- February 22, 2019 at 12:42 pm #109729
I’ve posted previously that Canada’s music copyright laws are much more reasonable than those in the U.S.
Copyright exists in the recording of all published works for 50 years (i.e., these recordings go into the public domain on January of the next calendar year). Arrangements of specific music are considered part of the recording. The 50 years was changed to 75 years in 2015, but all existing works that had slipped into the public domain at that time were not affected. Practically speaking, what that means is that anything recorded and released in 1964 or prior is in the public domain.
Copyright law is a little more complicated for music (i.e., the lyrics, score, etc.). Copyright exists for 50 years after the last remaining creator passes away. Since usually there are multiple people contributing to the creation of music, copyright can exist for a lot longer period. The laws were supposed to have been changed (to 75 years after the last creator passes away) once the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) was signed. That was at the insistence of the United States; however, the U.S. pulled out of the agreement, and the resulting agreement (called the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership) that was signed by the remaining countries (11) appears to have scaled back that clause. I have not been able to find anything about extended music copyright as a result of Canada signing that agreement.
Many participants in this forum in the past have bemoaned the lack of public domain material to play (and/or stream) on their radio stations. Based on the above facts, in Canada at least, virtually all classical music that was recorded and published prior to 1964 is in the public domain (it excludes some of the more modern ‘classical’ composers, but that phrase is really an oxymoron). Some of the greatest classical recordings of all time fall into that time period, including Karajan’s Beethoven Symphonies, Wagner opera and a ton of other stuff. Just the other day I went to a thrift store and picked up many CD’s (mostly from the Philips Concert Classics series – reissues of famous recordings) that fit into this time period.
My plan is to start playing (and streaming) this public domain material (instrumental and opera), along with some OTR (Old Time Radio). I was previously, when broadcasting, doing public domain jazz, but tracing the public domain status of each 2-3 minute song was just too time consuming (and in many cases, indeterminate). The best thing about using classical music is that no licensing for any of it is required!
One of my long term goals is to host a Baroque classical music show, as well as an Opera one (I’ve collected many obscure operas over the years that are in the public domain). Even though I really don’t have a radio voice (I envy Carl and Thelegacy), I’m going to give it a go.
You can’t get better unless you try.
- February 22, 2019 at 1:30 pm #109732
That’ll be a great radio station, Artisan!
Never mind being self-conscious about the voice… I’ve heard you at a few Teamspeak meetings and you sound like a normal kind of person, you’ll do fine.
And The Legacy does have a good voice. I’ve never actually heard it, but I believe you.
- February 22, 2019 at 2:48 pm #109734
Total posts : 369
I think you have a great idea there. I don’t think there’s any classical music on the dial in my area. Whatever type of programming a part 15 station does I think should be an alternative to what’s usually found on the dial.. I mean it seems a lot of hobbyist kind of try to mimic the licensed stations (or rather that’s the impression I get), but really, what’s the point in that? But of course some do it because they used to be in the broadcast industry and it is they’re way of continuing they’ve always done because they enjoyed it – which is a very good reason.
- February 22, 2019 at 4:44 pm #109738
Total posts : 168
Artisan I wish you the best of luck on your classical station. There are not that many of those kind of radio stations anymore and a lot of professors and people in my age group listen to classical music.
I remember when National Public Radio actually used to play that type of stuff. They also used to play Hearts and space which was a mixture of classical and electronic Rock. But as far as announcing the songs it’s done pretty much the same way in album rock station does you announce the artist the album it came from in the name of the song. I’ve heard classical music stations talk about the key that the song was played in as well. But that doesn’t have to always be the case.
If you are really clever and he had some perfectly good 78 with little or no scratches you could rig up some sort of an amplifier and you could even digitize those. I’ve heard of it being done.
By doing this you’re doing something that’s not done by everybody and their brother or sister. It makes your radio station unique from everybody else. That’s the whole purpose behind this hobby like I said I wish you the best of luck let me know how it turns out.
One more thing thank you for commenting on my voice. It took a lot of practice I used to get messed up a few times on things sometimes still make mistakes when I’m trying to go over something too quickly. But practice makes you better and better. So the more you do it the better off you’re going to be. When I started off around 2008 or so it was all experimental but I used to do radio back around 1978 to 1979. So after watching the movie Pirate Radio and my stepson wanting me to build one well I sort of built the internet radio station and then everything else fell into place thereafter.
- February 22, 2019 at 5:39 pm #109739
Interesting that you should mention digitizing 78s, Thelegacy.
I have a turntable/record player that is capable of playing 78s and 12 inch transcription records. I’ve already digitized quite a few, including some Old Time Radio.
I’ve run across both 78 and 45 rpm classical records in thrift stores (generally sets with multiple records, as the play times are reduced for these) – guaranteed to be in the public domain (at least the recording). I’m thinking of purchasing some of those for digital conversion and broadcast.
You’re right. If anyone is broadcasting classical these days, it’s usually modern recordings from digital sources. Going all public domain, from vinyl sources would certainly make me unique.
- February 22, 2019 at 7:20 pm #109740
Like other posts I wish you the best and you will sound great on the air as long as you don’t stumble over your words and you can keep talking but as for being different from everyone else you aren’t talking about over the air radio like BETS, you mentioned streaming. That’s a different thing and no matter what your chosen format there’s 1000s of others doing the same format so you are not necessarily unique.
On the air there’s very little classical stations but in Toronto there’s one and they play all the contemporary composers that we all know or have heard of along with others and more modern compositions. But that’s probably the one of 4 or 5 in the whole country if that much.
But remember if over the air BETS/RSS-210 as you know by my findings no music license is need for anything. It’s streaming that needs a music license but the cost is not prohibitive.
- February 22, 2019 at 7:32 pm #109741
Mark Makes an Estimate
“1000s of others doing the same format so you are not necessarily unique.”
I’ve really looked around at what streaming stations are doing and the greater majority of them are doing some form of rock or pop and far fewer doing talk or classical.
When it comes to classical there are great differences in terms of the actual playlist. There are the so-called “war horses” which are well known classical pieces heard a lot, but it’s pretty rare to hear uncommon and unfamiliar classics.
What I mean is that there is room to be unique with classical music.
- February 22, 2019 at 7:59 pm #109742
- February 22, 2019 at 9:04 pm #109743
The main reason that I’m going to play public domain material is that I want to stream.
It’s not the cost of licensing that worries me so much; it’s the hassle of keeping track of what I play and reporting to the licensing bodies.
Who knows, I may even get a few listeners.
And yes, there is life in classical music other than Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, et al. It’s like what I found out about 50’s & 60’s music – you generally only hear the top 10 from any given year, but there’s a wealth of material available (and a lot of it is as good or better). You only need to look for it.
- February 22, 2019 at 10:15 pm #109745
Artisan said: “And yes, there is life in classical music other than Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, et al. It’s like what I found out about 50’s & 60’s music – you generally only hear the top 10 from any given year, but there’s a wealth of material available (and a lot of it is as good or better). You only need to look for it.”
Couldn’t agree more!
Also agree the big problem is keeping a log and reporting to the licensing bodies.
- February 23, 2019 at 6:32 am #109746
Total posts : 168
I still think Artisan won’t have any issues he could simulcast his station vie Stream and FM if he wants. In the USA you have StreamLicensing that does the reporting automatically. I don’t know if Live365 covers Canada or not I only know about the USA and that StreamLicensing does handle SOCAN for Canada.
A good solution for Icecast is Prostreaming(dot)net and Wes is a cool dude. He also runs DJC Media if you want the Ad-Supported method as my Album Rock station is on his network and I have plenty of simultaneous listeners at once. So the network will handle it. It has Centovacast as a back up in case my Internet goes flaky. My sponsor pays for 100 GB of back up Auto DJ the most any service offers for a back up.
I wish you all the best. If you have the passion you’ll succeed at it.
- February 25, 2019 at 5:29 am #109780
- February 24, 2019 at 6:04 am #109766
Total posts : 534
Remember, in the USA licensing for streaming is different and separate from that for broadcasting over the air.
Although most classical music (at least, in the USA anything written prior to 1924) is in the public domain. And since licensing for broadcast over the air in the USA only covers writers, this music would be clear to broadcast.
However, if you are STREAMING the PERFORMERS of the music must get paid, and that’s what you need to watch out for. Even if you’re playing Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony written in 1808, if the Boston Philharmonic is performing it and you’re streaming it, you need to be paying the royalties for the recorded performance. In the USA this is paid through SoundExchange.
There is NO Public Domain music that can be streamed in the USA unless YOU, or someone you hired is performing it. Or if you have specific clearance from the performers for streaming their performance (which better be in writing).
FWIW Minnesota Public Radio offers classical music stations throughout the state — we have 42 such stations to choose from readily available in pretty much any place in the state. As to their variety of programming I don’t know. But they are full time classical stations so they need more than the top ten!
- February 24, 2019 at 7:54 am #109769
The weekly SymphonyCast features concerts by major orchestras and is free from American Public Media.
It would seem that APM owns the recording, performance, and release rights to the material, so Record Exchange probably has no claim in this instance.
Is that a safe estimation?
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by Carl Blare.
- February 24, 2019 at 9:23 am #109772
In the US, the earliest date for musical recordings falling into the public domain is 2067 (thank the Sonny Bono law).
That’s ludicrous, and defeats the purpose of having a public domain in the first place (to ensure that valuable historical recordings aren’t lost, i.e., held on to by the copyright holders but not used).
It’s ironic that the US was pushing for copyright law extensions in the defunct TPP, and most countries were willing to go along with it, but ended up losing them by pulling out of the agreement in a funk. That not only included music copyrights, but also intellectual copyrights.
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