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I know there is a lot of discussions here and elsewhere, about expanding the current US FM broadcast band of 88.1 — 107.9MHz to include a new X band starting at 76MHz and continuing up to 107.9MHz.
There is a topic taking place at Radio discussions where a member there and a few others want this to expansion to take place.
This is something TheLegacy here at part15.us is asking for. Some there, are even asking for 54MHz and up to be included as well.
I know I am in 100% support of it as well.
Although there is not currently a lot of FM stereo radios available out there that can tune below 87.5MHz, I believe that once authorization is granted for an X band, manufacturers of digital FM tuners will include that capability in future designs.
Here is that topic if anyone wishes to contribute their opinion and support.
http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?598676-FM-X-Band-76-87-7-Mhz
Bruce.
Total posts : 45366One could already buy a Radio on Amazon that includes the Japan FM band 76-108 Mhz if they do pass that. And on the X band we could propose the 500mW power for unlicensed Radio stations in that X band. I think it would certainly get more folks to buy the new X band Radio’s. I’m sure it won’t be long before car Radio’s had the X band.
Total posts : 45366Oh shoot then again Bill says it won’t happen and we should forget it. Should we? Nahhh.
Total posts : 45366Don’t worry about Bill.
My little fortune cookie just told me ‘Bills’ are things we don’t always pay………….attention to.
Yes, that statement was meant to be a bit of humor.
Bruce.
Total posts : 45366Seems that North America is the only place where it’s 88-108…everywhere it’s 76-108(China, all of Europe and the UK, Japan, and Russia is 64-108.) Not sure about Austrailia or New Zealand. Tv is gone from there so there’s no reason it can’t be extended. Radios are made for 88-108 when they are for sale here. Yes I support extending it.
Mark
Total posts : 45366From wikipedia:
“In New Zealand residents are allowed to broadcast licence free-of-charge at a maximum of 1 watt EIRP in the FM guardbands from 87.6 to 88.3 and from 106.7 to 107.7 MHz under a General User Radio License (GURL), which is issued by Radio Spectrum Management, a business unit of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment.”
So it looks like they are substantially the same as North America.
Total posts : 45366From an Australian government publication:
“FM radio transmitters are assigned frequencies in the 87.5 to 108 MHz part of this band.”
Total posts : 45366Thanks for the info on unlicensed broadcasting in New zealand. Maybe we shoot for something similar.
Total posts : 45366There are full power DTV broadcasters using 2-6. The FCC can not compel them from their current facilities without compensation. At this moment there is no legislation letting the FCC try to clear VHF low.
The FCC is trying to get some TV stations out of the UHF band. That is being done by moving them to VHF (2-13), sharing agreements, and license turn ins. There is no incentive for them to clear 5/6 or 2-6. On the other hand there is a ton of money on the table for them to get stations from 14-51 into 2-6. Largely 7-13 are in use in the large markets so UHF to VHF high moves are not going to happen where there is a spectrum crunch.
So, if you want 5 and 6 opened up, we need to reduce the spectrum crunch. For example, if the cell phone companies could put up more towers they could use smaller cells to allow more frequency reuse. Then they would not need more UHF frequencies.
Back to my first thought and what I just said: an expanded FM band would require an act of congress to enable more spectrum reuse (prevent tower blocking) and to authorize the FCC to clear VHF low.
Also as a reality check: If FCC licensed AM broadcasters wanted an expanded FM band in 5/6 and the FCC didn’t do it, it is hard to imagine unlicensed users making it happen.
Total posts : 45366Over at the ALPB facebook page, someone stated that the FCC is considering expanding the FM band to 66-108 Mhz. But I haven’t seen or heard anything about that. Does anyone know what that information might have come from (or is it just wishful thinking)?
Total posts : 45366I just can’t imagine any serious consideration of expanding the FM band for broadcast radio use. I realistically don’t see a real shortage of frequencies now. I mean 88-108 gives us what a hundred spots? In what area is a potential of 100 stations not enough? Now, I know there is a huge hodge-podge of coverage and interference issues, and AM’ers trying to get translators, and so forth and so on. But when push comes to shove there will be a lot of other interests fighting for that spectrum.
Interesting story that sort of relates. Last weekeng I was driving through Mpls/St. Paul and using the scan on my AM radio to see if I could find a station I liked. Lo and behold the radio lands on 740 AM WDGY playing oldies (real oldies, like 1960’s). When I was a kid living in Minneapolis in the 60’s, WDGY was on 1130 and was a rock and roll station, so this was kind of a hoot. Anyway the signal was kinda crappy, but listenable. All of a sudden a promo came on that said, basically “WDGY Now with More POWER on 107.1 FM” so I’m like hell yeah! So I flip over to 107.1 FM and it’s boring talk radio. I think I must have misheard the frequency so I go back to 740 AM. A while later I hear the promo again and I had the frequency right, so I go back to 107.1 FM. Talk radio. But wait! What’s THIS? I see a little HD logo has activated on my cars screen! And what’s THIS?? A little doodad has appeared that says “Multicast 1-2-3-4” So I touch this and it goes to 107.1 HD2 and low and behold OLDIES! Now, I knew this technology existed, but up in the boonies where I live no one is broadcasting in HD, much less multicasting! I notice that as I punch through the button I get a total of FOUR different “stations” all on 107.1! Research shows me this is the Ibiquity HD Multicast system. So I wonder who else is using this? So I scan FM and I’ll bet 75% of the FM stations in Minneapolis/St. Paul are multicasting! So this gives us over 400 potential stations/formats on the band, and more are possible. The Ibiquity system is the FCC type accepted system for FM HD radio. So, NOW i’m intrigued!
So, where I work, we’re a 5,000 watt AM with a south restricted directional signal at night, which drives the boss crazy. 20 miles south you can barely hear us, but 100 miles north we come booming in. Anyway, we also have a 100,000 watt FM that needs a new transmitter (we’re still running a 40 year old RCA transmitter). A new transmitter would certainly be digital capable (like our new AM transmitter is) so we could easily use HD2 to put our AM on. 100,000 watt coverage! We had been talking about a translator on FM for our AM but the investent is MUCH greater than anyone would expect by the time you get through the engineering work required by the FCC not to mention the FCC legal costs, etc. Anyway, putting it on our own FM in HD would be HUGE. I’ve already discussed adding Iron Range Country to the HD3 slot! Then we talked about rerunning our decades of high school sports games archived on HD4 as a “High School Sports Classic Station” that would actually be used for carrying additional live games when we run out of stations (we often have a game on AM and FM, and wish we had a place to broadcast a third). So we would have that flexibility.
I see this as a great way for old AM’s to fix their coverage issues without haveing to use more spectrum. if they also own an FM, or could lease a spot from another FM, etc. Also as a revenue generator for FM’s with a system i place who could lease a spot to others — after all it doesn’t have to be a music format — people are broadcasting traffic, weather, stock prices, data, all sorts of things.
There’s potential here I never even thought of!
Tim in Bovey
Total posts : 45366Tim, I enjoyed reading your post.
There are not quite 100 stations available in every area. If someone is right next to a full power transmitter doing vanilla stereo FM (no SCA/RDS/HD) the transmitter is going to hurt reception of adjacent stations from energy that reasonable filters cannot attenuate and de sense of the receiver. Farther away from the transmitter it may be possible to receive distant signals on adjacent stations depending on the selectivity of the receiver. FM transmitters are everywhere so it is likely some channels will be blocked by an adjacent station. For full power stations using SCA/RDS they are allowed enough deviation that their signal can put energy into an adjacent channel possibly interfering with reception of a station on the adjacent channel. Close in, an HD signal blankets adjacent channels with noise so nothing gets through.
Realistically the densest market will have a HD station, a blank space, a translator (or a LPFM), then another HD station. An extra signal can get on the air if there is an analog LPTV on CH6 which puts audio on 87.7. The most HD’s I have ever seen on a signal is 4. So if a hypothetical market starts with an analog LPTV on CH6, then has a HD on 88.3, and a translator on 88.7, and a HD on 89.1 and a translator on 89.5 (and so on up the dial), with each HD having 4 different programs, and the translators being fed with signals not available on HD’s (so satellite feed in the noncommercial band, or retransmission of AM’s in the commercial band), it would be possible to get 126 unique signals on the FM dial using analog/HD. If an FM station went all digital they could have more than 4 signals, but if there is ever a FM digital conversion it is a long way off.
In reality, no market will be that dense. If one market was that dense then the surrounding markets could only have full power stations on every 4th channel (the translators), and the markets farther than that would be on all the channels occupied by HD sidebands. Also some (or most) of the translators would be fed by HD sub channels reducing the total unique signals.
If HD radios were more wide spread then there could be significantly more use of the HD2/3/4’s, but in many markets they are an afterthought. But HD radio is another reason an expanded FM band probably won’t happen. An expanded FM band would need new radios and if Congress/The FCC were to require new radios to support an expanded FM band the HD Radio lobby would push to require HD radio chips in every new radio sold, which would make crappy radios start at $50. And it may be in HD radio’s best interest to keep the FM band as is. If the FCC decided there is a space crunch on the FM dial, the HD radio lobby could push HD2/3/4’s as the solution. Overnight a market could go from having 16 stations (assuming they are spaced every 6 channels) to 64 stations using HD2/3/4’s. To a politician it is a convincing argument, why pay TV stations to relocate from 76-88 MHz to increase the FM band by 60% when stations going HD can increase the number of stations by 300%. (There are all sorts of holes in that, but I am examining it how someone talking to a policy maker could portray the numbers).
On the other hand, an AM on a FM’s HD2/3/4 makes sense. As far as I know, no one is making really good AM radios to improve my AM reception. Also antennas to help with AM reception are big. So to improve my AM reception I am going to find a used old AM radio that will have a price premium for being a really good AM radio and either put up a beverage (big and ugly), or fuss with a tuned loop. Or I can buy a HD radio for $50, put up an FM Yagi on my roof and listen to the AM station as a HD2/3/4.
Tim, I enjoyed reading your post.There are not quite 100 stations available in every area. If someone is right next to a full power transmitter doing vanilla stereo FM (no SCA/RDS/HD) the transmitter is going to hurt reception of adjacent stations from energy that reasonable filters cannot attenuate and de sense of the receiver. Farther away from the transmitter it may be possible to receive distant signals on adjacent stations depending on the selectivity of the receiver. FM transmitters are everywhere so it is likely some channels will be blocked by an adjacent station. For full power stations using SCA/RDS they are allowed enough deviation that their signal can put energy into an adjacent channel possibly interfering with reception of a station on the adjacent channel. Close in, an HD signal blankets adjacent channels with noise so nothing gets through.
Realistically the densest market will have a HD station, a blank space, a translator (or a LPFM), then another HD station. An extra signal can get on the air if there is an analog LPTV on CH6 which puts audio on 87.7. The most HD’s I have ever seen on a signal is 4. So if a hypothetical market starts with an analog LPTV on CH6, then has a HD on 88.3, and a translator on 88.7, and a HD on 89.1 and a translator on 89.5 (and so on up the dial), with each HD having 4 different programs, and the translators being fed with signals not available on HD’s (so satellite feed in the noncommercial band, or retransmission of AM’s in the commercial band), it would be possible to get 126 unique signals on the FM dial using analog/HD. If an FM station went all digital they could have more than 4 signals, but if there is ever a FM digital conversion it is a long way off.
In reality, no market will be that dense. If one market was that dense then the surrounding markets could only have full power stations on every 4th channel (the translators), and the markets farther than that would be on all the channels occupied by HD sidebands. Also some (or most) of the translators would be fed by HD sub channels reducing the total unique signals.
If HD radios were more wide spread then there could be significantly more use of the HD2/3/4’s, but in many markets they are an afterthought. But HD radio is another reason an expanded FM band probably won’t happen. An expanded FM band would need new radios and if Congress/The FCC were to require new radios to support an expanded FM band the HD Radio lobby would push to require HD radio chips in every new radio sold, which would make crappy radios start at $50. And it may be in HD radio’s best interest to keep the FM band as is. If the FCC decided there is a space crunch on the FM dial, the HD radio lobby could push HD2/3/4’s as the solution. Overnight a market could go from having 16 stations (assuming they are spaced every 6 channels) to 64 stations using HD2/3/4’s. To a politician it is a convincing argument, why pay TV stations to relocate from 76-88 MHz to increase the FM band by 60% when stations going HD can increase the number of stations by 300%. (There are all sorts of holes in that, but I am examining it how someone talking to a policy maker could portray the numbers).
On the other hand, an AM on a FM’s HD2/3/4 makes sense. As far as I know, no one is making really good AM radios to improve my AM reception. Also antennas to help with AM reception are big. So to improve my AM reception I am going to find a used old AM radio that will have a price premium for being a really good AM radio and either put up a beverage (big and ugly), or fuss with a tuned loop. Or I can buy a HD radio for $50, put up an FM Yagi on my roof and listen to the AM station as a HD2/3/4.
Total posts : 45366As to whether the FM band in The Homeland should be expanded, I have no opinion.
If I had an opinion, it would be reasoned as follows: I think we have enough FM space as it is, if the stations would get together and work out program diversity like mature adults. That’s not going to happen.
Therefore I would predict that the FM band will expand, because blighted shopping malls are always solved by opening more shopping malls. FM bands, shopping malls, totally comparable.
Total posts : 45366It will not be expanded. The FCC has other plans that involve $$$. Maybe Rich can chime in.
Total posts : 45366What if we get the extended part 15 approved and we could legally on paper transmit ¼ to 1 mile to a portable digital boom box. But we had to pay a monthly fee for the frequency (say $35-40). Sense the FCC is all about money these days they would have to buy the frequency for their local area and be used on a base station (not portable) transmitter? Its a possibility. The extra fee may go to the NAB for the 3-5 listeners they lose a day. You’d be required to connect your transmitter to your computer each month and if you didn’t pay you don’t get the activation code to renew your transmitter for the next month. Sort of how Napster and Rhapsody works.
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