264 on eBay right now. If you read the description, you see why I am interested:
“…a 3 tube AM Broadcast transmitter as pictured. Use it with your antique or vintage AM radio to listen to your favorite music. The unit can be operated with various sources and produces a clean full range audio sound when connected to a audio line level (even at extremely low levels) or speaker level source.I have built many of these over the years for individuals to use with their antique radios both here in this country and for export to other countries and overseas. The Broadcaster makes it possible for owners to listen to their favorite music or programs wirelessly and is especially usefull for radios that do not have a separate audio input to use.It has two controls: Off/On Volume – to turn the unit on and adjust the level to match the sound source that it is connected to and Tuning – to select a frequency for the radio to receive the signal. It includes an audio cable with two male RCA phono type connectors for mono or stereo sources and can be adapted where necessary and a 9.8 foot antenna wire.The unit has a polarized power cord and power transformer for safety, built from more than 65 new and NOS parts and incorporating four stages – three tube based in operation using a shunt feed Hartley oscillator, modulator, carrier control and output amplifier.I settled on the original design back in the 90’s with considerable refinements to provide much cleaner and more effective output power with wideband audio response (not limited to 5Khz) for a crisp alive sound but still have the warmth of sound in tube based operation.The Broadcaster is extremely frequency stable. Once you have set the frequency that you want it will not drift from when first turned on each time and will not drift after having been on for hours or days. There is no interaction between the antenna and the surroundings including people.You can pick up the antenna and hold it in your hand and the Broadcaster will not change frequency. It can be safely operated 24 hours a day 7 days a week. It does produces a noticeable amount of heat but allowing for normal use with proper ventilation.I began hand building them in the 90’s one at the time and all of them essentially the same in looks and operation, performance and durability, the quality of my craftsmanship and a proven design.Examples of audio sources the Broadcaster can be connected to are: iPads, iPods, nano’s, PC audio: Lap, Notebook, Desk Top, Cell phone audio and Tuners, CD players, Cassette players, Stereo and Component receivers (including vintage equipment).The Broadcaster is legal to use without a license relating to FCC rules Part 15 in that the transmitter may generate no more than 100 milliwatts (1/10 of 1 watt). Under these FCC rules the transmitter has a limited range on average 40 feet. The signal received by the radio is tuned in just like tuning in a regular radio station.Using just two controls – one to adjust the volume to the source it is connected to and the other control to select a location (frequency) for the radio to tune in the signal, the unit is very easy to operate and includes easy to follow setup instructions.I have been collecting and restoring electronics for over 50 years. My background in broadcast engineering was life long until retirement.”40 feet? For that price? LOL! That’s a NOPE!Doug
Total posts : 45366Right Dugger, those tube rigs seem to be more about nostalgia, if you’re an old radio collector, you’ll want something with tubes. It would be fine around the house but isn’t crystal locked, so there would be some drift and the carrier most likely will have FM on it too, as well as AM.
Old radios wouldn’t care as much with continuous tuning and wide IF bandwidths. I see those “patterned after” transmitters as more like collecter art than something serious.
Total posts : 45366These things look very interesting!
(I’m new to this page, and I am 12 years old)
If I get this, what is the range with the supplied antenna outside? I don’t want to waste £60 for it to reach short distances. Any measurement. (Preferable meters or miles/km)
Total posts : 45366As is, wire antenna, and internal ATU turned OFF…maybe 100 feet. Less at night. Now with a coil loaded and tuned whip antenna, ground-mounted with radials…maybe a mile. Maybe more.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Hi Europedx and welcome! 12 is around when I started to get into radio broadcasting too, using a build it yourself kit transmitter from an electronics store. It had a board and all of the parts to plug into the holes and wire underneath, it wasn’t too hard. I could broadcast all through my house and down the block a little way, not bad!
Since I started that way, I think everyone should build their first transmitter from parts. 🙂 Really, it is a good way to start out and you’ll learn more.
Besides that, it can be very cheap to hack out a circuit yourself. Look for MRAM 1500’s transmitter here on the site that uses just 3 main parts. That costs something like 5 dollars/pounds.
Good luck, and what kind of show are you planning to do?
By the way, here’s MRAM 1500’s transmitter:
http://part15.us/forum/part15-forums/transmitter-talk/nifty-am-transmitter-three-components
Here’s the project on a science page:
Total posts : 45366Seriously, we cannot expect any serious Community Radio with Part 15, unless we:
1. Invest money. One CANNOT be broke. Find another hobby.
2. Develop and maintain an ideal condition for your SSTRAN, SpitFire, ProCaster or Hamilton RangeMaster. Mounting, tuned, correct antenna and ground, etc.
3. Forget FM. It ain’t happening (legally).
If you are galvanized to get 1-3 miles from a transmitter…forget Part 15. If you are not willing to experiment, tweak and try stuff, forget Part 15. Most importantly, if you’re not willing to obey FCC Rules, definately forget Part 15! It’s all or none. Break one rule, ya may as well have gone Pirate!
The SpitFire, SSTRAN and other micro AM transmitters will NOT make you a broadcaster. ONLY with a LICENSE can you do that. Then you BUY a 1Kw AM somewhere and really do it!
Myself, after 40+ years in the business, I like the hobby aspect of it.
Doug
Total posts : 45366First of all welcome to the new member Europedx!
@ Radiodugger….I think this new forum member is in Europe and in his country the rules could be different than the FCC in the USA.
In Canada we can almost get on FM the same range as you can with AM in the USA.
With AM the only way to get the range like up to a mile is with the expensive elaborate set up and needing to have your own property to do it.
The new member is 12 years old and maybe doesn’t have the money or expertise to do what you are suggesting.
Mark
Total posts : 45366“If your broke forget part 15”
That is the type of attitude that another website had and he ran a few good people off the hobby. You CAN get donations and a sponsor if you are in the right place and know what you’re doing. Even get others to be “repeater” stations for your broadcast so you can reach a wider audience. Already a restaurant in Deltaville likes my station but has issues with my station fading when people walk near it. I can go AM with the antenna near the business or on top of it and they will hear it better. I could get a Procaster and have the antenna above the business and then I’d cover Deltaville. I saw a youtube video of one that got 2 miles and that would cover my little town. Or I can modify a Archer Space Patrol base station as I have a friend who will help me with it. On Ebay you can get them for $7 and beat the Talking House transmitter all to hell. Plus that base station would transmit through a series of coat hangers twisted together up to 10 feet (I did it on CB). So I anm looking into this as a way to do it. The Yapper CB (Bike toy CB) can also be modified for AM and still sound better than the Talking House. And you know what they modulate FM onto an AM carrier so guess what you may be able to modify them for AM Stereo. So $7 for the TX and buy a few parts and then set it up for Stereo. And to boot you spend far less than $100.
Also I’m broke because of my disability and because of people who took advantage of me. I started Rich like some of you where as I could buy a 7K stereo without blinking an eye and most of the time pay CASH MONEY. I could have had a Rangemaster or Procaster and mixers and everything it takes to make a kicking A Radio station and get out.
One thing about this hobby is that I don’t see people trying to help the average apartment dweller who may have had some hard luck and now can’t put up a huge antenna. My landlord has allowed me to bend some rules as long as the antenna is not an eye sour. So worst case I can get 100 coat hangers and put them inside a plastic pipe and run my modified Archer Space Patrol base station and maybe get out 2 miles with that. We’ll see cuz I may have my friend help me do it just like he did.
Total posts : 45366Here ya go 2 1/2 miles on AM and part 15.
Part 2
Total posts : 45366Very impressive! Didn’t think that was possible. Watched video.
But note that that type of set up requires having your own house and large property, not only that but a way of getting the power for the transmitter and audio to the transmitter from the house. Where do you get the radial system?
Just saying that not all have the place to do this and this is not typical.
Also I’d like to see what happens when a big storm comes and 1million volts from lightning strikes.
Not trying to be negative here but this set up is not an option for everyone.
I’m sure that if I was in a rural area in the right location with all flat terrain and set up my BETS-1 Decade transmitter 20 feet up or on a roof and powered it with 30 feet of extension cord and audio feed, in a weather proof box I’d get some very good range also.
You have to be fortunate enough to be in the right place and have the access to do the perfect set up.
Mark
Total posts : 45366I always get atleast 5 1/2 miles of coverage during the day from my AM. About 1 mile at night, decent coverage is certainly doable on AM.
I kinda have to agree with Dugger Legacy, it takes a very good chunk of change to build a significant AM footprint. It can be done cheaply but I’ve found coverage is nearly directly related to cost.
Total posts : 45366The key for this kind of range:
– outdoor antenna, with low(er) loss pipe & coil (although technically his ground lead is over the legal limit – the transmitter appears to be mounted at about 6 feet above ground)
– rural, so minimizes noise
– radials in addition to ground rods (lots of radials, 4 ground rods)
– flat terrain, few man-made obstructions
– most likely a sensitive car receiver (although we don’t have any info on it, at least in the first video – I didn’t watch the 2nd).
You’re not going to get the same range in urban or even semi-urban environments. Or with indoor antennas.
Total posts : 45366RE: Reply 28 of this thread
I always get at least 5 1/2 miles of coverage during the day from my AM. …
That is much better than expected, even for a Part 15 AM system installed in open country having the highest value of soil conductivity present in continental North America (30 mS/m).
Below is a chart showing the fields produced for various distances and soil conductivities from a Part 15 AM system installed and operated in full compliance with FCC §15.219.
A very good receive system in an area of very low radio noise level and no co- or adjacent-channel interference might produce listenable/useful (but noisy) output audio from an arriving field intensity of 50 µV/m.
The chart shows that at 2 miles, 50 µV/m is met or exceeded only for 15 and 30 mS/m earth conductivity.
Field intensities at distances of 3 miles and beyond are significantly below 50 µV/m for all values of soil conductivity.
Total posts : 45366“The SpitFire, SSTRAN and other micro AM transmitters will NOT make you a broadcaster.”You are correct! Even a 50 KW torch does not a broadcaster make. That’s simply the hardware which makes the “broadcaster” available beyond the sound of their voice.
There is a joy in tinkering with radio. At 10 years of age I was “broadcasting”. Yes, it was only within my parents house but just as Rush Limbaugh, our Remco Caravelle transmitters provided us with the means to “broadcast” our programs to radios in far distant places like the basement, kitchen or garage. By definition, that made us broadcasters.
I ran into the same narrow point of view when I put our City LPFM on the air. Our station is a staion with no format. We don’t fit the commercial boys idea of a pigeon-holed top 40, classical or hip-hop station. They said we were a Pirate station. They said we wouldn’t last 6 months. Over two years later, here we are providing news, weather, music and PSA’s. Most importantly our high school developed a “broadcast” curriculum and students produce a one hour show which airs weekdays.
And you know what? I get favorable comments about our “no format” station from our listeners. Maybe it’s a niche market share but they are listening.
Broadcasts may be statewide, local or just within a few hundred feet but you are a broadcaster by virtue of the fact you are sending content by radio regardless of the coverage area.
Total posts : 45366“Broadcasts may be statewide, local or just within a few hundred feet but you are a broadcaster by virtue of the fact you are sending content by radio regardless of the coverage area.”
I agree, it’s still broadcasting.
Total posts : 45366MRAM 1500, I had similar humble beginnings with kit transmitters on AM and then FM, wanting to be a DJ and it was fun with friends, and getting together to broadcast, and I’d draw up playlists and announcements, but usually it would degenerate into laughs and getting silly, and we’d have to just shut down.
Even in the early times we were thinking about more range, getting a signals to a friend’s house down the street, and at one time it was a constant thing to think about range and “getting out”.
I put longer wires on the AM transmitter, we upped the voltage on the FM from one to 3 nine volt batteries in series to get out more.
Even now it seems like so much is about range, and when I get a new rig, one of the first things that’s done after tuneup, is to go for a range check!
These days I’m not thinking about being a star on the airwaves, but I want the range, so that people can have a chance of hearing my music selection of “anything goes” mixed bag, and my engineering efforts at getting good, low distortion sound.
The payoff isn’t in 30 feet of range, the self satisfaction of hearing what’s been achieved is good, but it’s only part of it, now I think others might benefit from the broadcasts, and if they don’t like it, they can change the station. It’s just like having a website, on offer but no one needs to go there or stay if they don’t want to.
I’m glad that your LPFM is doing that mixed bag format, I love that kind and used to hear it on small stations, like 10 watt FMs that didn’t fuss over the music, just played it. Radio went so commercial that variety was stamped out by formatics. If the underground stations could have held out, we’d have a listening audience that might understand music and program appreciation more these days, a more demanding and interactive audience.
Sure the conglomerates of national broadcasters have stations that are number one rated, and it’s because they control all of the top signals, and the alternatives have been drowned out.
That’s a reason I think it’s great to have a multiverse LPFM like that, it will revive radio’s sleepyhead listeners that there is something else out there.
Total posts : 45366“Our station is a staion with no format. We don’t fit the commercial boys idea of a pigeon-holed top 40, classical or hip-hop station.”
Mram,
Come to think of it, many of the high schools stations in Southern Ohio were open format and did have listeners. Some of those listeners were pround parents, others were die hard Alumni who love their school station.
Scarlet Oaks Voc. School WJVS-FM (D) was more of a top 40 station spinning 45’s, not sure we had many listeners besides the ladies in the office upstairs, i played classic rock after school for an hour and half before we signed off the station and turned the frequency over to WAIF-FM.
My high school, Clermont Northestern had a station for several years that shared a frequency with WOBO-FM Batavia Ohio. That format was all over the place, i didn’t get involved with WCNE-FM but was later on WOBO-FM as a volunteer DJ.
As i said, not many high school stations left in the Greater Cincinnati Area which is a shame.
Down here there are few student run stations, even one on AM with a few thousand watts.Barry of BBR 1620
Total posts : 45366Somehow balance is achieved, city range is smaller, with more buildings and noise, but the population is concentrated closer to your antenna, where rural has the distance, but fewer residents in homes or driving along. It seems to be the same with Carrier Current broadcasting as with antenna, city to rural.
I think part fifteen radio is great for a small neighborhood that has its own identity, especially if it’s a rural place, like a one horse town with a strong identity that the station can lock into.
It’s different for a station close to a major city, lots of high power stations that get all the attention, but that’s where a neighborhood station can work, because people can feel assimilated in cities, and might like a small station that talks about what’s happening around their block, though it takes foot work and staying in touch with the beat of the street.
Total posts : 45366Virtually all of the successful serious (or semi-serious) business-oriented Part 15 ventures that I’ve seen have been in small towns/rural areas, where there is a strong sense of community. The population (or lack thereof) is inversely proportional to the enthusiasm with which such a station is received.
Total posts : 45366Wow! That video shows what the SSTRAN can do! I would say that the Spitfire is comparable.
I still have to experiment with the Spitfire. Try the ATU and tune it. 5 1/2 miles? My gosh. 1 mile @ night?? I ain’t even gonna ask…
Doug
Total posts : 45366Since this thread is about The SpitFire, I figure I’ll throw an update in…
I found out my day signal reaches 5 houses down! With an untuned wire! Ungrounded! The person said they LOVE the Oldies on AM! That surprised me. He must have an AM antenna of some sort. He might be a DXer, and that’s how he found me. Dunno.
So, tuned stick and mounted outdoors with a coil, The SpitFire COULD be a contender! I do like how Oldies sound on this thing. I see on HB’s site, they are screaming about SSTRAN being either slow, or non-delivery…
Check eBay for the SpitFire under AM transmitters.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Great you are getting unexpected listeners!
Most people don’t sit with a radio surfing the dial to see what they can find.
Wonder of I have any listeners the same way.
Mark
Total posts : 45366Especially on AM. Word of mouth is my next guess. The neighbors across in a small cul-de-sac were quite vocal about a radio station on their street! Playing Oldies! So there is that. The three neighbors in my building listen regularly.
I guess there are quite a few DXers in Maine. Primarily FM I imagine. But, a few AMers as well.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Admittedly my coverage is highly unusual, Hamilton Rangemaster in a rural area with low to no RF noise. I have a sneaking suspicion the nearby fertilizer plant has some effect on my range. Not to mention the car radio has a very impressive AM side. My closest Co-Channel is in Iowa I believe, my signal is usually decimated by adjacent channel splatter from both sides at night. Loud processing helps.
The biggest difference is the Crystal control allows the carriers to not beat against eachother which reduces nighttine noise. The SSTran, Spitfire, TalkingHouse, and several others use PLL tuning which can have enough drift (as slight as it might be) to have the carriers beat and reduce night coverage. This is the grumbling warble sound you hear at night. If the drift is great enough it’ll whistle.
Total posts : 45366So that’s the reason. Thanks Mighty! Crystal, eh? Hmmm…
Doug
Total posts : 45366In response to post #32? Rich, how would a signal fair using the same formula you shared in your post in say a rural , mountainous wooded area? With very little effort on my part and using either one of my two transmitters on AM ( the sstran amt3000 or TH 5.0 ) I am able to cover 1/4 mile in the open, BUT, part of that coverage is from the power lines and not by conventional over the air transmission.
The current setup is the SSTran AMT3000 wired to a 9 foot aluminum conduit, ground is fed directly into the house wiring via the supplied power supply (walwart) and audio is fed to the AM Transmitter via a receiver tuned to a 89.7 FM. The FM STL is trivial and should not be included as it really isn’t a physical connection to the AM transmission system.
The bucket that houses all of this is sitting above the soil on a wooden deck about 12″ from the soil. What is hurting my signal here more than anything?
The fact that I am using the conduit instead of the supplied wire antenna? No coils.
The rocks in the mountains surrounding me?
The tree’s on the mountains?
Or the fact that the system is not above the terrain around me which for the most part is 800 to 1200 feet higher than my property?I am just wondering how viable a well tuned antenna and transmitter would be in such a diverse terrain. Some say trees help propagate AM signal’s, i have no way of knowing.
Barry of BBR 1620
Deep in the heart of Red Bird National Forest
Total posts : 45366… What is hurting my signal here more than anything? …
It might be that the “ground” conductor of the house a-c wiring is not very effective at radio frequencies. You might try using an 8-foot copper-plated ground rod driven vertically into the earth directly below your 9-foot aluminum conduit antenna — connecting the top of the ground rod to the chassis of the transmitter.
If the earth there is too rocky to drive in a ground rod, you could install a set of horizontal radial wires on or just below the surface of the earth. The common point where the radials are connected together should be located directly below your antenna, and connected from there to the chassis of the transmitter. You might start with 10 radial wires each about 15 feet long, evenly spaced. If earth conductivity is poor at the transmit site, more than 10 radials might be useful — even 30 or more. The radial wires can be either insulated or bare. Copper or at least copper-plated wire is best. Maybe use at least 16AWG wire or larger (solid) for the radials.
… I am just wondering how viable a well tuned antenna and transmitter would be in such a diverse terrain. …
Trees, houses and small hills don’t much affect the propagation of signals in the AM broadcast band, as they are small in terms of the wavelengths used.
More important is earth conductivity at and within a mile or so of the transmit site. Low conductivity reduces the field intensity of groundwaves as they propagate along the surface of the earth. But there is nothing one can do to improve that condition except to move the transmit system to an area having better earth conductivity.
Total posts : 45366Beat interference, it sounds like thunder rolling in on frequencies like 1450 and 1490 most nights. Transmitters are more frequency tolerant these days so you don’t hear the beat tones like in older times, which sounded like low growls on big speakers. Maximum growl frequency should be forty cycles per second, with the allowable frequency tolerance of +/- 20 hz on the AM broadcast band.
There was a proposal put in the AM improvement pot a few years ago that all AM stations should frequency lock together nationwide. Apparently is wasn’t put into place because of the expense that would have fallen to each station or group, and maybe it wasn’t deemed as an important enough thing to do.
Frequency syncing isn’t a new idea, I read long ago in a 1950s engineering reference book about the BBC trying it.
I’ve heard close-transmitter frequency syncing a few times, on traveler’s info highway stations. Listening to the first, you’ll start to hear the voice from the second, far off in the distance. In this case they were running seperate messages. The distant station’s voice gets louder and louder until they’re about equal, and it sounds like a mash of two people talking, then the first station strarts to fade out and the second becomes the dominant. All the while there’s no beat between the carriers, no pulsing, it’s like one signal.
I thought that was pretty cool, but how would it work on multiples of widely spaced broadcast stations? My thought is it would help, since carrier beat is an issue, with the carrier being the strongest part of an AM signal, but what about interference zones where the carriers are out of phase between stations?
Total posts : 45366Nate Crime you said a mouthful there. I think one of the reasons people have become so content is because they know no other format now. It’s all lumped into the same top 40 rap hip-hop and one of the Rock. Classic rock and classic hits have been jumbled up into classic hits but people think it’s really classic rock. There is a major difference as I have tried to state a long time ago. But most people have forgotten because the underground stations that used to play The Deep tracks are no longer a part of the regular Airwaves.
In April of this year an LPFM station on 103.9 called WWND came on the air in White Stone Virginia. They began a format of oldies and some real classic rock mixed in there. Whoever owns the radio station really did a good job in music selection. We’re talking anything from Frank Sinatra to the Grateful Dead and lots of the older folks really enjoy that station. I can pick them up almost all the way to Gloucester Virginia on a car radio. In the morning they actually do a show till sometime after 2 p.m. and the DJ is pretty cool. I talked to him a little bit about his station and about how the radio station started. He said a small group of radio Buffs started that station along with a few down in Florida. They got success and they don’t ever want to become corporate radio because there’s no fun in it.
LPFM at least bring some small communities back up to what they should be. There are some really good stations out there that do it for the passion of radio. The trick however is to get the funding necessary to do it right and keep it going. Some of the LPFM’s struggle for success due to the fact that many folks rather sit and do nothing instead of help try and fund a station that they really like thinking that somebody else will do the grunt work for them. This is been a case I have seen in the radio hobby itself where people want change but rather sit back and let someone else do the work and thus nothing gets done. This is why many of these small stations will ultimately fail in the long run unless somehow stations can be set up cheaper.
The attitude where if you’re broke don’t start a station it’s really not a good one because it keeps many folks from doing exactly what we’re trying to do. Yes having lots of money and a huge studio and the best mixing board and the best audio processor possible will make your station sound great but there are ways of doing things on a budget. You just have to look at all the options and keep your eyes open that’s part of being a hobbyist as well. I don’t expect things to fall in your lap as even my internet station was a large struggle at first. Many folks that didn’t support me at first kept telling me to give up because I would never have decent enough bandwidth to support the station that I want. But I kept plugging away at it and things are going great now. You just have to have the drive and determination to do things and get things going the way that you dream of having them go. It’s not going to come easy it won’t fall in your lap but keep plugging away and eventually it will come to pass.
Total posts : 45366Radio is without a doubt a lot better when you can tell the on-air folks are having fun. Funny thing about Classic Hits and Classic Rock, If I’m not mistaken when the format first rolled out it was called Classic Hits. I’m not entirely sure when Classic Rock became the defacto term for the format.
Radio is an extraordinarily expensive business, that is an unfortunate fact that cannot be overlooked. It gets even more expensive if you dare have on-air talent, then finding on-air talent that isn’t an egomaniac is another problem. Based on my experience, hiring and keeping air-talent is the most frustrating and exhausting part of the job. (Aside from bill stickershock)
Total posts : 45366“Radio is an extraordinarily expensive business, that is an unfortunate fact that cannot be overlooked.”
No doubt Mighty. Plus, time consuming. Dangerous too, doing tower work. As far as hiring and keeping air-talent, ha! Been there, done that! Frustrating and exhausting is right! Today? That’s a BIG nope! But…that said-
I have the equipment. The music. It really costs me nothing now. Just my time. But I am buying equipment, so I guess saying it costs me nothing would be incorrect. I spent $200 on an SSTRAN and a SpitFire. I spend money on my hobbies, so…
Good equipment is terribly expensive! A good pro board is over a thousand. QRK/Russco turntables are at a premium. A good Orban comp/limiter like the 424a starts at over $600! Does anyone use cart machines anymore? I use a laptop with Zara.
Doug
Total posts : 45366“Good equipment is terribly expensive! A good pro board is over a thousand. QRK/Russco turntables are at a premium. A good Orban comp/limiter like the 424a starts at over $600! Does anyone use cart machines anymore? I use a laptop with Zara.”
Man ain’t that the truth, though on some facebook groups you can sometimes get good vintage broadcast gear at a more reasonable price. The most insane pricing seems to involve the AM Optimod units, while fantastic processors they are 30+ years old with unobtanium electronics.
There is some really good gear available under $1,000 but not that much under. The Inovonics 223 runs about $850, Hamilton runs $500-800, new mixers are in the thousands, pro sound cards run $300+, etc. The really good stuff costs a lot but price really does equal quality in the radio industry.
Total posts : 45366Am Optimod components are certainly available, it’s just that people don’t even want to look for them !
I still repair/upgrade 8100 fm and 9100 optimods, no problem.
When looking for digital broadcast processor parts, things get a bit harder, as they are harder to trouble shoot, without knowledge and expensive test gear.
The Inovonics 222 is an over rated box when used by itself, it is an add on compliance box, people forget that.
By the time you couple up non broadcast gear to a 222, you might as well buy a used broadcast processor.
The phrase “less is more” always makes me laugh, that saying is true when using non broadcast type gear cascaded together.
Paul.
Total posts : 45366fortunately I have kept my expenses down.
But you still need some means to get a good transmitter. The Procaster AM transmitter considered one of the best is $700 US? But this also has on board compressor limiter which is adjustable, eliminating the need for a separate compressor. With FM the Decade is probably the best and is $500 for the mono model(MS-100) which will get you farther and will still be working 15+ years from now and is made in Canada…You can get cheap stuff but it won’t last long and sound the same.
My costs are for the Decade(recently purchased a new one, was using an older one in the plastic case before.), but have others I’ve used too, so some additional expense along the way. $250 for an RNC compressor and my audio source is with a Sandisk MP3 player(have several as back ups) $300 which will take a micro SD card for lots of space and has gapless playback(and custom EQ) so no silence between tracks. The programming is done with the computer…getting the station Id’s, jingles and playlist to the audio source so you can say a computer is also an expense.
Then it just runs itself and I get around the downtime needed for recharging by rigging the MP3 player to work on regular C batteries which gives me 3 weeks runtime continuous and 10 seconds for battery change.
Any hobby, unless you collect sea shells or something costs some money.
I have no need for expensive mixers because I’m not live and not doing many things at once. Even my voice tracks are pre-recorded. Now, there’s no operating expense.
Mark
Total posts : 45366You can do the compressor limiting through computer software. In the case with my station that’s exactly what happens. I would like to be able to have all the separates like I used to have but for right now that’s exactly how I run my station. At least with nextkast it does have the separate transmitter option so that you can stream and monitor what your streaming and also make previews of tracks before you air them. In a sense nextkast was really meant for part 15 or what have you along with online streaming.
Total posts : 45366Awesome Dugger!
SSTran does seem MIA, not sure whats going on. Kind of a shame since the SSTran products are pretty slick.
Total posts : 45366Read the text in red:
The old guy is swamped! LOL! He got more business than he bargained for! Sometimes you have to be careful for what you wish…
Doug
Total posts : 45366That site is actually not owned by SSTran in any way, its run by Pat Ryan who builds them as a side gig to his retirement. At least Pat was nice enough to put a message up.
Total posts : 45366Ah! Thanks Mighty! OK, that means Old Phil B may not be doing too well. Or HE is swamped! The Antique Radio guys are not happy with him. I got my SSTRAN after a month or so. No explanation. It just arrived.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Has anyone else ordered/received a SpitFire? I’m curious about your experience…
Doug
Total posts : 45366I have a ground rod about 7 feet from the transmitter/antenna but the cable company is hooked to that and i get a bad hum when the SSTran is connected to that ground.
Sounds like Ac hum and not a ground loop, hard to explain.
Of course with all the trouble i have had lately with the cable company and their less than stellar internet service, i am hesitant to attach to that ground rod anyway.I should have gone with my original plans and install the whole system next to the tool shed, it stays damp there and there is a natural ground with the well right in front of the shed. I have had the cover off of that well and it runs pretty deep but that really doesn’t offer an earth ground.
Looks like next warm spell I will be driving a rod in the ground where it stays damp and moving everything there.
Thanks
Barry of BBR 1620
Total posts : 45366WOES was a High school station running 100 Watts I think it was 91.5 Mhz. It broadcasted around 1979-1985 or so and my friend Dean played some great Album Rock. The format was Adult contemporary during school hours till 3pM and Rock till 5 PM Mon-Thurs and Friday Rock after 3pM-9pM. They too had listeners.
Total posts : 45366Anyone wish to comment on the SpitFire AM Transmitter?
🙂
Doug
Total posts : 45366Dugger,
I am curious about the ATU section of the Spitfire.
What do the instructions say about it’s operation?
How does it work? Is it hand tune from a pot in the transmitter or automatic?Barry
Total posts : 45366There is a 4-DIP Switch ATU and a trimmer cap, Barry. I had no luck with it at 1530. I switched the ATU to the OFF position and changed to 1500 and BOOM! A 10 foot wire! All over the place! Two houses on either side of me, one in the back and several across the street and in the cul-de-sac.
I have the antenna taped to a six foot piece of wooden trim, and that is mounted on my camera tripod. I’m on the 2nd floor corner, so I put the antenna in the corner. Pre and post sunrise, it’s terrible, but once the sun comes up, she beams!
There is mention of using loaded coils with the wire antenna. 300-400 uH is recommended. Never done that. Wound a coil, that is. My neighbors seem happy with it. Just can’t do a damn thing at night, That’s why I bought a Part 15 FM Transmitter. Not sure how that’s gonna work out. It was a very good deal.
But the SpitFire has potential to be a little blowtorch! Very much like the SSTRAN AMT-3000. I need to play with the ATU some more. I’m just afraid to wreck the coverage I have now, if I change something.
Doug
Total posts : 45366“Pre and post sunrise, it’s terrible, but once the sun comes up, she beams!”
Night time is a good time to tinker with the tuning when your coverage is limited to a smaller area. I do my best work at night despite getting older and my body craving sleep.
I am curious now, if it’s doing that well now on just the wire antenna what would it do on a coil loaded vertical with ground elements.
Barry
Total posts : 45366Do you have a Smartphone? If so I suggest taking pictures of how it is set now. Then you can always go back to where it was. I know a hair turn of a variable cap can make a huge difference.
Total posts : 45366I’ve seen a picture of the Spitfire’s board on an auction, and it looks like the tuning is similar to the older AMT unitswith molded inductors selected to be in or out of the circuit by 4 dip switches.
That means you can set the switches to use combinations of inductors in series that get the system close to being resonant with the antenna connected, and then using the tuning capacitor for final tweaking for a maximum power output peak.
The capacitor should be across the junction of the last output inductor and the antenna, and ground, and should be a low loss dialectric cap.
I’ve noticed that most of the Part 15 transmitters on the market have similar output circuits. The components may be different, but the circuit is similar, probably because it’s a tuner that really works, and it’s simple enough.
It’s pretty much a straight ‘L’ network, transforming low into high impedance for the short antenna.
The older AMT 3K uses the set of moulded inductors, the newer 5K replaces the inductors with what looks to be a powdered iron toroid, something like a T-200-2, that would have better efficiency on the broadcast band than than the small inductor set.
Instead of switches, it uses jumpers, but really, it’s doing the same thing, selecting sections of the coil in and out of the circuit, and again, the output variable capacitor peaks up the circuit for highest output.
The Rangemaster looks like it’s based on the same idea, while the Chez Procaster is the only common commercial transmitter I know of using an air core inductor, no core. That could help by being lower loss, no ferrite or iron magnetics to cause losses, but the Chez’s coil also isn’t adjustable, meaning you’re likely going to end up using more capacitance than if you could select coil taps.
You want the most inductance, least capacitance for the highest efficiency, and the more inductance you can use, the less capacitance you’d need to get to the peak output.
A little capacitance across the output at the antenna is good so the tuning is more broadband, but too much will kill the efficiency of the circuit.
I don’t know who first pioneered that style of tuner for P15, the large inductor, small cap L network, but everyone seems to use it now, and it was probably one of the larger breakthroughs that made the commercial part-15 transmitter possible.
Older circuits always seemed to use a parallel resonant circuit, a coil and capacitor output tank, with the antenna wire attached to the top of the coil, the high impedance end, especially with tubes. Transistor circuits carried that on for a while.
Total posts : 45366This is valuable info. Coils, capacitance and inductance…OH MY! Outside my expertise. I am just amazed at the sound of this little box! Cyndi Lauper is singing “All Through The Night” right now. Yeah, it’s the Orban, I know. That DOES make a difference. Incredible. And the neighbors love it! Wait’ll they hear the FM! LOL!
Doug
Total posts : 45366I’m always reading and learning plus experimenting and trying to think up something new, all this RF has fried my brain maybe!
I’m glad you like the Spitfire, it has to be one of the best deals in a transmitter out there, built or not, it seems like a good basic circuit that’s engineered well, since you report good sound.
I don’t think that some other transmitters are that well engineered, like the Talking House and the Ramsey PLL, AM-25 I think. Those have good points, but shortcomings where it hurts, the sound quality.
Total posts : 45366i’m thinking of getting one after i seen what you said about it cool thanks
Total posts : 45366i was wondering if this transmitter was good i mite try to get one
Total posts : 45366You mean, “Might”? Yeah. Good little unit. On on eBay right now…$90+
Doug
Total posts : 45366This Spitfire transmitter you speak of. From the UK. Non FCC certified. It’s illegal for them to sell them here without certification. Of course it’s legal to operate one as long as you are meeting the Part 15 AM rules. But it is not legal for them to sell one here without certification.
Which also means that should the FCC visit you you will need to be prepared to show that you’re meeting the rules and you have no certification to back you up.
Just pointing out a technicality. Not necessarily one that would get anyone in trouble here, as long as you’re operating legal.
TIB
Total posts : 45366From Reply 74, above: … Just pointing out a technicality. Not necessarily one that would get anyone in trouble here, as long as you’re operating legal.
__________
Just wondering …
How could anyone reasonably expect to prove that the radiation from their unlicensed AM/FM broadcast band transmit system is legal under Part 15, if/when an FCC field inspection shows otherwise?
Even transmitters with traceable FCC certification as being compliant with Part 15 rules when measured in a test lab environment can be installed and adjusted by the final buyer/operator of same so as NOT to be compliant with Part 15.
And likely moreso for such hardware never having been officially certified as compliant with FCC Part 15 — as shown by the measurements of same reported here by TIB.
Total posts : 45366In the case of AM transmitters someone who knows how to operate a multi-meter and knows Ohm’s Law should be easily able to determine compliance.
Total posts : 45366… and a tape measure.
Total posts : 45366That’s funny. 🙂
Total posts : 45366This Spitfire transmitter you speak of. From the UK. Non FCC certified. It’s illegal for them to sell them here without certification.
Ha ha! I know! Tell that to eBay! Or 6v6! Get ’em while ya can!
Doug
Total posts : 45366RE: Clips Just Above —Ohm’s Law, multimeters and tape measures existed long before §15.219 was added to FCC Part 15, and before the FCC ever issued NOUOs for non-compliance with §15.219 (including those reporting long ground leads).So apparently those resources were/are not always used by those setting up and operating such unlicensed systems.The FCC certainly knew that a ground conductor added to the radiation of a ~ 3-meter whip attached to a transmitter operating in the AM broadcast band.This is the reason why the length of the ground conductor was included in the overall antenna length permitted by §15.219(b) in the first place.
Total posts : 45366Rich correctly stated: “RE: Clips Just Above — Ohm’s Law, multimeters and tape measures existed long before §15.219 was added to FCC Part 15, and before the FCC ever issued NOUOs for non-compliance with §15.219 (including those reporting long ground leads). So apparently those resources were/are not always used by those setting up and operating such unlicensed systems.”
Snob DHR commented: “Then those operators should not be operating radio transmitters when these measurements can easily be made.”
Total posts : 45366Not sure what the point of your post is, Rich.
We are all aware that you cannot measure compliance of a Part 15.239, or a Part15.209 transmitter without measuring field strength. And that different environments can cause these transmitters to produce wildly varying field strengths.
But it is also true that with a simple multimeter (and a tape measure), you CAN measure compliance of a Part15.219 transmitter.
I would add that the FCC has an expectation of the field strength of a compliant Part15.219 transmitter – they measure field strength only at first and if a transmitter is obviously above this limit, then they would inspect. I seem to recall a discussion here a few years ago about what that field strength was, but I can’t recall if any conclusions were arrived at.
I also don’t know what any of this has to do with the Spitfire transmitter.
Total posts : 45366(Response to Reply 83 Above)
Not sure what the point of your post is, Rich. … with a simple multimeter (and a tape measure), you CAN measure compliance of a Part15.219 transmitter.
The point of my post was (is) that meeting, and proving compliance with FCC §15.219 depends upon more than the possession and use of a multimeter and a tape measure.
It also depends on the ethics, knowledge, experience, and website guidance/documentation to such operators available over the years provided by transmitter manufacturers, and others.
Review the case of KENC.
Total posts : 45366I really don’t think the operator will need to prove compliance one way or the other. The FCC will TELL the operator how they’re doing.
Especially as Rich pointed out, it doesn’t matter if the unit is certified, there are too many variables which could render the unit out of compliance such as whether you have metal piercings or metal cleats on your boots, time of day, time of year, weather conditions, where your vehicle is parked…
Well the list just goes on and on and on…
Total posts : 45366The Spitfire has been for sale for over 10 years and before that was the Metzo SSTran clone. The Spitfire replaced the Metzo. Obviously eBay doesn’t care in the slightest.
Total posts : 45366Ebay is like Amazon, they aren’t the sellers so the question is are they partly liable for allowing these to be sold by companies through them?
Mark
Total posts : 45366Ebay is not the seller, they just provde the medium for sellers and buyers to connect.
I can’t use the Spitfire here in Canada at all…meeting the rules or not as ISED(formerly Industry Canada) says any transmitter has to be certified and that is the most important thing they look for. Not approved in their data base, $3000 to get the approval or can’t use.
The certification fee is the same for a company and since it comes ready built it could be certified by the manufacturer for legal use in Canada and the USA.
Mark
Total posts : 45366Question for those of you that physically have a Spitfire…
I see in the specs that the audio frequency response goes to “10K / 25K”
Is the difference accomplished via some sort of switch? If so, how is the audio between the two? Is the 10K steep enough to replicate an NRSC filter? And I’d assume the 25K audio sounds nice and full on a wideband receiver.
Just wondering what your experiences have been with the audio quality of the Spitfire unit. My goal is not to get range, but to get good, solid, full AM audio from my studio to the transmitter, and then to stream that “AM sound” back over my internet station.
Total posts : 45366The SpitFire puts out very good audio. As good as AM gets. What makes mine sound full and punchy is my Orban Comp/Limiter. A 422a is perfect! This one:
My Mackie mixer (1402) has EQ on each channel and I boost the low and high ends a bit. With a GE Super Radio set on “wideband”, it sounds like FM…it’s all in the receiver after that.
The audio is rolled off at 10K. You cannot get 20-20k frequency response out of AM. Impossible.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Not “legal” for sale in the United States. You have 2 models of Sstran out there. No comparison in quality. And nothing is “Impossible.”
Total posts : 45366“Not “legal” for sale in the United States.”
Tell that to eBay:
C’mon! Not legal! That’s a joke. Of course it’s legal, or you wouldn’t be able to buy one. Nobody cares about those stupid “laws” that are not enforced nor even acknowleged.
“You have 2 models of Sstran out there. No comparison in quality.”
That may be true. I have not compared them. Seeing Phil B is being so slow in delivering his product, I can’t see why not buy the SpitFire. It’s plug and play.
“And nothing is ‘Impossible.'”
I like your thinking there..
Doug
Total posts : 45366Sure like to believe that.
Mark
Total posts : 45366That’s quite a concept — if you can buy it on ebay it’s legal LOL!
eBay has a rather extensive list of prohibited items and it’s updated and changing constantly. Over the years I’ve tried to sell a lot of actually legal items that wereprohibited just because they were playing it safe. 10 meter ham amps, Ranger 2025 radios, the list goes on.
If made aware of it it might be possible to get illegal FM transmitters off ebay. Except of course that ebay doesn’t ahve the means to tell the fake certified units from the real certified units, and keeping track would be beyond their abilities.
Check with the sellers of illegal transmitters over the years who HAVE been busted and paid fines. They probably care about those stupid laws.
Prohibited list:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html
TIB
Total posts : 45366Thanks Tim for that info. on prohibited items on Ebay. Didn’t know that Ebay had this rule for sellers and I guess they police this when something goes on there.
The transmitters go through the cracks as there may be a gray area or they don’t know….same as Amazon.
Mark
Total posts : 45366eBay has a lot of rules that no one knows about until they run afoul of them.
Obviously it’s not possible for them to police everything, what with millions of items being listed every single day, most by legit sellers of course. Tha tmakes it hard to weed out the bad stuff. They rely mostly on people clicking on the “report this item” link that’s on every auction if you stumble upon something illegal, counterfiet, or against policies.
Trouble is, if we all start turning in the illegal FM transmitter sellers, for example, it won’t be long before eBay bans the item entirely when they realize they can’t control good vs bad units.
They also really crack down on counterfiet items. I’ve listed over the years quite a bit of “fashion” items for my daughter or wife. Try listing a Coach purse once. You better be ready to show all the necessary photos showing that it’s the real deal. Try selling new Ugg boots. Apparently lots of fakes are listed. You can actually apply for ebay “certification” (for lack of a better word) if you’re intending to sell a lot of designer fashions. Try listing something from Prada!
I’ve also been flagged when listing something with the word “indian” or “native American” in it… you better have an authentic Native item!
There really are a lot of behind the scenes rules, most of which you never run into unless they apply specifically to something you’re listing. I’ve been flagged on several radio items over the years — mostly ham stuff that can be modified for CB use.
If they are aware that a transmitter is illegal it will be stopped before it gets listed, or will be taken down if turned in and they have time to investigate before the auction ends.
It can also get confusing with interntaional sellers and buyers further complicating things.
There’s a lot more to eBay than meets the eye!
TIB
Total posts : 45366It also sells outside the US. I love the SpitFire. Perfect for a business parking lot. Or restaurant. Specials that day, etc. If eBay gets tight, go to 6v6 themselves. Buy one direct. Same price. I like the SSTRAN better, though. The 3000. Better control of parameters.
But AM is AM. Like 300Hz to 5000Hz if I’m not mistaken. That’s what comes out ya radio. The GE Super Radio makes AM sound like FM due to the “wideband” switch. We tested that. Plus, the SpitFire needs a 1/2 inch OD, ten-foot copper pipe. Plus a coil. Then ya got a transmitter. But, it’s the same deal with the SSTRAN.
Ya like ta build stuff? There is not a better kit than the AMT-3000. I hear the AMT-5000 is a good one too, but that is down the road a bit. Phil B is having…”issues” right now delivering kits.
If you are all thumbs, and burn yourself easily, and fear soldering, and you WANT a little compliant AM transmitter, built, tested and delivered, get the SpitFire. Wherever you get it.
Doug
Total posts : 45366Yes, the Spitfire is very nice. I have had one for a couple years now. Clean audio, no hum, no drift.
The instructions say that leaving the ATU switches in their default position (all 4 on) is fine. “For short range use around the house or garden, you can leave the ATU set to the default EXTERNAL setting”.
Also, I have found that setting only switches 1 and 3 ON gives a definite power boost, regardless of frequency setting.
Total posts : 45366It is interesting to read what Radiodugger and Naddy69 say about the ATU on the Spitfire.
I am testing on 1080kHz AM. As per the instructions, I have changed the switch settings to Internal ATU and have chosen the frequency band columns that gives the apporximate minimum and maximum frequencies, I chose INTERNAL 830-1160 (Switch ON, OFF, OFF, ON). The signal is rock solid in around the house, no hum, no ground, but I’m not impressed with the range outside the house.
I intend to try the ON, OFF, ON, OFF (which corresponds with INTERNAL 870-1220 on the supplied chart), as per Naddy69s suggestion. Then I will try switching the Internal ATU off as per Radiodugger’s suggestion. So many variables!!!
Let’s see how we get on.
Pat
Total posts : 45366AM doesn’t stop at 10k. AM used to be 15k and still is for AM stereo stations. The only limiting factor is the reciever, the transmitter can spit out much more than you’d think.
The Spitfire used to be considered a garbage SSTran Clone, just like the Wholehouse FM was garbage. There seems to be an awful lot of garbage transmitters that have gained popularity thanks to their affordability. (ESPECIALLY on FM)
Having never used either, I have no personal opinion except in the case of the WholeHouse that was selling them illegally when they first came out.
Total posts : 45366The Wholehouse FM transmitter is not “garbage”. It works perfectly fine. I have 2 of the 3.0 models. Great sound and I have personally achieved .8 mile range using nothing but the supplied antenna. I also had the original model (7 frequencies only) and the 2.0 model. The 3.0 is by far the best.
The Spitfire AM transmitter is also just fine. I have had one for a couple years now. I also had an SSTran. I only sold it because I needed the money for other things.
Mind you, I am not running – or even interested in running – an “official radio station”. I just use them to housecast to my various radios, maybe 3 or 4 hours a day total. Some days, not at all. They are both excellent for this purpose.
I also use one of the FM transmitters to play MP3s in my car over the radio, as the radio has no aux input and the transmitter can use batteries OR you can plug it into the car power supply. Again, it excels at this.
Neither transmitter is aimed at the “mount it on the outdoor antenna to get the best range, and broadcast to the neighborhood” crowd. They are designed, built, priced and sold to much more casual users.
Total posts : 45366I’ve field tested a total of SIX brand new Wholehouse 3.0 transmitters now. Not one was even close to being legal in the USA. They work fine and sound fine. It would be interesting to see what a legal one might sound like. My tests are posted here:
http://www.hobbybroadcaster.co/
And note the addition where I tested five brand new units, back to back, each and every one over the limit.
If you’re thinking of FM beware.
This is a bit off the Spitfire discussion, however.
TIB
Total posts : 45366The Spitfire is perfect for the casual user and especially for beginners. Beyond that, meh. (Granted when I say its “meh” thats based on the reviews I read on it several years ago, the biggest complaint at the time was dull sound and poor range) I myself went through several “meh” transmitters before finally snagging a Rangemaster, it wasn’t until I started using the hamilton that I realized how good part 15 really could be. However you brought up a very good point that I had over looked regarding the market the spitfire targets.
What Tim says confirms the Wholehouse is garbage, they should never have been issued certification. (At first they weren’t and manufactured the transmitters with false FCC identifiers.) Not to mention listed features that have no actual functionality and “hidden” features that allow an illegally high power, which just so happens voids any certification as the feature was not published when submitted for FCC approval. Personally I’ve long preferred the C Crane line of transmitters that IIRC were typically under the legal limit but are built very well.
Total posts : 45366man this argument just goes around and around.. everything is always garbage compared to the rangemaster?
well, lets see. the rangemaster has come up with an ingenious way to have a counterpoise for its antenna and call it a ground. the rangemaster also has onboard audio processing.
watts is watts. if i take a spitfire and put it in a box on top of a pole with a “lightning protection” wire running down the length of the pole what do you think might happen? it might just get out, really well.
audio processing is everyting in the radio world, if not broadcasters wouldnt spend stupid money on optimods. process your audio properly (like the rangemaster helps you do) and you to will get that coverage.
im sorry but i’m not buying into that unit’s magical superiority. yes, its a prepackaged solution that works well for those that rather spend money instead of sweat. can i achieve the same results with significantly less cash outlay? i bet a beer to a 6 pack i can.
hell i’ve gotten a TH unit to sound impressive to the ears of a local broadcast engineer and we know how fickle those things are.
the FCC froms upon the “lightning protection wire”? do they frown upon the National Electrical Code regarding lightning protection? dont be so fearful of the agents. theyre human.
Total posts : 45366You speak Good Sense sir. You’re not the first person who has mentioned this in fact you could have an elevated transmitter and still have a ground and be 100% legal. Want to know how?
here is here is the secret the electrical code requires a ground. So in other words if you have an electrical socket installed it has to be grounded. So what you do is very simple have a licensed electrician install an electrical outlet at the top of your install. Know what you can do is two things you can have a transmitter that uses the third prong as a ground like the talking house 5 or you can simply take two inches of ground wire and connect that from your transmitter to the third prong on the electrical socket. You’re one hundred percent legal and let me just say that a very well-known company called Information Systems uses this technique.
I’ve actually done a little bit of homework into the subject and found that this is to be true rather or not it radiates is irrelevant. It is 100% legal as your equipment must be lightning protected and with a 2-inch ground lead to that socket you’re definitely following the rules. Technically it’s the same thing as living it on a 50 story apartment and using your talking house 5 transmitter. No difference.
Electrical safety trumps anything that the NAB would try to complain about. it’s not the same thing as having your transmitter on top of a 80 foot power and running a long lead down to the ground. However if there was a licensed electrician who put electrical socket at the top of that Tower and install the electrical system the same way they would in a house that would change everything. Yes that 80 foot might radiate butt again electrical safety counts.
There are many reasons that one might want to have an elevated transmitter one is for safety against vandalism to is to get your signal above structures that would block your signal. Even AM is prone to being attenuated by certain structures.
Even Tim in Bovey could have a legal ground from his install. He could do the same thing have an electrical outlet installed by a licensed electrician and grounded properly then have his transmitter grounded to that either through the same type of system that the talking house 5 or use that simple 2-inch ground lead.
in some installs that way the FCC has been right there as transmitters have been installed as I in some installs that way the FCC has been right there as transmitters have been installed as I have described and they have passed inspection and we’re able to go on the air.
Total posts : 45366The previous post contains. in my opinion, misinformation. Citations and references to the claims made would be helpful.
I advise not following any of the recommendations of the previous post unless such claims can be verified.
For example, the NEC does not supersede FCC rules, it is not an either/or situation with these regulations, it is both which apply. One way to meet both NEC and FCC regulations is to provide a protective ground and RF ground at the earth level and mount the transmitting system at earth level.
Neil
Total posts : 45366First, the Rangemaster does not have on board processing. The Procaster does however. Also watts is not always watts. The efficiency of the RF output section must be factored in. The Rangemaster operates Class D with an efficiency that approaches 90%. Correct me Neil if I’m off on that. Both the Procaster and the Rangemaster are in a class of their own. Kit-wise the Sstran 5000 with a Class E output is also in its own class. You pay for what you get as they say. There is no comparison between a Rangemaster/Procaster when it comes to the quality of the circuit board construction. Also if you like a transmitter that has FM artifacts the Talking House is right up your ally LOL!
Total posts : 45366The TH is a novelty. I’m not saying a TH is the cat’s meow. I am saying I can achieve similar range results with any of the transmitters if similarly installed. Process your audio and you’re getting the best bang for your buck.
Transmitter efficiency is important but doesn’t it take a doubling of power to gain 3db? All of these boxes have been metered before and aren’t they all in the 80-100mw output range? What’s the argument?
Total posts : 45366radio8z,
im not a librarian so if you wish to argue my points then feel free to look for citations to invalidate my reasoning.
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the FCC does not require the AM hobbyist to have a type accepted part 15 transmitter. the FCC requires anyone manufacturing transmitters for sale in the USA to get type accepted or verified but that burden is on the equipment maker. unlike licensed broadcasters, we are not required to have type accepted equipment. we are bound by the rules though that our gear doesnt go outside FCC limits, homebrewed or store bought.
the spitfire is indeed circumventing rules but the way things are written, we’re imuune unless your gear goes awry and you’d be in trouble regardless of what you owned if all of a sudden you started spewing interference.
a hamilton is a transmitter in a box. saying that only the hamilton gets to have proper lightning protection when mounted on an elevated surface is ridiculous. all antenna mounting structures are supposed to have proper lighting protection, that’s proper engineering practice.
the hamilton product may employ a very efficient transmitter but the competitors would have to be 50% efficient to produce a signal 3db down all other things being equal.
lets be clear that i’m not saying the hamilton product is junk. its very well made and an excellent solution for the guy that wants a BAM signal right now. what i am saying is that with some elbow grease you can save yourself $500-600 and achieve a similar signal with a spitfire or similar transmitter.
Total posts : 45366ke4mcl,
You wrote “radio8z,
im not a librarian so if you wish to argue my points then feel free to look for citations to invalidate my reasoning.”
My comments were directed to the claims of “legal” grounding made in post #104, not to what you posted, hence the phrase “previous post”..
My request for documentation was with regard to the claim that the FCC was there during some installs and were OK with this. Basically, how does the poster know this? Personal observation perhaps, or hearsay? It may well be accurate and true but I seek some assurance of this.
Neil
Total posts : 45366Okay let me try in shed some light on the subject. A very active member in the New Radio Revolution has given me this information quite some time ago. Unfortunately his computer went to hack and a lot of this was lost but I do trust his information as he’s always given me a and the ALPB valid and useful information.
From what I understand he got this information from an engineer who is been active in making sure that part 15 installations are 100% legal. Somehow Infformation Systems was mentioned as one of the companies that has used this trick and never had an issue with the FCC on any of their installs.
It is interesting to note that this happened after the fiasco of the long ground busting that happened to Ken Cartwright. Anyways the story goes on as the engineer has been using this trick because of the fact that electrical code does trump the FCC’s 3 meter ground rule.
The FCC has been present during those installs from what I understand is from information systems. So with that in mind if they’re able to do this in front of an FCC agent or agents so too can you. And it makes good sense because it’s the same darn thing is if you Were to install a talking house transmitter on the 100th floor of a building because the talking House uses the third prong as a ground. That ground does radiate contrary to what some may believe.
So that in itself makes you legal although it may not look like it but For now electrical safety codes do trump pretty much anything else. Plus did you know that if you have a system that is improperly grounded it could void your home owners insurance? This too is something else that I have found out so all of this makes good sense and the FCC knowing this so far (knock on wood) has not given anyone any hassle for that type of install. If you can point to a link with the FCC has asked someone to cut the third prong off of their power supply of a talking house or I a.m. transmitter because they live on a high-rise or an apartment that is way up in the air please post it because it’s the same thing in essence. So common sense should tell you that this information that I got is valid.
Honestly the only reason I gave this information to nonmembers of the New Radio Revolution was because I was being balked at too many times and wanted to show that the New Radio Revolution is not a bunch of young punks who know nothing about Radio. It does show that we have actually done some of the research ourselves. That in turn we given it to you But in retaliation for being made fun of. Count this one as a freebie from us. Maybe it will help you guys so that you don’t have to continue arguing about such nonsensical things like a ground lead. Now you know how to make your station legal and actually get out somewhere. Welcome to the real world of broadcasting brought to you from the Soldiers Of Chage…The New Radio Revolution.
Total posts : 45366Everything said in your “proof” is anecdote and hearsay.
NO verifiable names or links are provided.
A God that I trust doesn’t even know if it’s true, and they say HE knows everything!
Total posts : 45366I’ll have to see if I can find anything on it. However like I said life is not always documented as part of a website or link. If I knew the entineer myself and he was actually willing to reveal that information I could show it.
If it were me I’d do it but I don’t have the land to prove it could be done. I’d have a licensed electrician install a socket on top of a 500 Ft structure and buy a transmitter better than a Talking House that uses a 3 prong power supply as a ground. My station would get out for miles (not feet) and I’d be more than happy to put a big neon sign that says “The Legacy Album Rock A New Radio Revolution owned and operated station Break FREE of the shackles of Top40 and Rap and tune in to a legal part 15 station that Does not Flycast”.
Total posts : 45366Meeting the standards for proof of evidence in both science and court rooms requires information that can somehow be proven by more than someone’s story.
Even witness testimony is unreliable not only because some people lie, but also because the human memory is known to be very faulty.
Even slipperier is a person’s opinion. I am loaded with opinions. Sometimes one of them is right!
Total posts : 45366Thelegacy makes perfect sense.
The Hamilton units use the lightning protection wire and are FCC approved. Either we have some cheerleaders in here or Hamilton products are getting special treatment. There is no mention in the rules that your TX must be at ground level.
follow the 3m rule, use a compliant TX, use proper lightning protection, and don’t give the FCC agent lip if he (ever) shows up. The FCC is more than glad to show off their list of offenders. Unless somebody shows an NAL on a part 15 station over a lightning protection issue, we’re splitting hairs. Even if one is found, I’d like to hear what the operators attitude was towards the agent. We’d either have a case of bad attitude or selective enforcement.
Total posts : 45366One thing that got Ken Cartwright in trouble was the grudge match so the story went.
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