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- Hi Group,I am researching setting up a Senior radio network at various area nursing homes using Carrier Current AM and/or Radiating Coax FM.the topology would be i would have master studios here to do voice tracking, maybe some live origination via a closed streaming system.and each nursing home would consist of a head end with an automation computer, EAS, processing, and a part 15 transmitter system.while i a well versed in FCC regs and part 15 broadcasting i am not so much with the royalty and paperwork end of it.my question concerns royalties.who would i (or nursing home) pay music royalties to? do i need to keep logs of songs played and at what time they played?seems this system might fall in a regulatory void since i am not publicly streaming (would be a password private stream), it’s not a open venue such as a store bar, etc and it is not using a PA system or jukebox rather using RF and a local PC for most of the program origination.but i am not sure of this aspect of it so i look to you experience in these matters.this isn’t just me playing hobby radio at home using a small transmitter but rather a commercial business so i want them covered if i go ahead and attempt something like this.has anyone ever attempted such a project or know of anyone who has.it has been suggested i search for “Hospital Radio” but this only brings back UK results and nothing for the US.i know Bill Defelice of hobby broadcaster has experience but me and him don’t see eye to eye so picking his brain is out.Thanks
Total posts : 45366As a bit of a music licensing geek (read some of my lengthy previous posts on the subject) it’s still Part 15 radio, no different than any other sort of Part 15 radio set up in a neighborhood or apartment building, etc.
As such Part 15 radio requires NO license from ASCAP or SESAC. BMI however does require a Part 15 license. My informal survey a while back indicated that most didn’t bother with that either, but legally you should.
I’m confused about your reference to streaming. Is the purpose of the stream only to distribute the audio to the transmitters? A non-public stream does not require any licensing specifically. If this is basically defines as your STL (studio to transmitter link). Many (real) radio stations get sound to transmitters via the internet using various stream systems, or via UHF or microwave transmitters. These do not have separate music licenses and are not meant for public consumption.
If you have any intention of public streaming (e.g. the general public can listen in, or for that matter streaming for people to listen to directly in the facility) you would need to license via SoundExchange which would require music logs and a bunch of other data. But if you’re just using the internet to feed your transmitters, and the public is listening to your programming via Part 15 radio ONLY all you legally need is the BMI license. The BMI Part 15 license requires no logging, etc.
This is not to say that any licensing group may come along and try to insist that you need to pay more, or need to have the other licenses as well (ASCAP and SESAC) just because they’re generally out to get a buck from anywhere they can. But to the letter of the law you would be simply broadcasting with a Part 15 transmitter that just happens to be located where a specific group can hear it.
The way I see it, you are simply a radio studio sending your audio to your transmitters via a closed internet based STL system, all within the confines of Part 15 broadcasting.
However (and this is a big however) if the nursing homes are PAYING YOU for this service then you may have opened an entirely different can of worms. You are now collecting subscription money for the presentation of copyrighted music and that will likely require an entirely different licensing scheme. This would put you in the same group as companies that provide music to stores, restaurants, elevators (LOL) etc. These background music providers pay music licensing fees, and these fees are worked into their operating cost so are figured in to the amount the subscribers pay. Similar to satellite radio. We have to pay to listen to it. And since they have subscribers they pay much more to the music licensing groups than a regular free over the air radio station does. And how much that might cost would be a complex issue dependant on number of potential listeners, charges for the service, etc. Worth noting, they always charge based on number of POTENTIAL listeners. e.g. if a building has 1000 residents, they charge for 1000 listeners, even if only 6 actually listen. It’s like getting the rights for a musical put on by the local playhouse. The licensing is charged based on seats available in the venue. So if it seats 600 you pay for 600, even if only 12 people show up for the play!
It can get very complicated, depending on exactly what you’re doing. If it’s a paid subscription service you’ve moved out of the realm of Part 15 and into the world of music subscriptions. A whole new and MUCH more complicated world!
TIB
Total posts : 45366IMHO part 15 might not work power level is to low for a clock radio or a small boombox. If you could use 1w to 2w now it would work.
Total posts : 45366responsible for royalties and costs for unpkeep of equipment and everything would be locally provided via a headend pc, processing, and tx with the ability for me to switch in and do live programming i would not charge them ongoing fees for providing any programming service i would provide that free of cost they would just be repsonsible for intial equipment and ongoing equipment upkeep and any royalties.
part 15 when done right would work perfect for what i am going to do and is often used for such purposes.
you are allowed to crank up the power to where it is at legal limit from outer building walls.
Total posts : 45366” … part 15 when done right would work perfect for what i am going to do and is often used for such purposes.
you are allowed to crank up the power to where it is at legal limit from outer building walls. …“
Even assuming that is true with respect to a single building still prompts a few comments.
A legal FM field is defined under §15.239. A legal AM field is defined under §15.209. But very few Part 15 operators have a calibrated field intensity meter to measure either one (a Grundig or Tecsun “Ultralight” or similar receiver with a “dBµ” display of signal strength cannot do this).
If operating on AM under §15.219, how would one know what constitutes a legal d-c input power to the final r-f amplifier exceeding the 100 mW allowed by §15.219(a)? That could not be determined by taking field intensity measurements outside the walls of a building housing a Part 15 AM transmitter system even if a calibrated F.I. meter was available.
Unlicensed carrier-current AM is permitted under specific FCC Part 15 rules and limits, but unlicensed leaky cable FM systems are not.
Not wanting to be anti-Part 15; actually the opposite.
Total posts : 45366Mr. Part 15 Engineer, make sure your agreement with these homes gives you an Exclusive and Unbreakable lock on providing their programming.
If things got all built-up and they decided to sign up with some other programming you’d be out the door.
Sounds like a well-planned large project.
Total posts : 45366on this point i will argue,,,
Unlicensed Leaky Cable FM Systems are in fact permitted, there are many such systems in operation right now and LPB had built an entire business around carrier current and leaky fm systems.
for the record we are not talking about 15.219
that rulepart would not be used in these cases.
as for a FIM-72 i can make a phone call and have one at my location to borrow to make measurements.
Total posts : 45366It turns out that Part 15 Engineer is fully informed and correct about everything he’s planned in this Senior Living Radio Project.
Here is a link to the document referenced above:
Courtesy of the ALPB.
Total posts : 45366” ... on this point i will argue,,, Unlicensed Leaky Cable FM Systems are in fact permitted, …”
Could you please post the paragraph(s) of FCC Part 15 that specifically permit and define the limits for the operation of leaky cable FM setups by unlicensed systems/operators?
I’m not saying that they don’t exist. If they do, I may have missed reading them previously — and would like to be better informed about this.
Total posts : 45366… It turns out that Part 15 Engineer is fully informed and correct about everything he’s planned in this Senior Living Radio Project. …
From what has been proven so far, such conclusions/beliefs are not based on any paragraph(s) of FCC Part 15 applying to unlicensed systems/operators using leaky cable to radiate signals in the FM broadcast band.
Rather they are based on the previous statements of a commercial supplier of radio transmitters with a vested interest in hardware sales — and not directly sourced or referenced there to specifically identified paragraphs of FCC Part 15.
I’ll be glad to see the proof that what I posted here is wrong, and will retract/apologize for my post, if it IS wrong.
Total posts : 45366Have to agree with Rich in this case….Carl’s post about the legality of a radiating FM system is not an FCC ducument but like Rich said is coming from a private website by someone else giving this info.
I personally, would want to get my info. from the FCC or Industry Canada documents before deciding the legality of any undertaking.
Mark
Total posts : 45366Gentlemen.
The exact section of the FCC rules in question is sighted verbatim in the linked document.
To “prove” it to your satisfaction, compare it to your copy of the rules.
Total posts : 45366“… the exact section of the FCC rules in question is sighted verbatim in the linked document. …”
No relevant references or links to any paragraph(s) of FCC Part 15 are included in that document.
Neither are such included in 47 CFR Part 15 to authorize the legal use of leaky cable to radiate unlicensed signals in the FM broadcast band.
Note that even under optimum conditions, coaxial cable has significant loss to VHF FM signals as they propagate along its length. In this application some of that is due to the loss characteristics of the cable itself, and some due to radiation by/from that cable.
If an FM, free-space signal existing 3 meters away from the far end of a leaky cable just met FCC §15.239, then the free-space signals at all distances between that location and the input end of that leaky cable (at the transmitter) would exceed FCC §15.239.
Total posts : 45366Member Rich claims the LPB Professional Document is false but cannot prove the same because one cannot prove a negative.
Rich’s “declaration” of what is true and correct in opposition to the doument from LPB has the smack of information seen recently from the (NRR) New Radio Revolution.
My statement does not constitute attack nor ridicule on the NRR but is simply a matter of fact.
As with many technical systems the output at each apperture along a leaky cable can be managed so as to maintain full compliance at all measurement points along the way.
I hereby recuse myself from further discussion of the subject since I am not the one planning to build an FM leaky cable radio station.
Total posts : 45366… As with many technical systems the output at each apperture along a leaky cable can be managed so as to maintain full compliance at all measurement points along the way. …
Please explain how that is possible, both technically and practically.
Furthermore, could you please provide us a reference to at least one manufacturer of a radiating coaxial cable designed/managed/manageable to perform as you suggest?
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