Why Bother?

Why put no more than 250uv/m@3m on FM or 100mW into a 3m antenna on AM?  The chances of someone hearing it are small unless they know to tune and listen.  ...

Not all users of unlicensed transmit systems subject to FCC jurisdiction need, want, or expect them to "broadcast" to receivers/listeners much beyond the boundaries of their own physical, urban properties.

Current Part 15 AM/FM rules are amenable to this, but do NOT support consistent and useful reception of LEGAL, unlicensed AM transmit systems by consumer-level receivers located 4+ miles away from the transmit antenna -- regardless of the transmit antenna it uses.

I know what you mean, I like the lively debate, but I've read things on line that have me shaking my head sometimes, thinking how simple it was when I was starting out, getting kit transmitters from Radio stores, taking the time to build them and getting excited about going on the mic, and having something cool to show friends.

It was exciting and cool, you did what thousands of other kids were doing, and there were no thought police on your shoulder, just a few lines about using the antenna supplied with the kit. I never once felt fear when I was on the radio with a kit, it was fun. This is easy, people!

Ah, but rhetoric loves the gray areas like the interpretations of rules, gray areas are what keep the great traditions of talk radio rolling, the same unsolvable debates, like religion and politics and moral issues that fire people up and bring the opinions out every time.

It's the art of debate, opinions, just like any discussion of audio processing for radio I've ever seen, or even which kind of music, or band is the best, and the exact way to do a radio format.

I guess we all have plans, but here in Part 15 we're poverty stricken, looking for ways to improve range on our small signals, trying to make a difference, while others are trying to pile up even more rules on this tiny thing and worrying about it.

I agree, it's better to think before you fight, but then, debate is the will of the people, no matter how many weighty threads get crushed or moderated.

I've directed people who want to broadcast with a kit to the AM-1 by Ramsey, I think it's great for anyone who wants to get a start, you can build it in a few hours and it's not too costly. Ramsey's instructions really make it. It's the same with the FM-10, build that.

S___ disturbers pose as authoritative FCC rule enforcers by posting stern warnings about LEGAL and ILLEGAL operation but here is something important to keep in mind.

These people are imposters. They are not FCC qualified attorneys with expertise in FCC rules or communications law.

It is not known at this time why these negative agenda threaders post, but it seems to run contrary to the spirit of the Part 15 hobby.

... It is not known at this time why these negative agenda threaders post, but it seems to run contrary to the spirit of the Part 15 hobby.

Mr Blare's clip above appeals to those supporting (at least) hIs definition of "the spirit of the Part 15 hobby."

Does the FCC issue NOUOs based on that "spirit," or on reality?

You have to advertise.....put some signs up in your coverage area....community mailbox etc.

Tell your neighbours.

Mark

I have always felt that the agenda of this Forum is technical education and knowledge.  For some others, the agenda tends to be more political.

Knowledge of the rules is essential before doing any Part 15 broadcasting.  But endless debate is useless, since none of us (that I know of) are FCC inspectors, and they are the ones that interpet the rules and then make the call as to whether an installation is legal.  And debate tends to end up, like politics, in the mud.

So let the other guys worry about rule interpretations, pirates and the like.  We need to continue the work done by Tim in Bovey (real world experimentation with certified transmitters) or Rich (modelling of legal field strengths under various conditions).  And although I am sceptical, the work Jeff is doing with his new antenna.  I guess we will see, once he is ready to release more details on the design.  I think that is what is being said when people want to make the hobby (or business) more enjoyable and simpler.

I also know that I am getting extremely tired to seeing the acronym NOUO in almost every other post.  That just plays up on fear, and most whose true INTENT is to stay within the Part 15 rules will never, ever, even come close to getting one.

... I also know that I am getting extremely tired to seeing the acronym NOUO in almost every other post.  That just plays up on fear, and most whose true INTENT is to stay within the Part 15 rules will never, ever, even come close to getting one.

Does the "true INTENT" of those who for some reason or another actually are non-compliant with Part 15 excuse them from FCC actions when the FCC finds such unlicensed systems/operators to be non-compliant with Part 15?

Well Rich, you won't like my answer to your rhetorical question.  But the answer is "yes".  As someone who's been in commercial broadcasting for more years than a calculator can handle... and has had several FCC inspections of my facilities, the answer remains "yes".  Even the hardest-butt FCC inspectors I have encountered over the past four decades have been reasonable.  Unless you are rubbing the rules in their face, they will work with you if you appear to have the best of intentions.

Rich, I am so sorry that someone with your apparent knowledge and qualifications can't find something more constructive to do than pick on well-intentioned hobbyists.  Are you aware that this is not a pirate site?

I say the FCC gives NOUO's in the Spirit. The spirit of money, greed, to get the bribe offer from whatever lobbyist group totally Against the Spirit of the Radio hobby. Most NOUO's are Complaint Driven. For example one poster in the C. Crane FM2 transmitter review was P'd off that these things exist. He talked about Interference. Hmmm wonder where he was coming from?  Give us 87.9 Mhz (not gray area) and you would not have any. Many folks even the ones who want to house cast complain about lack of range.  Help me petition the FCC and you would have Range. In the early days when I was a kid (and young adult) way before facebook, Myspace and all the social media giant web sites. When people actually cared to reach out to a neighbor and lend a hand. Many youngsters like myself bought transmitters from electronics suppliers and yes mine went OUT!!! This was way before the movie Pirate Radio. Many neighbors listened to my station before we knew what a NOUO was or even feared one. Many gave me pointers on how to improve my skills from remembering not to breathe so hard into the mic to remembering to announce the time once and awhile. Mom and Dad even listened to me while they were on their way to the city till the signal faded out 3 miles away (yea yea call me Pirate). No one gave a care so much as to call the FCC, yell at me because my signal was not 15:239 ya da ya da go go goo goo BS. Some folks just don't get it. You want change you have to forge ahead just like any other American who fought for the right.  Now I'm not asking for 50 Watts here or even more than 1 Watt on FM.  Now we're talking about AM and what can be done with the resources that we do have which is 100 mW into a 3 meter antenna. Some can and have shown they can get out 4.5 miles of usable signal with that. Yet some folks say NOT TRUE. Some already want to wave the PIRATE FLAG. I just laugh and keep going. While we're at it there is a person who I won't name that may have got the very supplier of a very well known part 15 AM transmitter in gobs of trouble. It may flush your entire hobby down the toilet if that man gets arrested for selling a transmitter/ATU system together as a certified bundle and lying in an official government document.  Way to go kill that part 15 hobby broadcaster! All this about use a Certified transmitter. Then there was Certified Transmitter don't mean squat. People you just don't get it the TROLLS are killing your hobby right before your eyes. And yet the bickering keeps going. Its just what the anti Hobby Broadcaster's want they want you to turn each other in because your jealous that one guy got out better than you. You don't need the FCC or some anti part 15 organization to kill your hobby, your doing a damn good job of it yourselves. The trolls are screaming kudos to you all. Its just like the movie Wag The Dog where as the president used other forms to draw away the attention of an un witty nation where as people had their head in the sand and a real threat was breaking out. GUESS WHAT it really happened.  It was called 911. Now we have it in hobby Radio where as we fight among the rest of the hobbyists when we have those ready to squash you like a cockroach. Then you have me and Station8 who are working hard to help you all and what do we all get? Grief. We do what we do because we see things not all dark and dismal and if we work together we could get a petition together and make the change. But I guess its easier to whine or sit back and let someone else do the heavy lifting. I don't believe some of you with a complete studio in your room intend to go 150 feet. Lie to yourselves all you want. The saying goes you can't con a con. If you expect me to believe that then I have a mansion in Beverly Hills and ocean front property in Arizona. And if your nice to me I'll throw the golden gate in FREE.  Sorry to be so negative and piss in your cerial.  I'm tired of all the hog wash.  The getting threads locked when I gave you one very helpful way to have an elevated install.  This engineer has helped other part 15 stations make billboard installs and had inspectors watch them.  Its legal and the FCC can't get around their own Federial Laws.  Yes I gave you a loop hole and you all missed your chance.  Me I press on and know what can be done.  I'm not stupid nor will I sit back and play Radio to the house flies.  I wish you all well.  Peace.

You're off track on so many levels and obviously just don't understand. The FCC isn't your enemy.  With that attitude, you are.  Why would the FCC even listen to you?

You talk about helping you and yet I've seen nothing tangible to help. No documents, no petition. I've seen plenty of work from other sources, but from you (who claims ownership of this initiative), nothing.

Before you ask for support for something, that something needs to exist.

I get that there is not a document that I have wrote. I'd need someone who is good at constructing a legal document such as a petition. We have seen some examples of one. I think Carl has shown interest in the FM Initiative But every time we even get started on talking about getting one done it sort of falls flat. I've not given up on the idea. And once I get a few good Pro FM folks there will be one. But they have to honestly be pro FM. I'm not saying we should not have an AM petition as one already existed. Yes I too feel the same way Why bother at times because there just in my opinion does not seem to be hard enough interest and sheer determination for a dead set pro FM movement. Knowing about the anti hobby FM's out there it will be hard I know. The closest thing we have and we can bite on this one and do something with it and that is the planned proposal for the frequencies that had 87.7 and 87.9 in them as a proposal. Plus the talk about expanded FM 76-108 Mhz. It was so AM folks can have their FM translators. At one time it looked as though the FCC wanted to acknowledge part 15 and give us more power. There has been some areas to strike and do so while the iron is hot. I did talk to Brian of Whole House FM transmitter. I got interest there. There has been some possible areas again we could have used to do this. There was some opportunity to strike while the iron was hot. I also am dealing with a very sick wife. So the FM Initiative no matter how bad I want this can't be my #1 priority when I have personal family issues to deal with. Its not because I don't want to try believe me. To construct this would take hours of work and rebuttals all the way to China. One has to work all of it out it can be done but not by one person. It would have to be a group of die hard pro FM users. After that we could go for AM. It goes back to the fact that the airwaves were supposed to be shared with the people. Its why you have Ham Radio. It is not for corporate. Anyone can study and take their test and work hard and get a Ham license. But for FM you can't simply study a Dick Bash Book and get your license. Honestly I'm not trying to be all up in anyone's face. I'm just a person who see's things for what they are and call a spade a spade. Like I say I wish everyone well here and yes I do see issues. Good Luck.

This is just not helpful. You have been asked to not bash groups or individuals, yet you persist. You have been asked to not publicly discuss moderator action, yet you persist. You tell stories about your obviously illegal radio activity while knowing that this site does not promote such activity, yet you persist. You keep agitating for some nebulous petition to the FCC yet you do not take the initiative and write one.

You make assertions and allegations which can only be read as innuendo and hearsay.

I am here to support those who want to use Part 15 transmitters legally by sharing what I know about the technology and the rules. Like it or not, knowledge of the rules is necessary if you are serious about taking advantage of this hobby and discussion of same is appropriate, but proposing bending these rules and inventing unsubstantiated loopholes is not.

I believe your frustration and anger is best vented somewhere else.

Neil

One positive thing that just happened was my idea of a transmitter that scans for blank frequencies and or requires a database check.  Someone has read and takin my idea and has made head way to use it.  That was a positive move on my behalf as well as the ALPB.  Lets get back to positive moves like this that can help us as a whole.  If i can think of more i will surely share with all of you.  Peace to all.  Have a blessed Hobby.

I'm sure you know I have been on some of those “other” sites. However I do agree not to mention anything like that on part 15 dot us. As for pushing for the FM Initiative I've decided also to push for it on those sites as those folks may be more interested in getting 1 Watt and under legal. I'm not going for massive amounts 7 Watts, 50 Watts but I just feel like some have pointed out I may get more accomplished on those “other sites”. Its not I don't like this site and I'll try and keep things very basic here 15:209, 15:219 and 15:239 not discussing anything of improving power in any way. I will withdraw any of my opinions I have (if you need to know google Thelegacy, The Legacy or listen to my shows because I do discuss what I really think of hobby Radio and where it is headed). I'll talk about Radio Automation, sound quality, Internet Radio, certified FM and AM transmitters on this site and refrain from any opinions I may have about why we are where we are here again those who have followed me should know me. For the folks who have been talking to me privately about the FM Initiative we can do that and or talk on the pass coded section of the Teamspeak server. Maybe start a Pro FM web site. I won't be a person detrimental to the extinction of the ALPB or this web site because of my opinions. Sorry for any headache I've caused since June 5^th 2015 here on part 15 dot us and now I'll just sit quiet and wait. But those who I've talked to we'll keep pressing privately to get something done. Want to contact me text or call my Rockline. If your outside the USA Download TextMe for the Android. I keep my smartphone near me at all times. We will make the change. Have fun and really and truly mean this when I say have a blessed Hobby and a blessed day. Let the lord love you all. No hurt feelings here. Keep the faith and don't give up.