Two quickie queries

http://logmein.com

FM doesn't get much range under Part 15 regs in the U.S. Regardless of power, you cannot be read at more than 250uV at 3 meters (10 ft). At 10mw, which is about right to meet the requirement with a non directional antenna, you can't expect more than 200-300 ft. at someone's average home stereo receiver.

A good car radio might do better, perhaps as much as 600 ft. Field strength is the only legal factor, so it's really all about the receiving equipment.

AM bcb will get much more range under Part 15.

Have a look at UltraVNC http://www.uvnc.com/ Its a remote access program and when installed the remote computer shows on you computer screen with total control of the remote computer with your keyboard and mouse.You can also transfer files with it to the remote computer. I use it all the time and have had no problems with it. Its also free.

I'm not going to touch the 10mw FM transmitter thing.

As for remote control, there are essentially two general directions you can try.

I purchased a commercial product, RCP, which allows me to control one PC (on which a server type program is running) with another (on which the controller is running). In its basic form - 1 server, 1 controller, this program is free. If you want to control more than 1 computer, then you have to buy a license (it's cheap). And this program is rock solid.

The 2nd approach is to use some sort of open source VNC server such as the previous poster suggested. There are lots of them - I've played around with RealVNC. The advantage of that is then you can use any number of freeware controlling programs on a lot of different types of devices, including tablets, smartphones etc. (and yes, computers) to control your server. Some of the tablet/phone apps come in basic form and then pay-for form - you'd have to decide if you need to run the controller on these devices, and what paying for it will give you.

I'm a little leery of freeware/open source programs unless I've thoroughly tested them offline before putting them into production. I know some people swear by them, but I've had rock solid platforms become unstable by adding these things. I come from a software development background, and know what goes into the testing of commercial software - and look what buggy messes even these things end up as! You don't really know what you're getting when you go the open source route.

Although there are exceptions, you usually get what you pay for.

The 10 mW figure is difficult to apply since this may or may not be the power delivered to the antenna load. If 10 mW is actually delivered to the antenna, even with a "low gain" or "no gain" antenna, it is probable that the U. S. FCC 250 uV/m at 3 m limit will be greatly exceeded.

The only guide we US hobbyists have short of doing actual field strength measurements is to use the FCC's statement from an information sheet which predicts a 200 foot range for a compliant FM system. Unfortunately, this non scientific estimate was made without discussion of the receiving equipment and the comments made in a post above state realistically what can be expected.

Neil

With relatively few problems (once in a great while), I've been using LogMeIn for about two years, 6-7 times/day everyday. I ran the station, including live reports and updates, switching playlists, etc. for 5 days from my sisters house in Florida, over 2600 miles (straight, not drive miles) away, using my netbook and Clear USB Modem, switching between Nicecast on the iMac studio computer in Friday Harbor, and B.U.T.T. running on the netbook (and back).

Once the buffer temporarily killed the signal on my STL computer, which is the feed for the TX on my boat, but I got that back right away as well (it also has LogMeIn aboard).

I load up a Zara playlist with generic file names. These are place holders in the playlist of the remote computer.

If a file is empty (zero time) or simply not present on the computer, Zara skips over it even though it's in the playlist.

From my local computer I put the desired file into the DropBox folder using one of the generic file names.

The file is updated at the remote computer and Zara plays it.

The transfer usually happens fairly quick, within a few minutes depending upon the file size and connection speed.

Now, it's not instataneous but works OK for me. I use this method to update the TIS AM station that I manage. This allows me to update messages from home.

"I am thinking of mounting a 10 milliwatt FM TX, on a mountain side antenna with no physical obstructions as far as the eye can see. How much range should I expect? On FM, heighth is everything. This thing'll be up roughly 150 feet. I have seen a few slide rule guys in here before postulating on these matters.

Ever walk into a crowded room and you get the feeling as if your in a room full of mirrors, seeing the same thing everywhere?

I'm gonna say this because it needs to be said....ENOUGH OF THE RULE BOOK QUOTING WHEN THAT IS NOT WHAT WAS ASKED FOR!!

Good lord one would think spilt milk is on the floor around here.

To the OP...please do not be intimidated or "silly scared" about the FM. Kits have been marketed and sold in the US for well over 3 decades that far FAR exceed the so called "nanowatt" power level shoved in everyone's faces by a "slide rule guy" that don't mean a hell of beans when it comes to the real world.

Now beef up some kit or tie in a power amp making the kit operate well outside of it's design parameters, well yes then you got a lot to worry about. But a kit, built at home and used that just so happens to have within it's design a power level of 25mW or 10mW or 1mW, doesn't matter. If these were not legal to use, they would NOT BE SOLD PERIOD!!!

I really wish the "slide rule" guys and "rule book thumpers" would go find something else to spread the word about besides having this holier than thou prospective.

I have a better idea...go preach to the maker and the slide rule enforcer, might have better luck..and while your at it, go after the licensed stations violating thou precious rules.

I have very little respect or recognition to entities licensed to violate and very little respect for authority that does the double faced two step wiggle wobble around the fact.

I have a suggestion to the forum admins, create a section of the forum exclusively reserved for rule preaching and teaching and let the intimidation occur in there, keeping it out of discussions not even asking about rules.

Or better yet, put a sticky at the beginning of EVERY thread and page a large font, underline and bold type the rules of Part 15. Save a lot of repetitive response even when those responses have nothing to do with the discussion!

RFB

Quote RFB "But a kit, built at home and used that just so happens to have within it's design a power level of 25mW or 10mW or 1mW, doesn't matter. If these were not legal to use, they would NOT BE SOLD PERIOD!!!"

Neil

I think there are 2 RFBs.

One, which I generally agree with, has talked in the past about how the installation of the transmitter is of paramount importance when determining the legality of your station. And even an FCC certified transmitter such as the Rangemaster can be installed so that it doesn't fit within the rules. It's the end results, not the actual power output or whatever, that matter.

The other RFB, who posted previously in this thread, I just don't understand.

It may be legal to sell something. It can be totally illegal to operate it, at least within the U.S. or Canada (or - ), as he himself has pointed out.

I imagine that it might be possible to throttle down a 10mw transmitter to be legal under Part 15 rules (i.e., using an antenna of a few inches, shielding it, etc.). But why bother when there are cheaper, legal alternatives? Given the information posted here, I somehow suspect that legality is not the primary issue.

Why not just go with a certified Part 15 AM transmitter up that high - you have the same issues to feed audio and power to it. You've got a ground (I'm assuming that the other antenna you're mounting it on is metal), and if there are no obstructions, you'll get great range, maybe as much as the lower powered FM transmitter. Plus you're legal, at least until an FCC inspector says otherwise. And he or she might not, as there are whip and grounded to the mast installations out there that have passed muster in the past.

Actually it was me, just looking at things from the other side of the fence while observing lack of official action towards a blatant violator who happens to have plenty of resources to solve problems, but continues to violate the rules and it's like the FCC does not care or does not wish to do anything about it.

I mean if the FCC is not going to police the big boys who are licensed to have those big toys, and only focus on little flea powered stations, what is the point in having faith that the system will change for the better, especially for us low power station owners who want more than just a few thousand square inches of coverage.

And no I'm not kidding about those kits. A very good example is Ramsey kits and their obvious power levels far exceeding what is called for in the rules. Yet these units are still being sold, still being marketed and still being used all over the place by thousands of happy and content owners. They ARE getting beyond 200 feet with a mere whip setup sitting on top of a book shelf inside the house.

Now if these things were soooo baaad to have and use, much less be marketing for over 15 years, then why are they still marketed and available for sale in the US? Why has the FCC not ordered them to discontinue the marketing of them in the US?

As far as "legality", I've just explained all that and why no one should hold a grudge or grievance or be stomping feet about the use of a Ramsey FM10C, that continues to be marketed and sold in the US and in use by thousands across the nation. In fact, isn't there a network of those FM10C units being operated by a popular station at the moment, along with various other transmitters no doubt puts out more than a fraction of a nanowatt.

I believe that if a person operates and installs their FM10C or FM100 or 100B or EDM or whatever, to the best of their ability to conform to the install instructions and using only those supplied parts and accessories, then go for it full speed ahead because the attention won't be towards the few extra milliwatts, it will be towards those blatant violators running 100's of watts filling the spectrum with junk while licensed stations continue to repeat violate rules which they are supposed to adhere to in order to retain those licenses.

There was a time when it was one of the top priority of licensed stations to adhere to the rules and set examples.

Granted a few remain today, but unfortunately those small numbers do not make up the whole, and it is that left over majority who continue to violate the rules and hold licenses while at the same time gripe and moan about a flea passing gass on the other side of town barely able to stink up a half mile.

I guess you could say the previous post and this one is from a prospective of intense frustration at a system that continues to rip itself apart by design while at the same time preaching law and order, yet allowing the order to disobey the law and get away with it while smiling and waving convincing everyone to do it their way..even though their way destroys ours, and our liberties and hopes for a brighter future.

To the OP...as long as you install that thing with no modification done to the unit itself or it's antenna, place it into a weather proof box and run audio and power up to it and broadcast away. I don't think that such a setup is any different from having an FM10C sitting on top of a 10 story building from one mounted up in a weather proof box 150 feet up on a tower.

Good luck!

RFB

RFB,

If your comment which I quoted was supposed to be sarcastic then I understand, but sarcasm doesn't print well and the intent is often missed.

It is indeed frustrating to be driving on a highway at the speed limit and be passed by those going 10 to 20 mph over and knowing that if I do it I MIGHT get a ticket. It's just not fair but, as you said, it is real life.

My earlier "rule book thumping" and "holier than thou" posting about the 200 foot limit was made as information for eddieb who might never have previously entered the "hall of mirrors" and who might not know this. I can appreciate your frustration about the referenced FCC selective enforcement of the rules and hope you will agree that this shouldn't prevent the exchange of cautionary information.

Neil

"I can appreciate your frustration about the referenced FCC selective enforcement of the rules and hope you will agree that this shouldn't prevent the exchange of cautionary information."

I do agree that passing along the heads up is worthy and quite valuable for those just starting out. I also want the whole story told and shown, which includes this free pass to violate rules with a license going on in recent years.

What's even more frustrating, is that right now I am looking at 5 excellent stations covering 5 different formats and 5 different demographics and genres and 3 of them are totally dark and the other two are barely running at all, and the excuse given on the STA form is "financial hardship" while owner goes on European tours and spends 40k on hair plugs.

The stations have no staff, no on air talent, no sales staff, no engineering, no news staff, no manager, no traffic personnel, no production staff...nothing! Heck, 4 of the station's STL's have been operating for 11 years without being properly licensed!! Submitted FCC documents falsified by outright lies made by the president of the stations, and it's been going on like this for years...and nothing has been done.

It's such a shame I almost shed a tear every time I walk into that building and see 5 dark studios only lit up by the backlight of the automation computer screens, no heat or air conditioning in the building at all, equipment running very hot and even shutting down due to getting too hot, oh and that's not even covering the transmitter sites with their non pressurized 3 inch feedlines, not even as much as dryers, leaking transmitter buildings, non working air circulation systems or air conditioning/heating, and the current two stations on air (KASS/KQLT) are sitting on Casper Mountain where it takes 45 minutes minimum to get up there in clear weather...both of those transmitters are currently operating without direct remote control whatsoever. Oh there is a Sine system up there, but it died on them 4 months after I was laid off and no one has fixed it since, nor will the owner spend the necessary funds to get the proper replacement parts so those two 100Kw ERP FM's have what is required by the FCC in respects to remote control of those transmitters.

Oh the list goes on and on and on! As does the frustration.

If my posts seemed a bit harsh, it was not meant towards anyone here. At the time of the post I had just finished a phone conversation with another fellow engineer who contracts for a few stations in Texas and he was describing to me how that owner is putting what it takes into the stations to make them right and make them operate within the rules and providing upkeep funding to keep up maintenance.

What do I get out of Mt. Mushroom's owner..."financial hardship" during a satellite phone call by him from some tour bus driving down a jungle passageway in Africa.

Sorry for any misunderstandings or hurt feelings folks. Was not my intention.

I am loosing the faith in the system which was supposed to uphold honesty and integrity. I have little reason to praise and promote such a system that issues licenses to violate the law. So with that in mind..who needs a license to violate when either way, violations is the name of the game, except the playing board has one winning side and one loosing side...guess which side we are on!!

RFB

I can understand the frustration of operating within the rules (I do) while other, more flagrant abuses are occurring and nothing is done about them.

All I can say is that I don't mind the rules. I'm located in a busy metropolitan area, with lots of radio stations, particularly on FM, within 100 km, located in both Canada and the U.S. There are virtually no open spaces on the dial to run a Part 15 station effectively, even given that in Canada we're allowed 4 times the field strength.

The availability of illegal transmitters (and the lack of knowledge of their operators) impacted me greatly when I first started up on Bowen Island. It seemed that there was always some yahoo on the frequency I diligently had scoped out, tromping over my signal with far more power than I had - in one case, you could hear them over half the island. And to make matters worse, they would often leave these things powered up with a carrier (no audio, just the carrier) for days at a time. I'm sure that they really didn't know what they were doing. Luckily there's quite an unofficial communications system on Bowen, and these guys would either eventually shut down, or move frequencies on the behest of others who wanted to listen to Bowen's tiny radio station (and I have to admit I was pretty vocal as well). I also suspect that at least once, they were compelled to do so by Industry Canada (a signal finding truck was there for several days).

I can imagine the chaos if Industry Canada (or the FCC) just threw up their arms and said to potential operators - OK boys (or girls), go to it! At least there are some deterrents in place now. Plus, you have to know what you're doing to operate legally and get any kind of range (i.e., listeners).

So, like I said, I don't mind the rules. It puts all of us on an equal playing field. Those other licensed stations that don't play by the rules are a separate problem that hopefully can be fixed with more attention placed on them.

RFB,

In response to your post I am loosing the faith in the system which was supposed to uphold honesty and integrity. I have little reason to praise and promote such a system that issues licenses to violate the law. So with that in mind..who needs a license to violate when either way, violations is the name of the game, except the playing board has one winning side and one loosing side...guess which side we are on!!

I usually avoid political post but on the above I have to agree. We see this in almost all forms of government. Money plays and the rest pays. My wife has some personal experience where political influence and money are used to suppress legislation which she is proposing.

Your post got me thinking about the real broadcast and transmitter engineers I have know over the past 40 plus years. The early ones were craftsmen who took pride in their work and station signals though no one but they knew the quality work put into this. The later ones were less educated, less experienced, less paid and less valued as equipment became more automated and logging rules were relaxed. Now stations around here have no technician on staff and contract out only when things get really bad. The trash signals on the broadcast bands are noticeable to an acute ear. I hear splatter from overmodulation, distorted audio, muffled audio, and weak signals when they should be strong.

I know of abandoned and non-functioning TIS stations.

I also know from postings here that there is a talent pool of program producers and transmitter technicians running part 15 stations and they should be set free to use signal strengths which would truly serve a community. We trust Amateur Radio operators to air signals without causing problems and I would support a similar system for hobby broadcasters. It is disappointing that the proposal a few years ago to allow more power for this got nowhere. Maybe a better approach would be to establish an operator licensing system modeled after ham radio or perhaps to allow anyone with an amateur radio license to use part of the AM band for hobby broadcasting. Good equipment operated by someone who knows what they are doing should not be a problem.

But, in the real world, there are other forces in play such as failing broadcasters who see suppressing new players as their only protection from failure when in my mind thier failure is their own fault and not that of others. And we have government which regulates for the sake of regulation sometimes without rational thought and thereby hindering progress.

Neil