- January 4, 2019 at 1:32 pm #108528
FCC Releases licensed station count for final quarter of 2018January 4, 2019 at 4:45 pm #108530MarkModerator
Total posts : 564
Well, based on this, they better soon expand the FM band to 76-108 like elsewhere as TV is no longer there and it’s blank space anyways. No radios with TV audio from channels 2-13 have anything there so why can’t FM go down to 76 mHz?
AM expanded and that wasn’t even needed as space was never at a premium.January 4, 2019 at 8:00 pm #108532ThelegacyParticipant
Total posts : 291
the writing is on the wall so Now let’s ask for 10 Watts and 1620-1700 for hobby broadcasting. That would go 3 miles to a Good portable.
But some will go down with the sinking ship.January 5, 2019 at 5:33 am #108533
10 Watts in 1620-1710 is already a licensed radio venue, it’s called TIS.January 5, 2019 at 6:12 am #108534
What the Future Should Be
R. Powers said: “10 Watts in 1620-1710 is already a licensed radio venue, it’s called TIS.”
There is logic in viewing TIS as the ultimate future of AM radio.
Traffic Information Stations are intended to provide useful and necessary public information over a limited area.
Meanwhile the full-power licensed AM stations sucking up all that electricity and contributing to global warming are all at once looked-to during large scale emergencies but only a small fraction of them manage to provide vital information.
When tomorrow comes and mankind is saved we should have two classes of TIS stations on the AM dial.
The 10-Watt class would contiue to provide local area information, and their new big brothers the 10 kW TIS stations would exist primarily for large area public information.
The remainder of the medium wave (AM) band would go to Home Radio… the future of part 15 with license free stations programmed and operated by those home owners who decide to host a radio station serving their neighborhood. Obviously not everyone on the street will want to be bothered, so it will fall to us… the faithful and loyal keepers of the low power flicker.January 5, 2019 at 6:57 am #108536
What I meant was those power levels on the expanded band is already allocated as a licensed service. That licensed service was originally created almost specifically to lessen the then growing utilization of unlicensed part15 for that same purpose.
Part 15 by definition can not possibly achieve any appreciable range, that would be in direct contradiction to it’s created purpose and capability. We are already fortunate that it has always been permitted to operate under 15.219 beyond what the rule as it is written actually permits. The only hope of the hobby broadcaster ever being permitted higher power in the broadcast bands would be the creation of a new class of licensed broadcasting, which of course with it would incur additional expense and stipulations.
Part 15 is essentially free of legal operating cost, and free of any paperwork, and free from any control of what or when your permitted to air.. Part 15 is… free. Like riding you’re bicycle, if you want to more power you can drive a car, but that requires a license, fuel expense, insurance.. which of course is not free.
Hope for more power in part 15 is a fairy tale.January 5, 2019 at 7:55 am #108537
“What I meant was those power levels on the expanded band is already allocated as a licensed service.”
Yes Rich Powers, I agreed with what you said in what I said. T.I.S. already exists as a 10-Watt service.
Of course as an existing service T.I.S. could grow and expand in the ways I wrote about.
Also, agreeing that present-day part 15 is not apt to change to the degree hoped by operators wanting to reach more range, so I called it “Home Radio”.
However, I disagree with myself for calling “Home Radio” the future of part 15. It would be better to say that it would be a new class to allow use of the abandoned AM band for neighborhood radio service on a scale smaller than LPFM and unlimited as to ownership.
The bug in the idea is that untrained operators while be technically unqualified to operate anything above part 15 levels and even those with skills may be hampered by location or budget.
Therefore the problem for unlicensed operation above current part 15 levels is not simply a matter of more Wattage.
But as the medium wave band becomes blighted, we are reasonable to have an interest in utilizing the spectrum.January 5, 2019 at 12:25 pm #108538
Well, I don’t think I said or implied anything to say the future of Part 15 was “Home Radio”, but I doubt there’s any chance of the FCC ever permitting it’s operation to cover ranges any farther than a mile.. in fact a half mile seems to be the “acceptable” range of such installations, always has been, and that’s likely how it will remain.
As for the possibility TIS stations reach expanding.. that’s not so unlikely a scenario, in fact it’s already occurred in some cases; with the recent wildfire disasters TIS was provided waivers to up their power and many installations have been upgraded in response. A few years ago a new “mega-sized” TIS in Pennsylvania was granted several waivers in it’s construction which resulted in multiplying it’s range threefold: http://www.theradiosource.com/articles/news-2015-aug.htm
I tend to have a keen interest in TIS, not just because it originated out of 15.219 back on the 70’s, but because I believe it’s the very thing that will might actually keep the AM broadcast bands from disappearing from automobile and home radios.
I find it interesting that the FCC maintains the database of all broadcast facilities with the exception of one category- which is TIS.. That is maintained by Homeland Security, and I don’t think their going to let it go away, because it’s the most dependable method of communicating with the public in times of disaster (such as the recent wildfires) when all other forms of communication were down.January 5, 2019 at 12:41 pm #108539
“…The bug in the idea is that untrained operators while be technically unqualified to operate anything above part 15 levels and even those with skills may be hampered by location or budget. Therefore the problem for unlicensed operation above current part 15 levels is not simply a matter of more Wattage…
You don’t need more wattage or know-how, all that’s needed is more antenna! I had no idea what I was doing when I hooked my Rangemaster into the grounding system of the pavilion about a decade ago, but achieved at least 5 miles of listenable range.. It wasn’t talent that accomplished that, it was my ignorance.January 5, 2019 at 2:12 pm #108541
We Are More Or Less Saying the Same Thing
R. Powers: “I don’t think I said or implied anything to say the future of Part 15 was “Home Radio”.”
No. You didn’t. I did.January 5, 2019 at 4:14 pm #108542
Yes, I realize that, but I thought you extrapolated that out of what I said..
No, I’m lying, I just misread your response the first time.
Ok, let’s talk about something else. Why is part15.org and the ALPB forums so extremely quiet lately? There’s fewer post going one in a month than there used to be in a single day.. and what happened to part15.us? Why does there seem to be thousands of old post missing here?, which explains why links to threads here from other sources (like the radiodiscussions forum for example) simply land on the main page here instead of the topic it was supposed to? What happened that led to the ALPB changing chairman 3 times in just a few months.. Is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit, and why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?
What the heck have I missed in the months I’d been gone?January 5, 2019 at 4:24 pm #108543
Oh I forgot one..
Why do I always have such a hard time getting a hold of your LPH episodes? You must move them around on a quarterly basis.January 5, 2019 at 9:47 pm #108547
You Asking Me?
The original part 15.us was attacked by hackers and crippled, so the owner Mr. Janze went to work repairing the damage and I think moved to a new server and came back as part15.org for reasons that I don’t know about, but I think now the original name part15.us also links here.
The last I heard all the original contents of part15.us exist but need to be manually sorted and returned to the new system, which is done by one or two people in their spare time.
The history of the ALPB would best be told by its present executors who know more about it.
The Low Power Hours have been off-line because the opening and closing credits are no longer valid. Maybe I can give you (Rich Powers) a private address so you can bring a pickup truck late at night… or, I mean, download them for yourself. I will look into it.
Also, during the summer I got pissed about the rise of fascism in America and went on a silent protest by withdrawing all my radio programs but that protest expired and I’ve been slow restoring service since no one seemed to miss it until now.
Tomatoes are good on whole-wheat with melted provolone cheese and no one knows whether they are a fruit or vegetable.
Birds follow and obey me day and night.January 6, 2019 at 1:02 am #108548ThelegacyParticipant
Total posts : 291
One of the reasons that people don’t post on these forms so much anymore is that there is a Great Divide in the belief system and pretty much a stalemate.
There are a few of us that believed that sense there is a possible death in the not-so-distant future of the am broadcast band if things don’t start to change and that now is the time to try and change some things that would allow some type of service between the powers of the Travelers information stations and what we use now called part 15 Broadcasting.
There is only so much that can be said about the present rules and what will never happen. Therefore just like the am broadcast band that is dying so too are the memberships and participation in these forms because no one seems to be willing to try and fight for any type of improvement to the Hobby.
However in other countries lots of improvements have been made. I just found out that New Zealand you know the country that allows one Watt on FM well now they’re hobby Broadcasting Service maybe going up to 5 Watts Plus and get this no license is required at least not in the same regulatory sense that we have here in the United States and guess what no planes of falling from the sky.
The Chicken Little scenario is only a ploy to keep individuals from ever being able to legally And I stress the word legally hit the airwaves with any kind of real audience. And whenever a success story is told about a legal transmitter getting out to miles it’s usually combated with a oh you must be a pirate type answer when Keith Hamilton of rangemaster that has put up on their website that it is more than possible to get a signal out to Miles and still be compliant under the rules that are already established.
I would never put up any sort of pictures of my radio station on any of these public forums because you have folks that do play both sides of the fence pretending to be your friend and waiting the snitch on you the first chance they get. That is to another reason people are keeping their mouth shut pictures off of these websites and being very vague about the radio station and maybe it’s best to keep your mouth shut about it as far as your setup if I do post a picture it would be so basic just a picture of the audio processor and how much modulation is going out. No picture of an antenna no picture of the property none of that just basic equipment tight pictures.January 6, 2019 at 5:51 am #108551
I’m lightly familiar with unlicensed radio in New Zealand, they can operate in a manner with FM very similar to the method which licensed TIS originally were permitted in AM, in that they were not permitted to in operate within the broadcast bands itself, but only just above or below it, yet still within the capabilities of most standard radios to receive it.
I haven’t heard anything about them going increasing the limit to five watts, but don’t really follow it closely, but the situation and culture between there and here are hardly comparable. For starters, New Zealand is very tiny, the entire country is about the size of Colorado and has less people in it… and the airwaves probably aren’t already over saturated with licensed broadcasters like it is here. So comparing their regulations to ours is hardly a valid comparison or argument to allow the same here.
It just couldn’t work here, you just can’t give 5 watts of legal power to something like part15 and expect it won’t cause total pandemonium to the airwaves. The pirates have already done that, and you seem to be suggesting that increasing part 15 limits would somehow be a solution since fewer people would have to resort to pirating.. I just don’t see the reasoning in that.
Part 15 is just what it is, it’s free, largely unregulated, and we actually are provided more leeway than the rules have ever actually permitted. You want more power, get a licensed, you say it’s too hard, well it seems like every time I turn around I hear about another former part 15 broadcaster has upgraded to a licensed LPFM station, so it appears evident it is accomplishable with some genuine effort — Oh, but like most everything else ni life, it’s not free.
As for not posting pictures of installations.. that’s understandable. I seriously doubt there have ever been many part15 installations that actually conformed to written rules. The truth of the matter, with AM anyway, is we operate through the door which Yellowstone opened 50 years ago with the creation of the outdoor whip and mast transmitters which has become the standard today. This has always been known to be non compliant with 15.219 yet openly and consistently permitted. Three times the problematic rule 15.219 has been up for elimination, and three times had been voted to allow it to remain.. Why?, because you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.
The largest and most predominate use of 15.219 has always been by national parks and recreation, and pictures of those installations are also far and few between, because none of them actually conform, never have, they need a ground. However.. they all generally conform to what has become known as “the spirit of part 15”, which basically means to limit it’s range to under a mile. It’s what has worked for the last 50 years and what works today.
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