It's pretty easy to get caught up in emotions and defending positions when others criticize you with their personal opinions.
First of all, facts are a different story. I always welcome facts, no matter how inconvenient they may be. For an example of a factual post, read Radio8z's one earlier in this thread.
But it's overall much smarter just to ignore personal opinions (Mighty alluded to that).
When you do happen to read a personal opinion that is critical (Facebook is one particular example of where it happens a lot, probably the worst, but there are certainly others), it's helpful to remember a few things.
There are a lot of people 'out there' with agendas. On the Part 15 Facebook page there are some that make a living selling sketchy transmitters and antennas. So if they attack you for talking about the rules, why should you care?
There are those that use 'experience' in justifying their personal opinions. Just because you have a lot of experience in a given field doesn't necessarily mean it's relevant experience, or even good experience. In the computer field, which is where I have spent my professional career (software, hardware & networking), there are those who have 30-40 years of true experience in different and exciting areas, and then there are those who have 1 year of experience 30-40 times. Big difference. You can usually tell who the latter people are.
Then here are those that use professional designations, such as 'engineer' to justify blanket personal opinions. Just because you have that professional designation, such as engineer, doesn't necessarily mean that you are a good engineer. Again, in my experience, some of the most incompetent people I had the misfortune to deal with in the computer industry were engineers (but not the only ones, for sure). Some of the most creative, knowledgeable and intelligent people originally came from other walks of life and had absolutely no designation at all. Of course, some were engineers too. It all depends on the individual. And again, you can usually tell.
Finally, it's been my experience that the most knowledgeable people, those that you can learn from, are those that also understand that there's so much more to learn. They don't hold fixed opinions, and are willing to listen to anyone and everyone. They don't call others incompetent, as they realize that nuggets of fact and knowledge can come from anywhere. There are a lot of those kinds of people here - the cream of the crop in this hobby/business, so to speak.
There are also some elsewhere, to be fair. You just need to know who they are, and ignore the rest (because at the end of the day, what they think doesn't really matter, nor justify the expenditure of emotion and time railing against them).
"But it's overall much smarter just to ignore personal opinions (Mighty alluded to that)."
This is the biggest thing right here. Too often people get hung up on personal opinions, add the internet to the mix and things get nasty quickly which gets us nowhere. I myself have been guilty of this lately (embarrassingly so).
Quite often people confuse personal opinions with facts, but that's a topic for another day.
What bothers me is that one of our own is over there keeping the lies alive, when he knows damn well that nobody here is trying to do anything illegal.
yep, i noticed that too, but didn't want to be the first one to point it out.
Hello is anybody listening to me?
First, I am the first one at that site to mention using a part 73 transmitter instead of a part 15.
I get angry over this whole BS, because I am typo prone and have BIG FAT FINGERS that can't type for shiiiiit! But before anyone assumes I bought a part 73 transmitter with hopes of becoming a pirate, let me clear things up for you.
IT IS MY F*U*C*K*I*N*G MONEY, IF I WANT TO SPEND $25,000,000,000 FOR ANYTHING THAT IS MY DAMNED BUSINESS!!!!! TO BE TOLD I AM A LAWBREAKER BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD THE BEST QUALITY DEVICE OUT THERE, IS AN INSULT AND THOSE WHO ASSUME ARE TOTAL IDIOTS!!
I know my name is contantly being dragged in the mud by this poor excuse of a human being. Who will also say I speak with a guilty conscious, guilty of what?
Why would anyone who purchases $10.00 dollar a pound ham over the $0.99 stuff be called an incriminating name? Same with what electronics we buy. If I can afford the higher priced stuff, why would anyone instantly assume I bought it for the power output? Have you heard the vast majority of part 73 transmitter stations out there? The major reason their audio sounds so good is the transmitter's audio stages as well as the filtering. If a transmitter can put out 100,000 watts with a clean signal, imagine the quality at 250mv @ 3 meters. Sorry if I used the wrong microvolt abbreviation, you get the idea, I hope.
I personally think this person is the broadcast industrie's BIGGEST loser! Including both part 15 and part 73 and those who follow him are just a bunch of anti-everything, old foggies who have no life but to think they above everyone else.
Let them say what they want, those who have half a brain and a life know well enough when they see a school yard bully and go elsewhere.
Some kids who are abused in life, do so as adults and this is a classic case of just that.
Enough said.
Bruce.
Here is their response to the question "Where does it state you can't own a part 73 transmitter without a construction permit or modify it to meet part 15 rules?" Some of what he says makes some sense however if one had a Patomac the lack of shielding would have been detected, No? Anyways here is the response:
Some very important facts should be made clear for the uneducated or the unwitting who plan on venturing down the path of using a non-compliant device for alleged Part 15 operation:
1. Using one of those imported, poorly constructed transmitters is against the law according to the following regulations:
Title 47 C.F. R. Section 2.803(a)(1) of the regulations state: "Except as provided elsewhere in this section, no person shall sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease), or import, ship, or distribute for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease, any radio frequency device unless ... in the case of a device subject to certification (i.e., Part 15 transmitter), such device has been authorized by the Commission in accordance with the rules in this chapter and is properly identified and labeled as required by section 2.925 and other relevant sections in this chapter."
Title 47 C.F.R. Section 2.925(a)(1) of the Rules. Section 2.925(a)(1) state "... requires that each device covered under an equipment certification bear a nameplate or label listing the FCC Identifier, which consists of two elements, the grantee code and the equipment code and is preceded by the term FCC ID."
Title 47 C.F.R Section 302(a) of the regulations state "... No person shall manufacture, import, sell, offer for sale, or ship devices or home electronic equipment and systems, or use devices, which fail to comply with regulations promulgated pursuant to this section."
2. Neither those widely available imported transmitters, kit transmitters or transmitters certified for use under another radio service (i.e., 47 CFR Part 73 for licensed broadcast operation) are not certified for use under Part 15 operation, whether modified for “micro power” or not.
3. Unless someone has the sufficient knowledge for engineering a complex transmission system utilizing carrier current or radiating coax cable there’s a high probability that a novice will be unable to unequivocally prove their installation has met Part 15 regulations.
Those who believe that they can simply modify a high power transmitter to comply with Part 15 regulations may simply be fooling themselves. During the evaluation of the Decade MS-100 transmitter it was discovered that the test specimen was inadvertently shipped to the Canadian standard. It took upwards of an hour to recalibrate it as even when the RF power was substantially below 250µV/m @ 3 meters the stray RF coming from the unshielded transmitter exceeded that limit until the metal cover was re-attached. It is unknown if same model in the plastic case has the same melody or not as there was only one specimen available for testing.
Modifying a commercial transmitter may leave one open to other problems. Bypassing subsystems internal to the device may make the device prone to spurious signals which would have been properly filtered when operating intact and as designed. There may be the fact that regardless of how much the signal emanating from the device's output connector is attenuated that the device may still radiate a signal at a higher field strength than allowed under Part 15 due to shortcomings in shielding.
It can also be said that modifying a Part 15 certified transmitter, in general, may void its certification. An end user disassembling a manufactured, certified transmitter to modify the audio stages for improved modulation or audio fidelity may be commendable but, in the strictest sense, voids its certification. On the other hand, there’s no doubt that opening the same transmitter and increasing any RF output control past the device’s legal operation as defined in the applicable Part 15 regulations will hands-down void the certification.
There are certified Part 15 transmitters utilizing control adjustments for which the user in instructed to interact with as outlined in the device’s accompanying operating manual. This is a case where the operating manual is considered an integral part of the device’s certification. The supplied manuals instruct the operator on how to adjust the controls in question to obtain compliant operation within the purview of how that device was certified for Part 15 operation.
Honestly that doesn't look like a dig at anybody. Looks like all he said was the wrong transmitter in the wrong hands could be asking for trouble.
Looks to me to be a case of things being blown WAY out of proportion and context. (as per the usual anyway)
In all honesty, and IMHO a C Crane sounds better than 90% of commercial stations. I don't see much need for a pro-grade unit. This is America however and people can spend as they please.
Okay The legacy I am not going to copy and paste what you posted above.
First off, the transmitter I purchased was sold in the USA, NOT CHINA! It was also NEW, NOT USED or ABUSED.
The transmitter is also listed in several FCC data bases as the transmitter being used in the USA for LPFM stations.
Granted, the certification is NOT part 15, but part 73.
The RF output maximum power output is 25 Watts maximum.
The RF can be adjusted down to .0001, has a metal chassis NOT PLASTIC.
I DID NOT KEEP the transmitter, otherwise, you could ask me questions about how and what I did to make sure it was infact tested with an FIM41 or whatever the damned model number is for FM and that it was toned down for LEGAL part 15. Some bully talked me into NOT using it and away it went back to the USA based company.
Purpose of buying such a device was for the audio circuitry and filtering, not the RF power output. 25 watts was the lowest power output available for this model number.
I perfer to keep the specifics about this transmitter off of this site, including the company name. Reason? I do not feel that information best serves other part 15 enthusiasts.
I am sick of this guy thinking negative about anyone who does not kiss his buttocks, he is not always right and I bet, if done right, I could have proven even to him, my installation was right to the law. One will never know now, because they no longer sell that transmitter model number.
Bruce.
Its those reasons you listed yourself Bruce that leads me to believe he wasn't necessarily talking about you.
I think in this case atleast he was talking about overpowered transmitters in general.
mighty1650 Said:
Its those reasons you listed yourself Bruce that leads me to believe he wasn't necissarily talking about you.
I think in this case atleast he was talking about overpowered transmitters in general.
MrBruce Said:
Perhaps, but I do have a tropic over there that he flagged and I'll leave it at that. But it has to do with my asking about adding an attenuator to the antenna line. Hey if I didn't ask, how would I know? But, to be flagged with disclaimers and yadda yadda, was not called for.
Then there is finally the thread about "Hunting down a pirate" where he accused me of not complying from the beginning by purchasing a 25 watt transmitter and all the other threads he mentioned I created that made him think I was a pirate from the start, so you tell me?
I have that entire thread saved on my computer, don't need to log in to see it or share it. It was started by another member and it was focused on my radio station WXTZ 87.9 Norwich, being labled a "pirate station"
So I have proof what was said over there and what wasn't.
I told him the truth, I did NOT own a transmitter that put out illegal power outputs, I owned a Ramsey FM100 and a Chris Cuff AM C-quam stereo transmitter, no amps. used the included telescopic antenna screwed into the FM100s transmitter top cover. The FM100 was the USA version, not the export version. Also not to be confused with the FM100B.
Turthfully, the FM100 is not capable of transmitting below 88.1 or above 107.9, perhaps the issues were the use of 87.9MHz, but I personally did not operate a transmitter on 87.9MHz, I only provided the audio stream via the Internet. I am also not responsible for how anyone else uses or installs their transmitter. But, I was the one who got the blame and the public assault and humiliation.
Bruce.
It certainly has been an unfortunate situation, thanks for sharing your side.
For what is worth, the first post of this topic grabbed the wrong link.
This is the correct link:
Use of Non-Compliant Transmitters for Part 15 Operation
https://www.hobbybroadcaster.net/community/index.php?topic=3961.0
Point is, unless you do everything their way, or hang out here, you're open to being called names. Funny how discussion over there is about using several part 15 compliant transmitters to cover more ground, but even when you do, your classified as a pirate.
Just for the record, unmodified Decade MS100 transmitters were used for our radio network.
Interesting that we used what they often use and recommend over there, but we we're called pirates?
I guess that is what happpens when you are NOT an arse kisser.
Bruce.
One of the links he talks about using 7 Decade MS-100's and a microwave link. However looking at that link the actual frequency was 2.4 Ghz. And each transmitter went 250 feet. So 250X7+=1750 Ft. That would be great range and cover a lot of Deltaville. It probably would be a better signal too if you could position each transmitter so that as soon as one fades the other starts to come in. But the MS-100 transmitters are not cheap. Even if you got them for $100 each, that is $700. So you'd need a super fund raiser event to get that idea off the ground. Getting 7 different people to install both a transmitter and a receiver in their home won't be easy either. Now if the city funded the idea and you had your electrical lines on poles there could be a way to have 7 Decades put in waterproof cases connected to the receivers and then you'd have a great network. Still someone somewhere will call you a Pirate. If you look at Radio Sausalito they also tried this until Comcast Cable complained and even though they were running compliant part 15 FM transmitters they still had to take the FM's down and only use AM. So again there seems to be those who want to put a Kibosh to anything FM part 15 related. Now as far as I know Sausalito is a big city an this could be a reason for this. This still brings back the phrase I've said before. Even if your compliant in certain areas of the USA, you risk someone pi$$ing in your cereal. So if you operate on FM in a Metro area you still have a risk.
As far the part 73 transmitter, leakage, and making sure its shielded Yes I can see that being an issue. But if you have an exciter or transmitter that goes from 0-X watts and it truly starts at microwatts, you should still be able to get it down to the compliant levels. I don't know how the C. Crane transmitter's audio can compare to such a transmitter as your talking about $40-50 verses hundreds more. Plus wasn't Winter4w complaining about hum? I guarantee a good part 73 transmitter would have zero hum. That audio would sound so good your ears would bleed at the quality sound you'd get. I'd love to have had the same transmitter WIOT in Toledo or WRIF in Detroit had back in the day. That sound was something I'd love to get my station to sound like. Granted the software I helped Winston develop does have the Album Rock audiophile sound and it probably would even make a C. Crane sound better than it would without NextKast as this software was designed to do however there is a difference between a consumer grade $40-50 transmitter and a part 73 transmitters audio section. Plus a part 73 transmitter is really meant to run 24/7 365 and still be as stable as the day it was first fired up. You can see where those cheap $40-50 transmitters can often have faulty components that can make its signal or sound quality suffer. Now the Decade MS 100 and Broadcast Vision both look like nice units.
The main point is that part 73 certified transmitter I ordered WAS NOT A HOBBY TOY!!!
The second main point is I did not even attempt to hook up or operate this part 73 transmitter, back to the seller it went.
Perhaps if those who say they support the hobby had been a little more friendly, they may have helped me get that transmitter to comply with part 15.239, but instead, they choose to cast false accusations. Perhaps that is why people end up running illegal stations, it is sometimes less of a hassle just to hook it up and go and not have someone automatically cast false accusations and not help at all. Threatening people with FCC action while they are still trying to learn and need the education, is in my book, not the way to go about it.
I never went there as a pirate mascarading as a part 15 operater, like I was accused of, I went there to learn and odd as it may seem, I never operated anything out of my home or anyone else's that should have fallen under the name pirate. I, to the best of my abilty asked questions. If one fell under questionable circumstances, it was because I needed to ask to better understand what can and can't be done legally.
That's the only way one is going to learn isn't it? I also can't understand why anyone who hangs out here is constantly being called a pirate? I don't feel this site promotes such actions, I guess the real point is, if you're not there to learn, anything you do learn elsewhere is how to circumvent and operate a part 15 device illegally.
Who is to say they are 100% to the book? Love to check their so called compliant part 15 stations with my own FIM41 and FIM71, I might get a good laugh for the money spent.
Oh that's right, only ONE person in the whole world knows how to use one and that's not me....my bad!
Bruce.