is what Part15.us is all about.
Everyone is entitled to their personal opinions re the Part 15 rules. But they ARE the rules. This website does not condone illegal operation of any kind, nor does it condone posts encouraging others to illegally operate.
Please bring the thread back on topic.
I'm located in Canada, so our rules are slightly different than the U.S. Our unlicensed rules are split up into broadcasting (BETS-1) and everything else (RSS210). Broadcasting is defined as a transmission to the general public.
BETS-1 FM gives us more field strength than Part15.239, but it doesn't make all that much difference in typical locations to typical radios (maybe a couple of hundred meters, as opposed to several hundred feet). RSS210 FM is essentially identical to Part15.239.
Our AM rules are even more of a dog's breakfast. BETS-1 only specifies a field strength maximum - 250uv/m at 30 meters, which is pretty useless. For broadcasting, Part15.219 is far superior. RSS210, like FM, is essentially identical to Part15.219, but again, it's not intended for broadcasting.
And to make matters worse, if you're broadcasting we have to use an Industry Canada BETS certified transmitter - no kits, no compliant devices. There are none for AM. All current Industry Canada certified transmitters are certified under RSS210 (which, again, we're not supposed to broadcast with).
So here, it's really only legal to broadcast (unlicensed) on FM, using transmitters such as the Decade MS-100, or the CM-10.
Are the rules silly. Of course. At least those in the U.S. are relatively consistent (Canada breaks theirs up into broadcast and non broadcast due to the existence of the CRTC, which is the broadcasting content regulation agency).
But they're there for a purpose. To prevent interference to existing licensed stations, or stations that may be given a license in the future, because the allowable field strengths are so low the're almost guaranteed not to interfere.
Saying that it's OK to go outside the rules, as long as you don't generate interference, doesn't take into consideration that the FCC, or Industry Canada, may, at their discretion, license stations for the frequency that you're using, expecting no one there (except for, of course legal Part 15 or BETS-1/RSS210 operators).
I would certainy like to see unlicensed operators be given more latitude in the rules. But the only way that I see it happening, given the current situtation of already overcrowded broadcast bands, is to use alternate frequencies.
And, in fact, the proposed Whitespace frequencies, along with the proposed rules, are ideal.
You'd have to use a certified transmitter, because these transmitters are expected to automatically check national databases for nearby licensed users, and adjust output power accordingly to minimize, if not eliminate, potential interference. But the proposed maximum power output is 1 watt, certainly more than enough to satisfy hobbyists, or community broadcasters. It would be a win win situation for us and the FCC.
The only downside is the lack of commonly available receivers to listen below 87.5Mhz. But I've always been a proponent of the philosophy - it you make it worthwhile, they will listen. Somehow. And if enough people listen, then entrepreneurs will start to build (or modify existing) radios so that more can listen. It's really just the standard chicken and egg problem - what comes first? You have to kickstart it somehow.
Good post! And there are(to add) if one was interested enough to get radios that have the 76-108 frequency range!
But the key is "interested enough"
Also to add...several hundred meters is a whole lot better than several hundred feet.
Mark
you know I find it funny that people won't go to an uncensored website like the one I've created so that we can discuss this type of thing without fear without ridicule and we can actually express our feelings for once. But for some unexplainable reason people are afraid to go to that particular website and it really makes me wonder what type of rumors got started to start the sort of fear.
that being said going back to the topic of white space transmitters in which scan for an open frequency. This was an idea of mine where the user could set their chosen frequency on the transmitter which will scan and tell you if that frequency is available or not. Let's say you want to transmit on 87.7 megahertz you should be able to choose that frequency and then the transmitter would check the database and do the scan and if it's okay it will go ahead and operate if not the display will Flash telling the user to pick a different frequency. I'm hoping that if the FCC allows this to pass that this is the type of transmitter that will start to be sold. I can tell you I would probably be the first one to buy one and try it because number one it would be certified and I wouldn't have to worry about the stupid thing causing interference. Number 2 being that it's legal you would get a warranty so if something goes wrong with the transmitter you can take it back. When you buy an illegal transmitter you don't get no warranty and if something goes wrong with it you're on your own. So in a sense it would be far better and I'm hoping that this does become a reality. If we all pushed for it I don't see why not because there are quite a few radios that can get down to at least 87.1 megahertz.
Because you don't like the rules...does NOT give you the OK to break them. I'm a rebel. It has been interesting.
I didn't know how far I could go with my opinions here. Today, I stay within the rules. I'm 61. Too old for fighting rules any more.
But Canada, Artisan! Wow! I would quit "broadcasting". I have other hobbies. The US seems to be fortunate. The U.K. can't even use their own SpitFire transmitter over there! What a shame.
Watching YouTube convinced me, there are people seriously broadcasting out there! 2 to 3 miles! Legally! I really didn't think that was possible. That Ground Lead Rule really discouraged me. The RangeMaster is severely crimped without a ground! Or?? Well, MY ideal setup would be a Billboard with a metal frame. Oops! That becomes the GROUND! AAARGH!
Car Dealerships got 2+ miles with that, but now...KENC shows us, they don't look kindly on that. So, we mount the thing on the ground with 20 foot buried radials. There! A lot of us don't have the facilities to do that.
Legacy said:
"You know I find it funny that people won't go to an uncensored website like the one I've created..."
Forgive me Legacy, could you refresh my memory? Link?
"...so that we can discuss this type of thing without fear, without ridicule and we can actually express our feelings for once. But for some unexplainable reason people are afraid to go to that particular website..."
I don't feel ridiculed by Artisan. This site forbids that kinda stuff for good reason. There is already a site or two where we can talk "freely", if that is necessary.
But there are Agents reading these sites as well! As I said there are people willing to NAIL you, if you give them the opportunity! Boasting one's activities HAS brought down folks before! I understand the fear...
OK, back to our regulary scheduled program...
Doug
I want to broadcast to my town in FM. It's about a mile wide, so 1/2 mile (2500 feet) in each direction.
People talk about wanting 1 watt. I'd be happy with half a watt or less, just to cover the town. I'd like a community radio for ALL towns to happen. Even in my area (NYC) there are (as of last count) five open stations to use. So why can't the FCC create a community low-low-power license?
I just don't understand the reasoning behind not allowing it, or why the FCC is too stubborn to even talk about it. LPFM is far, far too much power for what I want to do.
Plus I think there are just plain prix out there that would turn in a station, because they ain't followin' the freakin' rules! Rules Enforcers. "You follow the damn rules or I'll SMACK ya!" I absolutely detest people like that.
Doug,
I saw someone on "another site" who said they were going to do just that. I rolled my eyes hard. I get it-rules are rules, but in this case, nobody's getting hurt. Just leave it alone.
The US is fortunate
Only because you can use a transmitter that just meets the rules and use kits even if it doesn't have a certificate. But even in the USA, going by the book, the Spitfire in built form is not usable because it was imported and not authorized to be used in the country...same as Canada.
Any transmitter CAN be used here(Canada) if you get the certificate of approval.
Fortunately we have FM here and Decade transmitters which are approved for RSS-210, BETS-1 and RSS-123 and, as Artisan stated we can go several hundred meters as opposed to several hundred feet.
But this thing with "broadcasting" and not broadcasting is what really sucks!, and the fact we can't use a transmitter that is "meeting the rules"
I actually called Industry Canada and got a call back from a person very familiar with the transmitters and what's what and asked about the Procaster in particular and was told that it would be up to the on site agent as to whether you are broadcasting or not but in that paticular case the transmitter is certified to be used with the indoor part for audio and power and the transmitter which is mounted outside and if it's being used as it was certified to be used with the outdoor operation it would be not likely an agent would say you can't use it.
Transmitters like the FM wholehouse for example certified under RSS-210 were intended for indoor personal use and if you have it outside on the roof or something an agent could say you are "broadcasting" and you can't use it like this.
If the transmitter has the BETS approval you can use it anywhere as long as it's not causing interference. As Michael at Decade told me you can set up the MS-100 in the "middle of the street" and broadcast!
So yes, a lot of the rules are crazy but Canada is better off than a whole lot of other countries and as was pointed out the Spitfire can't even be used in the UK where it's made!
Mark
The link is http://the-initiative.boards.net as you clearly see in my signature. We talk about petition writing,narcs, other countries where hobby Broadcasting has worked, range, NOUO actitity and sensitive passcoded stuff. Doug Ill give you the pass message me there. No need to be scared to have a VOICE!
Donald Trump has people protest against him BUT didn't VOTE! We have no room to complain when sitting in the arm chair.
Ill not say too much except many are on the same page but FEAR THE UNKNOWN. It's the propaganda machine.
"I just don't understand the reasoning behind not allowing it, or why the FCC is too stubborn to even talk about it. LPFM is far, far too much power for what I want to do."
I think the reasoning was, don't quote me on this, that extreme low power was worthless and useless to licensed broadcasters. Hence the removal of the 10 watt LPFM service. IIRC the LP10 service showed broadcasters how utterly useless VHF can be without enough power, citing poor building penetration amongst other issues. VHF is an odd duck, as most radio bands are, and low power only amplifies the shortfalls of VHF propagation.
AM is better suited for low power applications but the noise floor causes a lot of problems.
"AM is better suited for low power applications but the noise floor causes a lot of problems."
Also AM can't penetrate buildings likw FM can
Mark
one of the biggest Follies of the FCC was to get rid of the 10 Watt LPFM service. WOCR in Olivet Michigan did quite well with 10 watts as I have mentioned before. The real issue was that FM transmitters were getting cheaper right now one could get a 10 watt transmitter fairly cheap and set it up so if you could get licensed for it it would cost you far less than a 100 aatt transmitter and of course and of course they knew this. It was simply a way to make it so that individuals could not possibly legally broadcast.
"The real issue was that FM transmitters were getting cheaper right now one could get a 10 watt transmitter fairly cheap and set it up so if you could get licensed for it it would cost you far less than a 100 aatt transmitter and of course and of course they knew this. It was simply a way to make it so that individuals could not possibly legally broadcast."
It wouldn't necessarily be cheaper to have a 10 watt license versus 100 watts. LPFM has to use specially certified equipment ruling out any affordable transmitters, also despite the license being 10 watts you would need far more than that to get 10 watts out of the antenna. For example, the FM translator I work on is licensed for 250 watts but pumps out 732 watts due to line loss. The LPFM stations likely all buy 250 watt or higher units, I'm not personally aware of any 100 watt transmitters that are LPFM capable though I'm sure one exists. From what I heard in my radio circles the LP10s had a very hard time (well actually the word is LPFM as a whole has had a hard time staying afloat).
"Also AM can't penetrate buildings like FM can"
Good point, its easy to forget that when the part 15 is screaming just outside the window. AM has a hard time punching through most structures, especially concrete. High Powered FM doesn't seem to struggle too much, the lower powered stations definitely have problems though. For example, the FM translator is unlistenable in the city library that is only a few miles away from the tower.
When driving under a bridge you loose your AM station under it but not an FM station. That translater station must be really low power to loose it in the library not to far away.
Another downside to part 15 AM. The 1-2 mile ranges some can get is OUTSIDE only to a car radio! It wouldn't get you into the building accross the street where FM will....especially BETS-1 here in Canada.
Mark