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According to the latest in FCC rule making and subsequent amendments, the Errata regarding EAS National Tests:
http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db0210/DOC-304598A1.pdf
According to the latest in FCC rule making and subsequent amendments, the Errata regarding EAS National Tests:
http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db0210/DOC-304598A1.pdf
This will require reporting the entire results of the EAS test results for each station. This will make participation of Part 15 operators near impossible.
Total posts : 45366This will require reporting the entire results of the EAS test results for each station. This will make participation of Part 15 operators near impossible.
Marshall, Please excuse my ignorance, but what are you talking about? Are you saying that national tests of the emergency alert system is somehow detrimental to part15 broadcasters?
—edit— Hold on a second, (and this is off topic) I just realized something.. kk7cw?.. Please tell me it didn’t always say kk7cw as your user name. If it did, I just noticed. I assume that’s a ham call?
Total posts : 45366Rich,
Many here assume we, as Part 15 station operators should automatically assume we can fill the role of a local “licensed” radio station (or at least part of it) with regards to EAS. The link I previously provided is a clear demonstration that emergency services people and Homeland Security don’t see things the way we might. Participation is NOT detrimental to Part 15 operations (unless you mean being REQUIRED to turn the signal off in certain situations). Instead it requires personal initiative on the Part 15 of operators to contact their local emergency management and ask where there services can be used and how. Just because we can look and sound like the big boys, doesn’t mean we are accepted as the big boys. In short, Part 15 needs to establish, on a local basis, where its services can best be of use, if at all.
The new FCC errata is just an example of the seriousness the government puts on the role of participating in the NATIONAL Emergency Alert System. Please understand, for some time now, EAS has been a function of the Department of Homeland Security with the participation and cooperation of the FCC. DHS is the lead agency and the FCC is just the managing or operational agency.
The point of the last line in my post is that Part 15 stations would have no way to become part of the government database for the national tests.
And yes, I have been a licensed amateur (Amateur Extra Class) since 1978 and held a commercial broadcasters license (GROL, formerly First Class Radiotelephone)) since 1967. My former call signs were WB7VQQ and KC7IAA.
Total posts : 45366Thank you for briefing us on this rule change for the EAS.
There has been mention on some talk shows that EAS will be used, if necessary, by government announcements which can take over a licensed station’s transmitter and cut off their programming. That is not a question, it is a statement of fact, unless I misunderstand what is being said or that the truth lies elsewhere.
But as part 15 stations it seems to me we could, assuming the technology is available to us, also carry government announcements on the EAS, simply because we’re not prohibited from doing so.
The fact that we are not required to test a system we are not required to have but not prohibited from having is good because it saves us from having to file reports within 45-days.
We can have cake and eat cake, or not.
Me wrong?
Total posts : 45366Thank you Marshall, I get it now. and..
And yes, I have been a licensed amateur (Amateur Extra Class) since 1978 and held a commercial broadcasters license (GROL, formerly First Class Radiotelephone)) since 1967. My former call signs were WB7VQQ and KC7IAA.Just a personal tidbit of mine; My grandfather, who died about 25 years ago at (I think) 89, used to love to brag himself as the first licenced ham operator in the state of Tennesee. His call letters was W4ABQ.. (am I missing a digit?). I used to use his call letters and equipment to talk to people around the world when I was a young teen. It was quite exciting and impressive to me. — Just reminissing!
The fact that we are not required to test a system we are not required to have but not prohibited from having is good because it saves us from having to file reports within 45-days.
We can have cake and eat cake, or not.
Me wrong?Well put Carl!
Total posts : 45366Well to put it bluntly, a Part 15’er has no business being on the air during an emergency requiring the EAS to fire up. The name of the tune is, in effect, “get off, you’ll just be in the way”. They don’t want your “help”.
Everyone required to participate in the EAS, which BTW includes licensed LPFM Community Radio stations, must have the latest equipment, too. That represents a significant expense, tho’ there are some conversion kits available. The problem is that they haven’t decided which gear is going to become the standard … there was a significant discussion awhile back on the Stubblefield list
Total posts : 45366Ken, you said that a part 15er has no business being on the air during an emergency, and I am unaware of this (rule?) so I have not taken it into account.
Please be specific about this point, because it could be very important if an emergency came along.
Total posts : 45366Hi Carl,
Well, I meant a Part 15’er is bloody unlikely to ever stand a chance of participation in the EAS … an ever so brief look at (watch linewraps) Part 11 will tell you that.
Even if you could, the new EAS decoders (you must use) start at about $3400 not including installation, offline and online testing, and reporting. Once in operation, the station is required to have weekly tests under the Feds, but also, the Feds will soon require State and Local governments to do the same, and those tests must be reported and stored, and also hard-copy receipts generated by the tests.
Every week …
Therefore, in a real emergency requiring the EAS to go on, a civic-minded person operating a Part 15 station would, IMO, be expected to instruct listeners to tune to a local participating station and shut down programming, just as if it was a designated EAS station who isn’t participating.
But, if I have emergency power, I would be ready to go on if an agency makes contact and asks to help get certain types of info out locally … REAL locally …
However, that would actually be the domain of ARRL participation, should other forms of communication go down. They have special clearances with ECS to help disseminate certain kinds of information in the event of loss of communications. That requires training and certification of the operators. One of those things is using repeaters to get out to the internet.
If you want to help with communications in an emergency, get a ham license (if you don’t have one), then go for the certification.
Remember, the EAS is intended for the President, who activates the system, working through Homeland Security, FEMA, NWS, and the FCC, to get instructions and information to the public in the case of a national emergency. Tying it all together will take 10 minutes … well, that’s the goal.
Total posts : 45366As a part 15 operator or a just plain member of the public, if one is not monitoring an EAS station at the time of an emergency, he/she would go on with life as before with no comprehension of what was taking place.
If the part 15 station is automated and the owner is miles away, it will sing on right during an emergency.
My position is that a part 15 operator, IF AN AFFORDABLE MEANS EXISTS, can legally monitor for EAS without being a “participant.” The value would come from simply BEING INFORMED, so as to shut down or not.
Also, nothing, based on what’s been said so far, prohibits a part 15 station from re-broadcasting an emergency message because all government publication is in the public domain.
So far the arguments given do not discredit this position.
Total posts : 45366Suppose a number of people were tuned in to a Part 15 station and said station did not have any EAS capability..and an emergency were to occur.
I fully agree that Part 15 installations are not and were not ever intended to be tiny versions of the licensed broadcast radio service and its EAS participation requirements and so forth. Same can be said with anything fed into a Part 15 transmitter sending out a signal that is tunable by the public…be it music or chit chat or dead air.
However I also fully agree that because Part 15 does provide a means for a “form” of communications platform to distribute information or other program material, it does not mean that Part 15 is “in the way” of the so called “big boys”.
Big things come in small packages….especially in a crunch.
Anyway..if the above number of people were tuned in to a popular talk show and participating with call in’s and the station does not have any EAS monitoring or even a friggin weather radio…which btw also serves as a means for national emergency communications pathway….the listeners will not know there is an emergency.
If the Part 15 station had some sort of EAS monitoring at the very least, that Part 15 station can at the very least, inform its listeners at the time of the emergency and either direct those listeners to the appropriate primaries or update with live break-in’s and give out information.
Just because the signal is small..does not mean it is useless when there is an audience tuned in to it. Now it probably would be useless if people had 2 or more radios turned on at the same time listening to multiple stations all the time just to catch an EAS trigger signal while jamming out to Three Dog Night.
I use a two-tone decoder set for the still standard and used tone pairs that were used in the old EBS attention tone back in the day to trigger off a relay that un-mutes a receiver tuned to a primary EAS station for my area. This also sets off an indicator instead of un-muting the receiver in case I am in the studio doing production or on the air live so I have a visual monitor at those times. If there is a real emergency at least I can let my listeners know of it and proceed from that point.
I also use a regular weather radio with weather warning alarm and that is also customized into an un-mute and relay trigger circuit to put emergency weather warnings on the air. I can set both to manual or automatic operation which would cut in on the automation air audio chain and back.
No where in the rules does it say a Part 15 station cannot take it upon itself as well as the expense or low cost to be a volunteer participant even at minimum levels to help maintain public safety and awareness. Im sure that can hold up in a court case if necessary since EAS, DHS, TSA, et al, are interested in keeping us safe. Besides…it is truly providing a local public service.
Amateur Radio Service is indeed the fallback platform for communications during emergencies. However there is a problem with that….a serious problem.
Given the ratio of public airwaves (broadcast bands) radio receivers in the public hands versus amateur radios in the public hands…..which service will obviously have better chances of having the public mass be able to tune into it in an emergency situation…even if the “big boys” tall tower of power comes crumbling down???
DOH!
All I can say is do not so readily dismiss the abilities and service capabilities of Part 15 installations…or its potential to help protect and serve the public.
RFB
Total posts : 45366First, Part 15 is not a Part of the EAS plan because the Department of Homeland Security already made that decision. Part 15 is not considered a “broadcast” medium. This bus will not back up.
Second, the FCC EAS errata only deals with National TESTS. not local emergencies.
Third, EAS uses broadcast radio and television, cable TV, cell phones and any other technologies in certain circumstances (if warranted) to get information to the public. EAS with the CAP system can be activated by local, county, State and regional government entities, without federal authorization.
Fourth, in the case of a Presidential Declaration, only LP1 stations may initiate local message material and the voice and data messages are received, recorded digitally and rebroadcast almost immediately by certain designated broadcast stations.
Without a full understanding of the workings of the system locally, how can any of us offer an intelligent suggestion as to how Part 15 could interface with EAS. Each State has their own emergency notification plan, filed with the FCC and Homeland Security, based on population distribution, terrain, the scope and reach of the emergency message and many others.
I have worked with several emergency notification systems in broadcast and amateur radio for decades. And frankly, the preceding rants wouldn’t give me confidence, as a government official, that Part 15 operators could be trusted to do the job. Where is the accountability. I offered in a previous post that each operator, if they are interested in participation, get with their local emergency manager and come to some sort of memoranda of understanding (MOU) as to what you and your station are responsible for. Prove your training, prove your readiness, prove your ability to operate when everything else is in the ditch. Then, and only then, will you have street cred.
The opinion that here are no rules regarding Part 15 participation is true. Part 15 does not cover broadcasting rules. Those are found elsewhere in the totality of the FCC rules. Maybe, a look at the rules for amateur radio gives a hint as to the outcome. During a Presidential Declaration, ALL stations will listen for “traffic” and only those stations with RACES (not ARES) credentials will be allowed to transmit. This would suggest, you can listen to the LP1 station for messages, but you will not be permitted in this situation to transmit. This is not just my opinion. I have been trained as a first responder, by the Department of Homeland Security and local government emergency mangement in amateur radio (Wasco County, Oregon EC) for years.
I know some of this information won’t set well with some. But as they say in Chicago, Da Rules is Da Rules.
Total posts : 45366Well, I missed the emergency because I was listening to my mp3 player.
Total posts : 45366It seems to me the entire undercurrent of this discussion is not specifically the topic of a Part15’ers broadcasting position pertaining to EAS.. in itself. — But more so the legitimacy of Part15 public broadcasting in general.
I think Marshall, in frustration, is saying; “Hey, we’re here, we’re real, we’re useful, and should be acknowledged as a legitimate broadcasting medium – especially in the case of a national emergency!
And on the surface of this, Marshall is emphasizing there is a certain degree of responsibility that we, as public broadcasters, should have methods in place – protocols to follow in the case of emergency, so that we are ready to react and get the information out to the general public.
Marshall appears to take it seriously, and is pissed that the government treats Part15 as a insignificant public medium, in that it is not even acknowledged.
My own opinion is in agreement with Marshall, in that I wish for Part15 to be legitimized in the eyes of the officials, but I still think Carl best points out the upside of all this: ..But as part 15 stations it seems to me we could, assuming the technology is available to us, also carry government announcements on the EAS, simply because we’re not prohibited from doing so.
The fact that we are not required to test a system we are not required to have but not prohibited from having is good because it saves us from having to file reports within 45-days.
We can have cake and eat cake, or not.
Total posts : 45366RichPowers,
You have well summarized, at least for what I was putting forth.
I should let Marshall Johnson, Sr. indicate how he finds your sum-up, but for right now taking your sum-up to be on target, and then going a step further by combining those two points of view….
We, as part 15ers who take ourselves seriously, are essentially free to pave our own standards for emergency management. IF we find a way to economically have access to THE MESSAGE, if it comes to that, we can BROADCAST THAT MESSAGE ON OUR CARRIER, or we can do what I think The Crow suggested, alert all listeners to tune at once to a full power EAS source, and then shut ourselves down.
The fact that we haven’t been mentioned one way or the other leaves us free to make policy ourselves.
By the way, what emergency is the government planning to have?
Total posts : 45366In a constitutional democratic republic, the citizenry is allowed to be non-responsive to the government, even argumentative (we call it debate) to their own detriment. It is called freedom or free will. If you get caught with your pants down listening to your MP3 player, oh well. We will clean up your mess when the disaster has past (if you are still here). My point is this; to live in THIS society, some social responsibility from the individual member is taught and requested, not demanded by writ. You still have the right to be a complete imbecile if you choose to be, as long as it does not put the rest of us in danger.
In the case of federal licensees, some of those rights are agreed to have been relinquished as a condition of maintaining and operating a public trust; radio spectrum. Licensees are required by law to participate as a condition of continuing as a licensee. Even though Part 15 rules give many of us the opportunity to exercise our “broadcasting legs”, we are not part of the regulated public trust known as broadcasting. Just because you can set in your garage and make motor noises, doesn’t make you a car or even the same as a licensed driver. Your drivers license allows you the PRIVILEGE to drive on the road. The license does not allow you the freedom to drive whatever you want anyway you want ever. You break the agreed to rules, there is a consequence; even if you were listening to your MP3 player.
This isn’t complicated. Trying to prolong the issue lacks intellectual credulity.
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