Okay I did have a conversation with the station's Facebook page on Tuesday.
Here is that conversation (Note: I defend his right to use 87.9 and to broadcast, not to operate beyond current part 15 rule power limits):
ME
Hello, I am not a troll, nor am I FCC associated or anti-FM anything, but there is conversations in a facebook group about your station being on 87.9 FM which I have also used at one point for my station WXTZ 87.9 Norwich, but just a heads up, 87.9 MHz is not legal for FM Part 15 FM or any other type of broadcasting and could get you a visit from the FCC. Also you need to be careful if you use one FM transmitter and cover a block or more. Like you, my page mentioned a frequency, which was 87.9 FM I was being investegated and shut my station down. Although being a pirate is your business, transmitting on 87.9 MHz, although a very empty channel in the USA, will get you an FCC visit that much quicker. It is better to use a channel between 88.1 to 107.9 FM where there is a less of a chance some asshole will turn you in.
THEM
I am FCC compliant and I have a license which is on the website for verification but thanks anyways
ME
If you had an FCC license to operate a radio station on 87.9 FM you would be listed on the FCC web site, there ar eonly two licensed stations on 87.9 and they are on the west coast. Like I said I am not the one who will turn you in, but you might want to check out the comments that were made to the bottom of the page that your news article at this link> http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/news/cannaday-follows-dream-by-launching-radio-station/article_19242934-678e-566a-aa74-0833b51dcbbf.html
THEM
I'm all right, and I can consider your comments as harassment if I need to.
It's absolutely ridiculous help organizations, groups and individuals out there in this world try to tear apart and rundown a nonprofit organization that does good for a community that thousands of others enjoy having. Honestly, what benefit do you get out of trying to tear someone down after all the hard work that we are doing for our community and worldwide and also trying to grow/expand. That's what's wrong with this world, again, your messages could be considered harassment
ME
I am not harrasssing you, I am letting you know that people are making public comments that you are operating as an illegal pirate station, I am defending you not harrassing you
that is why I asked you to check out that last link I posted, in the comments section of that news article I defended you and argued for you against those who posted you are operating as a pirate radio station.
THEM
Okay
Thanks Bruce
we have received so much spam and marketing people who is trying to give comvience us to promote to their business and so on...just wish that people would get a life out there and do something better with their time instead of running nonprofit Organizations down to the ground. Thanks for the comments
ME
I to, operated a station on FM and understand your points, but because I too was harrassed I got off of 87.9 If you wish, to understand how much I understand you, please read this wikipedia page I created about WXTZ 87.9 Norwich, then you will understand how much I support you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXTZ_87.9_Norwich
THEM
Just a misunderstanding when I first read your message
ME
please read that wikipedia page it tells the whole story about my station, I was not FCC licensed then and I am not now either
THEM
Did you switch to a new FM Dial or shut off completely from FM?
By the way, the link did not work, can you repost?
ME
which link did not work? I am an Internet Radio Station now
Here is the link again read what happened to my station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXTZ_87.9_Norwich
THEM
Thank you, looks like the original link was broken but this one certainly works. I'll certainly look through it and read on it and get some ideas.
ME
trust me, I am like you, I provide for my community without asking for a dime. I am more careful with what i share on line now, but the FM dail in my area is congested beyond words because of my being in a tri-state area, FM channels are exhausted. No chance for a LPFM here unless I buy one.
THEM
I hear you on that. As far as our research to be for, is it still true that the FCC isn't taking any applications for LP FM channels?
Sorry for the spelling grammar, AutoCorrect is a pain sometimes.
ME
hi sorry for the delay we're working on moving the record library into new racks. There is currently no LPFM window period open at the current time, there was one at the end of 2014. Perhaps I need to direct you towards a part 15 web site, but please, if you join hobbybroadcater do NOT talk about anything that invloves illegal broadcasting, they are the site that slandered my station. Join the forums at http://www.part15.us I'll post another link also related to part 15 broadcasting.
also, if you get caught broadcasting illegally by the FCC they can prevent you from ever obtaining a valid FCC license. I personally don't care about that because I will never get a licensed station here, the FM dial here has no opened channels to add a new LPFM.
So there you have it. We have not spoken since.
Bruce.
OK. So he knows what he is doing and doesn't care about the rules (however wrong he or anybody else may think they are).
Not much point in taking this thread any further.
Well based on what I see and partially know right now, I do not think this person realizes that what he is doing is a violation.
Since my post above, I have just established yet more conversations with the station though the station facebook page.
The person is asking me questions that makes me think, although he did mention LPFM, I do not think he realizes that part 15 FM has restrictions that have to be adhered to. Could be a case of I seen a transmitter for FM on line and bought it and put together a little community radio station.
Person replying says they are moving off of 87.9 FM. They did not know that they can't transmit there, that's a start, now I need to point them to a part 15 website to learn about AM broadcasting.
To be continued...................
Bruce.
Latest update, the station has agreed to go off the air altogether.
Station said:
Bruce.
A mixed bag of messages there.
It's too bad that they're going off the air. It's also too bad that they didn't do their research before going on the air, and they're not admitting any fault about that.
You have to wonder about the motives of someone who starts accusing you of harassment when all you're doing is asking questions and attempting to help them. Not to mention stretching the truth at first about having a license. There ARE ways to do what they wanted to do legally, without a license - Timinbovey's station is an excellent example of that.
And it sounds like the only reason they're shutting down is financial.
[By the way, MrBruce, that was great work, getting in touch with them and offering an assist. I haven't heard back anything from them yet, and I suspect that I won't.]
They are pulling the on-line feed off of the Internet due to financial issues with keeping music licensing fees paid.
At least they did that, paid fees rather than just playing music and not paying for that right to do so.
I can understand the owner feeling like he was being harrassed, I mean who knows what other complaints he received and by whom. If it was a station engineer, trust me, it is in all likelyhood, that engineer was being an asshole about whatever he had to say to the owner.
I do not want anyone to jump on this guy based on my comments here, I am doing my best to word things correctly and fairly here.
I am not an idiot (not that anyone said I was),I can read between the lines, this person needs guidence.
I am going to recommend Part 15 AM and will try to get him to join the ALPB or this site for guidence, if he joins, let's be fair and guide him without prejudice and accusations.
Bruce.
Or you could have told him about the New Radio Revolution and our fight for Hobby Broadcasting and 87.7_87.9 Mhz.
And this goes to the broadcast engineers crying over 87.7-87.9 Mhz: At Least some people are trying their damndest not to interfere with you guys but yet in return you moan and cry and tried to Stamp Out hobby radio or anyone broadcasting on 87.7 or 87.9 megahertz period Well when people interfere with you don't cry because when someone is trying to do the right thing and not interfere they get stomped on. Truth of the matter is you don't want no competition I get that but truth of the matter also is that these transmitters are already out there they're not going anywhere and people will use them Point Blank and simple. Like it or not that's just the way it is. I for one am tired of people moaning and throwing fits and going after someone who is just simply wanted to have a good time in radio.
As for AM radio unless you live in an area where you're allowed to construct a 10-foot antenna in your yard it's not likely to happen. Your range is going to suck that is for sure I've done it I know all about it. Now if they were to allow say 10 watts am you might have something. But 100 milliwatts with a wire antenna indoors ain't going to get you anywhere. The lies must stop let's get on to something that's going to help somebody.
The operator said "I am FCC compliant and I have a license which is on the website for verification but thanks anyways".
I was just up on the webpage for The Point and saw nothing resembling a license. Did he specify what kind of license he had and how to find it?
and offered my engineering expertise and knowledge of the rules to help him setup a legal AM station.
@Darsen_the_third he has no licenses on his website that i could find.
This is a website that supports "
Unlicensed, legal, low-power radio broadcasting"
I have to commend those who have offered their expertise to this radio station so that they can broadcast legally (from MrBruce to Part 15 Engineer and there may be others). In my opinion, that is one of the reasons that this Forum exists, and certainly it's one of the reasons I'm here.
Regardless of how we each may feel towards the rules, they ARE the rules. The FCC enforces those rules, and those violating them risk huge fines and the loss of their equipment. I've seen the aguments (even on this thread) which imply that The Point isn't harming anyone and may indeed be helping. I have to disagree vehemently with that.
We all feel that licensed broadcasters and the public in general don't fully understand Part 15 broadcasting. We feel threatened when the FCC reaches out and gets others to assist them in the hunting down of rule violators. How can these relatively uninformed people understand the difference between legal, unlicensed broadcasters and pirates? Legal broadcasters may get caught up in the sweep. Etc. Etc.
Every individual that takes on the guise of a Part 15 broadcaster when they obviously aren't, intentional or otherwise, hurts legal operators, and furthers that myth that EVERY unlicensed broadcaster is a pirate. I, for one, don't want to be associated with an illegal operation. Particularly if I'm attempting to run a business.
Plus, there is absolutely NO WAY that the rules are going to be changed if the FCC and other interested parties such as licensed broadcasters actually feel that we're all pirates and that if they give us an inch, we'll take a mile. It doesn't matter what we feel, or that we won't - it matters how THEY perceive us. Perception is reality.
We have to show to the world that we are responsible for our actions. That we understand and attempt to stay within the rules. Such as obtaining an experimental license to gather facts. THEN, and only then, is there a chance that the authorities can be convinced to loosen the reins a little bit more.
Artisan hits the nail on the head as usual. Well said.
Thelegacy, I have not added new dialog to this thread, but I have mentioned that there are groups, such as your's, that are interested in petitioning the FCC for the legal use of 87.9 and 87.7 for (Part 15) low powered community broadcasting and increasing the maximum allowable RF power to the final stage or maximum allowable RF power to the antenna and less restrictions to the type of antenna that can be used.
Based on what I know from private conversations with the person replying on the station Facebook page, the transmitter is using an indoor, attached to the transmitter telescopic rod.
Maximum RF power output is belived to be 1 watt. However since we can't know for sure, that is what it sounds like based on what I know so far. Obviously, it would take an potomac FIM-71 or spectrum analyzer to know for sure.
I have however, stressed that regardless of what the actual RF power output is, being on 87.9 MHz at this point and time is illegal to use. That part does not require an FIM-71 or Spectrum Analyzer. So that would be the first thing that would need to be corrected, unfortunately, because just as he said, he was not interfering with a licensed radio station and I can believe that statement being true, based on my own personal use of 87.9 for WXTZ 87.9 Norwich. I witnessed NO interference to stations above 87.9 or below 87.9MHz.
I have not, at this point and time, logged into Facebook as of yet, so I will update things when I do.
I can also relate to ArtisanRadio's points made in post # 25.
Bruce.
ArtisanRadio Said in an earlier post here (post #11):
Pat 15 Engineer, you're right. Sometimes posts drop down and are hard to find, but that one has definitely disappeared. I wonder what the rationale for that decision was, as talk and even admissions of blatant pirate activity are rampant in that group. The only reason I participate is to attempt to provide some sort of counterpoint to those kinds of discussions.
MrBruce Says:
ArtisanRadio one good thing is that RECNET http://www.recnet.com/ owner Michelle Bradley is a memebr of that "Part 15 AM and FM Radio" Facebook group and posts some very informative information regarding legal part 15 operations. So based on that alone, that group is not all that bad.
Since some of you are not Facebook users, I am going to post the latest she posted to that group.
This is a copy and paste from the Facebook Group Part 15 AM and FM Radio
Credit goes to Michelle Bradley of RECNET.com
*warning -- long post*
Instead of responding to different posts on different threads, I am going to respond in one place here. I am not going to try to give you the complete lesson on Broadcasting 101 in this post but just some insights on the nature and a recent history of what is referred to here as "part 15" and especially as it related to FM.
Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations covers telecommunications (mainly the FCC). Part 15 of those rules covers "radio frequency devices". Subpart C covers "intentional radiators". Other subparts cover unintional radiators such as the RF that is put out be computers, microwave ovens and other items not intending to transmit a radio signal but do so by the nature of their components. Other subparts deal with many of the modern technoligies such as unlicensed national information infrastructure devices and the recently approved TV white space devices that permit the transmission of "wi-fi" on unused TV channels.
Subpart C covers a myriad of short range devices in the consumer and industrial fields including garage door openers, wireless alarm systems, RFID systems, toy walkie talkies, wireless speakers and many of the other goodies we enjoy these days. The low power devices that are intended for use within audio broadcast spectrum (525~1705 kHz and 88~108 MHz) are also in this subpart.
Because different parts of the world have different standards, it is very important that there is a system of lab certification of devices before they are mass marketed within the US market to assure that these devices operate on spectrum allocated for them in this country. This is currently a problem in Japan where American military forces are moving to bases in Okinawa, Yokosuka, etc. and bringing their American cordless phones. In Japan, the spectrum assigned to cordless phones is in a different place and American phones can cause interference. The same can go the other way. In Europe, hams do not have access to 440-450 yet hams in the Orlando area get interference from short range devices operating on 446 MHz as that is their FRS band. Virtually all radio frequency devices sold in the US are required to go thorugh some form of lab testing and device certification.
§15.209 of the rules gives the default radiation limits for various parts of the spectrum but may be overridden by other rules. For the band 88-216, the field strength is 150 uV/m (microvolts per meter) at 3 meters. §15.239 overrides the default in 88~108 with a limit of 250 uV/m at 3 meters. In order to get the boost allowed in §15.239, you must keep the signal within a 200 kHz bandwidth (hence broadcast bandwidth). Keep in mind that rules written for short range devices are written in field strength, not in power (watts). This is so the effective range of the device can be controlled. 1 watt with a narrow bandwidth can perform much better than 1 watt with a wider bandwidth.
Subpart C was rewritten in 1989. Prior to that rewriting, the predecessor rule to §15.239 required that short range intentional radiators on 88~108 (except for custom built telemetry devices used by educational institutions for experimentation) were required to have an attached microphone. It wasn't until 1989 that we had a device that can properly (and legally) carry some kind of fed audio (other than acoustically) on FM. I believe this was put in to expand the applications for FM band short range devices beyond that of "Mr. Microphone", a popular toy in the 1970s. The bottom line is that the FCC (and virtually every other nation in the world) regards short range devices for the 88~108 spectrum to be consumer products only and not intended for any kind of bona-fide broadcasting.
What if the FCC was to create some kind of a service on FM broadcast with a longer range either by license or rule? You will need to take into consideration that if they were, any devices that are marketed in the United States would have to undergo lab testing and certification. This lab testing is very expensive and to a manufacturer costs the same no matter whether you sell 1,000 units or a million units. This means for a service that has limited appeal, the certification process adds a significant cost per unit. This is why in the LPFM world, the costs of certified transmitters and certified EAS units are so expensive.
One of the other things you need to take into consideration is the availability of spectrum in the United States. The USA is truly where 88~108 MHz FM broadcasting was born and unlike other portions of the world, we used most of that spectrum from the get-go. This means that by the 1970s, FM was already crowded here compared with other parts of the world. In many parts of the world, where at the time, broadcasting was controlled by the government or a public broadcaster running under government charter (such as the BBC), there were fewer services and less of a demand for broadcasting services. In fact, not all of the 88~108 spectrum was allocated to broadcasting in many countries until recently. On a trip to the UK in 1987, I remember hearing land mobile services around 98 MHz. It's also important to realize that in the USA, we protect many of our FM stations to their 60 dBu contour where many places in the world protect out to 54 dBu which means that there is more specing between co-channel stations in many cases vs. the USA. Because of how crowded the entire band from 88~108 MHz is in the USA the entire time, it would be impossible under current circumstances to establish spot frequencies for low power broadcasting like what they have in New Zealand (where the spectrum was reallocated from other services). Channel 6 spectrum (82~88 MHz) at this time is not an option. That spectrum still belongs to television and while there is support to reallocate the spectrum to audio broadcasting, the FCC still wants to keep low band (54~88 MHz) spectrum for television while the rest of the world is abandoning this spectrum. Because we have more television services per area than other nations, we need all the spectrum we can to accommodate these stations.
The bottom line is that the FCC regards short range FM broadcast devices as merely toys and consumer convenience devices designed to be listened to solely by the same person that is doing the transmitting.
The AM Part 15 rules do support a form of "broadcasting" to persons other than the one doing the transmitting. Without going through the rulemaking history, I would guess that the roots of the modern day AM Part 15 rules go back to campus radio systems operated by students as part of an overall educational program.
A few related items I have promoted in the past include:
- The extension of the part 15 AM rules to include 1710 kHz.
- A reasonable increase of the AM power levels (and/or relief of some antenna restrictions), especially in the extended band 1605~1715 kHz.
- If the FM band is extended down to 82 (or 76 MHz), limiting operations on 87.5, 87.7 and 87.9 to lower powered stations (LPFM and below) to serve as a "guard band" between the legacy and extended FM bands and in some places can serve as a place for Part 15 broadcast-like oeprations.
To the FCC, the part 15 "broadcast" community really does not exist. It is a very small, insignificant number compared to the rest of industry. About 10 years ago, when a licensed low power AM service was being proposed, there was a request in the proposal that Part 15 stations be protected by any expansion of stations in the band. Since part 15 devices are authorized by rule and not license, there's no way of protecting these devices and the FCC had no definition of a "part 15 broadacst station" since they did not have to be licensed. REC's attempt to inventory part 15 stations in order to build a database to encourage protection was met with massive apprehension by the so-called Part 15 community and left many wondering if the stations were even operating legally.
It was easier back before the internet and more open trading to control low power devices in this country. This recent explosion of new illegal devices from the Chinese manufacturers is making it hard on the FCC to enforce, especially when these devices can be easily purchased on eBay and Amazon. Because of this imported junk, pirate busts are increasing to rates even higher than what we saw back in the post Telecom Act 90s when people like Stephen Dunifer were threatening to put 10,000 transmitters on the air. The Chinese invasion is creating problems to LPFM and full power stations and is putting uneeded attention on the legal Part 15ers out there.
More information about unlicensed devices can be found at:
Link: http://recnet.com/unlicensed
Bruce.
Yes, that was a good post.
You know, mention was made of the Mr. Microphone toy in post #28, I owned a few of those and still have several the original PC boards that were once housed in that plastic microphone case.
It is amazing how few parts make up this little device. Same with Radio Shack's Apollo FM91 FM wireless microphone 
I used that Apollo FM91 microphone back in the 1980s hooked up to an outdoor .64 Wave CB radio ground plain through RG-8 50 ohm coax and a 119 volt AC to 9 volt DC adaptor and placed it between two stereo speakers and had an on air station called WNOR 90.1 FM. The reason I did not hook any audio devices directly up to the transmitter's audio input and use the included electrec condensor microphone, was because wiring anything up to it, caused issues with the frequency changing on me. The tuner was a coil and slug deal, so drift was a very serious issue here, even without adding in various audio devices to the microphone's audio input stage. Of course I was also a MONO only station, no FM stereo and had a slight AC hum as well from poor filtering in the microphone's circuitry. Although adding an electrolytic capacitor to the DC output helped a little bit.
The over all distance was roughly about 2000 feet to a portable FM radio, but absolutely failed to enter any households past 200 feet or more. But I still ran it like a real radio station. I was my number 1 listener, besides the lady next door who had a crush on me LOL!
I suppose back then, I would have been considered a pirate, but for the 6 years I did it, no one complained and unlike today with the internet and the information available on it, there really was no way of knowing the FCC rules or getting a copy of them.
Also, note I used a .64 wave ground plane CB antenna as the transmission antenna, back then I knew nothing about wave-lengths, so I now look back and realize I used an antenna that was physically TOO LONG for 90.1 MHz. I have learned a lot since then, thanks to the Internet and forums like this one.
Bruce.