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I have a talking house new version and I am looking to use it for my restaurant to let people tune into and find out our daily specials ect so I am looking to see the best way I can make or what to buy that will extend the range to around 1/2 mile… antenna wise can i just use rg-6 cable and an antenna outside or is there more to this?
thanks
Bret
Total posts : 45366Can I use just a cb antenna to get the distance or is that still not enough? and also I am assuming that I need a Vertical antenna not horizontal?
Total posts : 45366If so, you should be able to screw in the 102″ steel whip and tune it up for your frequency. That should be all you need unless of course you aren’t able to ground the atu.
If I am understanding this correctly the ATU needs to be grounded at ground level, in other words a ground rod or steak attached to the atu and driven into the soil.
If you were going to place the antenna/atu on the second floor or on the roof of your business, you might be able to strap the ground to the air conditioner housing or some other type of electrical ground.
Some others on this board may have better suggestions as I have not been able to buy the atu and I have the 4.2 versions of talking house.
But i like your idea for selling your products.
Maybe slip some music into the mix between your ads.There is a slight chance i might have misunderstood you, so just in case: I would not advise running cable directly to a steel whip without some kind of coil or atu in-line, your range if any, will be a few yards with a mis-matched antenna.
And Yes, it needs to be vertical, horizontal just wont yield enough range to cover 1/2 mile and is not very efficient on the AM Broadcast Band.
Total posts : 45366thanks for the comment but I do not have the ATU I wish I did would solve alot of problems just have the unit and small wire it cam with
Total posts : 45366A recent copy of the manual
http://part15.us/files.p15/TH_instruct.pdf
An older TH Tech Newsletter
http://part15.us/files.p15/TH_tech_NL.html
You might also want to check out the Oregon Sea Grant info on scripting and using Low Power Radio for promotion, here:
Oregon Sea Grant Low Power Radio Study
Music is a great idea, too – just be sure to use royalty-free stuff, like you can find here:
Total posts : 45366It will likely be worse than the 10′ wire that came with it. It all has to do with wavelengths of frequencies in the AM broadcast band. Most antennas work well at 1/4 wavelength. In the middle of the AM band that’s about 70 feet, but the Part 15 rules say the antenna, transmission line, and ground lead together must be 3 meters (just shy of 10′) or less.
That means you have a short wire antenna, and it’s difficult to load it to get more range. It can be done with loading coils or ATUs, and there is tons of discussions here about that, which also include ground radials and other types of ground systems.
Total posts : 45366You might be able to tune down a 160 meter (amateur radio) mobile antenna to the 1.6-1.7 Mhz range.
Total posts : 45366can I build ……. Constructing a Base-Loaded Vertical Antenna from the sstran site they have there and will it work on my talking house unit? has anyone tried? any ideas? plus I am alittle confused about the coiling i see that it varys from so many turns of the wire? what is that all about sorry I am new to alot of this and learning just trying to find a way to get 1/2 mile range with my talking house
Thanks
Total posts : 45366If you have a weather tight enclosure, you could place the Talking House on the roof (you have a flat roof?) The wire antenna connected to the internal ATU could be replaced with a rod of the same length as the wire and mounted vertically. That way the internal ATU would tune the antenna rod.
The Talking House relies on the ground connection through the 3 wire AC power plug but you might improve the range some by connecting ground radials (wires equally spaced running away from the transmitter connected to the metal chassi.)
Of course you’d have to run an audio cable for program audio in addition to a power cord to the unit. You could use the internal AUDIO MESSAGE recorder but that would be a pain to do if you have to change the message very often. Most use a PC to record/play program audio.
The SSTRAN antenna would work but you’d want to use the EXTERNAL antenna connection. Connecting it to the WIRE port would not work very well if at all.
Total posts : 45366can I build ……. Constructing a Base-Loaded Vertical Antenna from the sstran site they have there and will it work on my talking house unit?
I’d say ‘yes’. I have a coil system that’s a kind of cross between an Sstran style and a Manteca Magnum style. Depending on EMI/RFI from buildings in town, I can get max about 12 blocks, but that’s with no RF ground and antenna not perfectly matched. I doubt I could get much further, but if it resonates on the dot, it would probably get clearer.
Total posts : 45366thanks for the info I think I am going to try to do it today and see what happens….also if I go with the sstrans antenna and wrap it like it says I should be ok right? I see that people have a formula to find out what they need as I am just using a talking house and just want a 1/2 mile range if I get more then ok but only looking for 1/2 mile…wish I could find one at radio shck…lmao
Total posts : 45366I’m not that experienced, but it seems to me that coil winding is more art than science (well, physics still applies) because all sorts of things affect it such as core diameter and material, wire type and gauge, etc.
I liked the inline character of the second (or ‘improved’) SSTRAN antenna system. More skin effect and induction from larger diameter radiator pipes and coil core. I basically changed the coil core to the Manteca Magnum type wich is even larger, except with drain pipe (thinner wall) — 4″ with 18 awg multistrand insulated wire.
If you use stranded wire instead of solid, then strand count becomes more important. I think more and finer strands is better. The insulation jacket is a little heavier too, providing some separation between turns, and it’s also easier to wind, but harder to control the tap tabs.
I prepared the core by making as accurate calculations and measurements as I could and sprayed it with art mounting spray. That trick helped immensely to hold the turns in place as I wound it.
Total posts : 45366yes I plan on going with the new version and a few questions
I have found most of the pvc parts at the store…now the wire..does it have to be a certain type? does anyone know if home depot or lowes carrys the type I need? I am going to start step by step for sure on this need to get it done asap but do not wanna mess it up
thanks
Breti did see this on a forum i wonder if this would be easier it is all there just need the antenna?
Measures 2-1/2″ Wide x 1-1/4″ Dia. Inductance=350µH.
Nice size for loading a 3 meter antenna – just unwind to get the uH you need. More
My rough calculations indicate that with a 9’8″ long 1″ diameter copper pipe, 350 uH would tune you down to around 1400 KHz. If you use 1500, 1600 or 1700 you might try unwinding 10, 17 or 24 turns to get a match.
At $3.95 each these will be hard to resist.
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p91.htm#Pre-Wound_Coil_Form
Total posts : 45366When winding a coil, use insulated solid core wire. Stranded wire will not have the same inductive properties as solid core wire. Remember each strand of the wire is another winding and close wound with other strands and stands to cancel any inductance in other windings instead of being additive. Spacing between windings significantly effects the final total inductance of the coil as well.
A good source of cheap coil wire is a motor re-wind shop. Ask if they have any left-over wire or wire they have removed from a motor that still may be usable. I have recovered several hundred feet of wire for antenna coils using this method.
Total posts : 45366Marshall wrote:
When winding a coil, use insulated solid core wire. Stranded wire will not have the same inductive properties as solid core wire. Remember each strand of the wire is another winding and close wound with other strands and stands to cancel any inductance in other windings instead of being additive.
One argument of stranded vs. solid wire says the stranded version has more surface area … where it counts. Apparently that was the professor’s idea who designed the Manteca Magnum antenna system. Be aware: That is a one-way antenna system. If built exactly to plan, it probably won’t work on anything but 1700 kHz.
I have no choice but to agree abouit the inability to know consistency in wire diameter. I am quite sure that if you use stranded wire, it should be more and finer strands. But how to tell the difference in performance would be difficult to predict.
In my situation, I did not tap the coil in the second iteration. Instead, I made several sets of calculations, added more turns, used a white PVC drain pipe for core material (much thinner wall), and used it with a Shakespeare VHF antenna which was top-of-the-line in its day. I bought it for $4 at a local recycle center. It did quite well at 1710, all things considered.
I bought another package of 18 awg multi strand wire at Radio Shack. I expected it to be the same as before, except a different color insulator jacket. It was not … the strands were much courser and fewer. I don’t think it will perform the same as before, so I won’t use it for coils.
I think that any coil builders using plans should find out the exact wire size, type and material of insulator, exact core material, etc. If they don’t use the same exact materials and construction as the plans model, it will perform differently. Might be better, might be worse … no way to know for sure.
I was reading several other messages on the forum and blogs which referred to actual air wound coils, i.e., only acrylic plastic separator vanes with specific spacing for support. These are tubular or single heavy wire coils (skin effect is a factor) as used in higher frequiency systems. But these would be impractical for the number of turns reequired for AM BCB Part 15 systems.
However, I don’t see that there is a requirement for vertical inline mounting. IOW, it could be mounted horizontally for better support.
One of the messages indicated wire with less resistance (thicker), thinnest possible (or air) non-conductive core materials, and correct spacing as an ideal.
Spacing between windings significantly effects the final total inductance of the coil as well.
So, what should the spacing be? For example, the SStran antenna plans that have been shown to be relatively successful have close-wound coils of magnet wire … but Ermi has previously indicated that coil turns should be separated by 1-wire diameter … like winding two sets of wires simultaneously, then pulling one out, claiming that close-winding causes loss due to coupling. Note: I thought coupling due to close-winding would be additive rather than subtractive … i.e., close-winding produces higher overall induction.
These two forms of theory seem to be in opposition to one another. IOW, they can’t both be true … so which one is?
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