- Posts
Hello, I setup a procaster a few days ago. I have to say it’s a nice product. And it does sound good. How ever, you might have guessed it.. I’m gonna complain about the range 🙂
Hello, I setup a procaster a few days ago. I have to say it’s a nice product. And it does sound good. How ever, you might have guessed it.. I’m gonna complain about the range 🙂
So once the tuning was done. I went for a drive and the station gets about .5 km noise free in one direction and then gone at 1 km and in the oposite direction it gets about .2 km before noise and .5 km before its gone.
I’m new to AM. Let me explain my setup.
I live in a small town a total lenth of about 2 miles of built up area. We are far away from any city or other AM station. In other words the band is all free up here. And the noise level is down because we are not in a city environment.
In my backyard I have some tall trees. I setup 3 sections of TV tower. For a total of 30 feet. I stood it up near a tree branch and about halfway up I bolted the tower to the tree. Thick branches stick out far away from the tree to make this possible in case your wondering. The whole idea I had behind it was to avoid having to use guide cables.
So First thing I did was setup the procaster at the top. I simply connected the RF ground lead to the tower for a whip and mass setup. The tuning was easy. And I did a range test and as mentioned it was not great at all considering the situation it seems like i’m getting the worst case function out of the unit. As if it where runing it ground level with no RF grounds at all!
So then I tried clamping on 3 long ground radials lenths of about 50 feet going out like a spider from the tower as I could in my backyard the one missing direction is where the house is :). I used close line cable and clamped them on to the base of the tower at the botton since the tower is “live” to the procaster RF ground. Remember. The only thing holding my tower is a tree. No other system or antennas are on this tower. I went up and did a re-tune. Range was identical.
The next day I went to the hardware store and got a 4 feet metal plate driled out with holes to pass treaded rod in them. Universal to build what ever. Garage Shelving etc…(A conductor) I got 3 rods of about 1/4 inch diamiter 6 feet. Passed them on this plate with a bolt to keep things tight to the ground. Ran the rods into the ground spaced close to 1 feet apart. This time disconnected the tower from the Procaster ground. Ran an insulated wire down fot the RF ground. connecting to this plate on the ground that has the rods in them and the ground radials connecting to this plate instead of the tower. So Now the tower is not live and is just holding the procaster.
The range is again identical with the execption that in static spots. The noise from 10 goes down to maybe a 9. Any one normal would not have even noticed.
So then I tried disconnecting the RF ground completely from the procaster. Did a retune. Range was almost the same. Maybe only lost .1 of a KM in all directions. Just a slight drop but with some more static.
From what im reading in forums I should have at lease an ideal setup for AM to work? But it does not seem to be that great even considering all the bonus + points such as low noise zone. Station free etc…..
I read in forums people simply lifting up the procaster at about 30 feet and using the tower as RF ground as whip and mass are getting 4 times more the range I am getting. No radials or ground rods…..
Back to my setup…There does not seem to be any obstuctions around. No power lines. The tree is holding the tower but te procaster antenna is over the tree line….
I would love any hints I could get to make this work. From what people are getting with it on average I should be able to cover my community very easy since im located in the middle of it!
Thanks all for your help!!
Total posts : 45366Sounds to me like the signal is getting absorbed and partially directed by the tree. The Procaster unit should be set up in the clear away from brush and trees. Of course that means dealing with guy wires etc.
RFB
Total posts : 45366I agree 100% with RFB, and I think it’s standard practice to put AM antennas out away from fences, trees, forests, buildings and everything.
Another problem with bolting the tower to the tree is that trees rotate and swing in high wind and your tower would get twisted all over the place.
Total posts : 45366Thanks for the infos!
Just more questions… How can the tree absorb the signal if the antenna part is well in the cleer of it? Like with VHF we mount antennas up in trees for free tower! I guess the low frequency makes that much of a difference?
So the first problem every one seems to agree on is the tree holding the tower even if the procaster antenna is in the cleer. So just close proximity is enough to absorb if im getting this right?
So at this point taking the procaster town from the tower and just instering it in the middle of my backyard away from everything at ground level at this point with no RF ground…. Should I be getting better?
It does seem to look like my range at the moment is next to nothing. Nothing to loose in trying it out I guess. Just lots of work when not knowing if its for the better or the worst hehe
thanks again.
Total posts : 45366In HAM radio it is true that hanging a wire from a tree gives a free “tower,” but the difference is that HAM is 100Watts or 1-Thousand Watts, much more power, and if some gets absorbed, the HAM can afford it.
With 1/10th of a Watt you want to avoid losing any of the signal by tree absorption.
A tree is a solid object, and to make it more complicated, the tree and leaves are filled with moisture, all of which blocks and absorbs RF signal.
Total posts : 45366“How can the tree absorb the signal if the antenna part is well in the cleer of it?”
When you did two previous tests with the RF return path (Procaster RF ground connection) with first the mast as the return conductor, and then the long wire, most of the RF energy was emitting off that ground path simply because it is longer than the radiating element at the top, naturally the long wavelength of the MW band will take advantage of that longer element (ground return path conductor) than the much shorter one at the top. At those two instances, the tree absorbed quite a bit of the signal and partially directed it in the direction where you had the longest range.
When you did the third test, no ground return path at all on the Procaster, you got pretty much what range you would expect from that unit mounted up in the air with no ground return path connected to it at all.
RFB
Total posts : 45366Thanks . I’m getting somewhere with this…
So at this point. I am limited for towers. So if the tree does what it does and you guys seem to think the range im getting is typical because of the tree, Would getting one of those radial kits work better in the middle of my backyard running the Procaster at ground level or would that just end up getting the same range as about .2 to .5 KM of good range?
Just trying to figure out what next.
Thanks
Total posts : 45366“So at this point taking the procaster town from the tower and just instering it in the middle of my backyard away from everything at ground level at this point with no RF ground…. Should I be getting better?”
Installing the Procaster 1 meter off the ground, and using that nice ground system you currently have for the previous tree/mast configuration, and in the clear, you should get a considerable improvement over the first attempts!
ADDING: With your ground radials extended outward from the center like spokes on a bicycle wheel, and anchored at the ends with the ground rods, that will VASTLY improve the results!
RFB
Total posts : 45366The ground rods are well in and its close to the tower/tree… I can take the procaster down and set it up in the middle of the backyard at 1 meter of the ground. But I would need to bring the ground at 100 feet plus to connect back to the ground rods. And because the ground rods are so close to the tree.. Would that also absorb the signal even if the procaster is away?
Total posts : 45366The better thing to do is relocate those ground rods and radials away from the tree and move them to the center where the Procaster will be so that the Procaster is in the center of the radials. Then anchor the radials at the ends with the ground rods. Adding a ground rod at the center will improve things as well….and keep it legal! 🙂
If you leave the ground system the way it is, your signal will become highly directional in the direction of the long ground connection from the Procaster and the ground system at the tree.
RFB
Total posts : 45366Thanks, I think what I may do then is take it down and do a temp install to hold the procaster in place in the middle of the backyard and use the ground system at the tree – Just to confirm that it does go well in one direction and that the ground system works and it was indeed the tree close by absorbing the RF, Then I could look at a perminent setup with ground radials all around.
Total posts : 45366So I took the Procaster down and ran it at 1 meter above ground level in the middle of my backyard as far away from the house and trees as I could. The range was maybe 500 feet. So far that has been the worst case.
So I put it up back on the tower hocked up to seperate RF ground going to ground rods and the radials… Original idea but this time I raised the mass another 10 feet giving a total of 40 feet hight. That seems to have given me back my original coverage that is not great but works but with maybe a little less noise. Now its as high as I can get it. And I can’t do any better with a RF ground system.
I guess it is what it is…
Thanks all for the help.
Total posts : 45366Based on my own particular experience and also on what I’ve learned from others on this website, I think your Procaster should do much better than 500-feet. It should easily do 1,000-feet and more, as many have experienced according tho their reports.
Somewhere there is a video linked on this site made by a guy who made a free-standing 3-meter antenna with radials at ground level and then he rode around with his car radio demonstrating a signal that went all over the place. I hope someone remembers the link.
I think he was using an ssTran AMT3000.
Total posts : 45366Problem with having that up on the mast using it as the return path, or the wire as the return path is it takes it outside of 15.219’s 3 meter antenna/feedline/ground lead limit. Though the ground lead thing is debated, stations have been shut down due to excessive ground connection lengths.
You will see better results from the 1 meter off the ground approach if you build a good ground radial system below the TX.
MW transmission, especially at the 100mW power level, really does need a good ground system to work and is a must if you want the range. Those who have reported a mile plus are running their systems over an elaborate ground radial system and ground rods and well clear of any trees or bushes or other obstructions like buildings etc.
Keep us updated on your progress!
RFB
Total posts : 45366In the fall of 2011 I bought a Procaster. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota and in a suburban apartment building so there is no way the landlord lady will let me get up on the roof to put an antenna or Procaster on the roof. So I lean the 3 metal pieces of antenna all attached to the wall, and the signal is pretty good for about 150 feet. Then there is a big dropoff of loud signal to a in the background signal up to almost a half mile, then after that…no signal. Friends tell me I should do a better job grounding it. First, I tryed the little screw on the 110v wallplate. I didn’t get any change at all for the better or worse. After a few more months I hooked a wire to the apt. bldg.
radiator but for some reason it worked negative against my Procaster cutting the coverage down from 150 feet to 40 feet??? How weird. This last week
the ground rod from the hardware store arrived so I pounded the rod outside my patio at least 2 feet into the ground. I hooked it up to the grounding lug, then again the Procaster lost some RF and sounded weaker while I had the unit grounded. I can’t understand this at all. I thought the ground would help me. Yes, certain directions the Procaster goes farther. The designer in Canada who built the Procaster indicated that the signal would really get out farther if I get out of the cage “the apartment building apartment” I have the unit in, so fine, I placed the Procaster out on the patio. But reception on my Ford Ranger radio sounds stronger in the parking lot when the Procaster transmitter is inside the apartment. I can’t tell any difference distancewise between having the transmitter out on the deck or inside the apartment. The range is about the same. Even driving around with the ground rod connected to the Procaster and then disconnecting the ground in my driving around I got the same signal 150 feet loud, then a secondary weaker signal up to almost a half mile. The whole thing puzzles me. Should I try now a Hamilton Rangemaster AM transmitter instead?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
