hey all, we're all on here for the same reason and that is to be legal while having an effective signal, or purposely ineffective if you have an overpowered chinese FM unit. so hey, if you have a legit question that involves a grey area, i suggest PMing one of the many knowledgeable people here. if you have your "play dumb" card aka you aren't a licenced radio operator, use it. it's like the youthful offender. a letter in the mail is usually the 1st offense and shutting down isn't scary if the local fcc field oraphice guy says you aren't compliant. at the end of the day we're talking milliwatts and unless you're in a concentrated metropolis like NYC or quincy MA, experiment. its fun. getting on here and splitting hairs over and over and over again (rich) is what gets grey areas closed. its better to have the slight chance of having to shrug your shoulders and pull the plug than to ruin it for people in other FCC jurisdictions. i'm an advocate of pushing boundaries as that is what this great nation was built off of, so these grey areas are our birthright as americans. keep this in mind before you question them in the open
OMG (claps hands) we have someone using his head. Thanks I have someone here on the same page. If you listen to my station you'll have my Rockline. You can call it and we can chat. Darn I was wondering if anyone other than the few I am close with is on the same page. Sometimes I wonder why even post stuff here like that anyway. After all it only draws the wrong attention. But then again pushing boundries is our birth right. Thanks for that good post dude. Keep Rocking.
I agree with keeping those comments off the Forum. What you do off it is your concern (or problem).
"so hey, if you have a legit question that involves a grey area, i suggest PMing one of the many knowledgeable people here."
I don't agree with this. Post your questions/concerns so we can all be part of the discussion, but don't be surprised if the comments you get don't agree with yours.
"if you have your "play dumb" card aka you aren't a licenced radio operator, use it. it's like the youthful offender."
I don't agree with this. One responsibility that comes with operating an unlicensed radio transmitter is to know the rules. This site does not promote ignorance of the rules though you may choose to do so on your own, but leave it at home and not here.
"getting on here and splitting hairs over and over and over again (rich) is what gets grey areas closed."
Agreed. So don't provoke such exchanges by posting about pushing the limits and then arguing with the replies you get. Most of us are here to help and don't appreciate the hair splitting which often comes with this.
"i'm an advocate of pushing boundaries"
Fine, but don't expect to freely use this forum for this purpose. We support understanding and following the rules and if you choose otherwise then do so on your own.
Neil
i try to stay legal as best i am able to with the limited test gear and the vast knowledge (between me and others) at my disposal, but simple fact without an FM FIM it is impossible to know if even a certified FM from a reputable company is putting out to 15.239 spec, on am compliance is fairly straight forward and easy to ascertain even for carrier current operations. but part 15 fm is another animal entirely. i know on AM i am compliant. on FM till i can acquire a calibrated second hand FIM-71 i'll never really know for sure.
I am trying to understand why all these threads about legality are not posted in the Legal Area of this site? And personally I agree with Neil that comments about grey areas and pushing limits are better served on pirate radio sites and there are many.
I'm sure you know I have been on some of those sites. However I do agree not to mention anything like that on part 15 dot us. As for pushing for the FM Initiative I've decided also to push for it on those sites as those folks may be more interested in getting 1 Watt and under legal. I'm not going for massive amounts but I just feel like some have pointed out I may get more accomplished on those “other sites”. Its not I don't like this site and I'll try and keep things very basic here 15:209, 15:219 and 15:239 not discussing anything of improving power in any way. I will withdraw any of my opinions I have (if you need to know google Thelegacy, The Legacy or listen to my shows because I do discuss what I really think of hobby Radio and where it is headed. I'll talk about Radio Automation, sound quality, Internet Radio on this site and refrain from any opinions I may have about why we are where we are here again those who have followed me should know me. For the folks who have been talking to me privately about the FM Initiative we can do that and or talk on the pass coded section of the Teamspeak server. I won't be a person detrimental to the extinction of the ALPB or this web site because of my opinions. Sorry for any headache I've caused since June 5th 2015 here on part 15 dot us and now I'll just sit quiet and wait. But those who I've talked to we'll keep pressing privately to get something done. Have fun and really and truly mean this when I say have a blessed Hobby. No hurt feelings here.
i built a PLLoppet that puts out 1/2 watt on 160M and x-band for the S&G. theres no post abt it here but i am better for having built it and tested it regardless. publicly feeling guilty because you turned your SSTRAN 5000 up to 400mw that one time is kinda servile in nature. general patton's 1st rule of engagement is to never ask permission. just appear. so if you're at least close to legal, i can assure you nothing serious will come of it. even if your long elevated ground is purely "accidental" and somehow you get 6 miles
Just talking about the FM rules...
The legal PART 15 output level to achieve 15.239 is around 18 nW.
The lowest FM power liscensed by the FCC is 1 Watt.
Therefore, and inarguably, there is a DARK AREA between 18 nW and 1 Watt THAT IS NOT REPRESENTED IN ANY FORM BY THE FCC.
Although the DARK AREA would not be a suitable subject for discussion here at part15(dot)us, neither is it "pirate" matter either, since the FCC does not maintain a set of rules for the DARK AREA.
A "pirate" is one who illegally transmits in LICENSED TERRITORY.
- Opinion from Tanscendental Court Judge Carl Blare
Sounds like a Good name for a Web site Carl. OK back to FM initiative. In assence that is what I would like to see is somewhere in the Dark Area become legal and yes I see your point about keeping it under a watt. I've always been an believer that it should be just shy of a watt. FYI no takers from the "Other Site" Think Free Radio. I thought there would be takers in droves. At least it shows that there are more folks interested. Well then I guess that was a lesson learned. I don't know why they would not want to join such an initiative but I suppose they feel why bother their already doing what they do.
Why not abolish the Dark Area by closing it up?
Oh no, I'm beginning to speak in questions in the manner of Member Rich. Why?
Perhaps the FM Initiative should seek a maximum FM power of .999 mW?
In reply to all posts here in this topic.
Listen, we all know and the FCC knows there are people in this country who like nothing better then to broadcast (at their expense) a radio service, that in some cases is not currently available in their local community.
I agree that not all market areas are consumed with greedy station owners that pipe in out of area programming that does it's service area no justice.
Now, being that we and the FCC know there is a problem in this country with what is commonly called "PIRATE RADIO" broadcasting and it isn't going to stop! We all know the FCC fines people BIG money for illegal broadcasting, yet, it DOES NOT STOP THE VIOLATORS from putting new stations on the air!!! They just keep coming back!
Now, if the FCC and those who condemn such action was to smarten up and change the rules, open up a new broadcast band where the average Joe can operate such a station legally, things would be a bit different.
I know many of you will argue with me, but that is good, debate is very important in my opinion and helps us think as a group of people, not a sole opinion.
Broadcasting, is an understandedly expensive hobby or business for anyone, transmitters, processing equipment, mixing equipment and music licensing is not cheap for anyone.
The major problem with interference on the radio bands in the USA is mostly caused by the purchase of unquailfied radio broadcast equipment, because that is the only equipment a potential unlicensed station can purchase.
The FCC should create a portion of the radio spectrum, that people like us can use and then allow certified equipment to be widely available to Americans that passes very strict guidelines preventing interference to other radio services.
That very same equipment will be auhorized to allow an ERP at 5 watts to the antenna and could be deemed experimental just as HAM RADIO operators are allowed certain allowences in their experimental radio bands.
The same can be done with services that a lot of you wish to provide your local areas. I am currently rambling off some ideas here, possiblilties that could be looked at. But we all know, that the current course the FCC is taking, isn't going to stop "PIRATE RADIO" operations, pirates have existed since the 1960's and they have blossumed in large numbers, not deminished and many are stuck using illegal transmitters that cause interference.
The commissioineer of the FCC thinks his plan is going to stop all actions of pirate radio activity, this just IS NOT going to happen and the FCC needs to realize this and rethink their plan of action.
Like it or not, they are best to look at creating a new radio service, one where those who are interested can openly speak of ideas and also perhaps experiment on air to see what best works for the better of all.
While we are limited to a few hundred feet on FM, there leaves no room for experimentation, that "gray area" is already boardered before you even start.
Why....why doesn't the FCC just open up a piece of spectrum below 50 MHz if nothing else? There is tons of unused frequncies below that piece of spectrum. While I am sure HAM radio operators should feel they have first dibs on that spectrum, I feel the solution to the on-going pirate radio operations would be less of a problem if the FCC wakes up and realizes, it's the only sensible solution they have and authorize it for our use.
They can play this pirate cat and mouse game at our tax dollars expense, but the real solution is to just authorize a new service allowing the current pirates to operate a legal licensed or authorized radio service. Prolem solved! It's a no brainer!
Bruce.
Perhaps the FM Initiative should seek a maximum FM power of .999 mW?
That would be OK now, as long as FCC §15.239 is met. Ditto even for 999 mW.
Thank you Rich for hinting out my misplaced decimal-point: "(.999 mW) would be OK now, as long as FCC §15.239 is met. Ditto even for 999 mW."
Of course I meant to say 999 mW, or perhaps 999.999 mW, just less than 1 Watt.
Anyway, let's go over this Initiative thing from a different point of view.
The "Initiaters" are hoping to reach listeners, and for the most part listeners live in houses. In average towns, houses are possibly 100-feet apart, and for every 100-feet you've got to crank a few more milliWatts. Things are different if you want to be heard across the street.
A lot of precious RF energy is lost crossing the street unless a car drives by and happens to tune in for 9-seconds until the signal fades.
In my neighborhood even reaching ten houses would be discouraged by the fact that the residents are all deaf from using power lawn equipment without hearing protection, like that guy yesterday who ran his leaf-blower for three straight hours.
The wives steer clear of lawn equipment but their vacuum cleaners, blenders and hair dryers wipe out most of their hearing, so they wouldn't enjoy the all Hawiiaiin Hulu Skirt Dance Format.
Using "community reports" in hopes of snagging an audience might work on Monday when you interupted the music to warn about "The giant sink hole in a parking lot in Tulsa," about 400-miles away. Your own community has no events whatsoever except the annual gay pride parade, but your station doesn't participate.
A strong emphasis on the suicide prevention hotline might pay off in the end.
Then there are "Dark Suckers." https://astro.uni-bonn.de/~dfischer/dark_sucker_2.html