Let HB Fade Away

I second that motion.

Mark

 I I think the problem with the hubby today is that more and more people seem to have closed minds. Back in the seventies and early eighties when as I was younger mess with these transmitters people have open minds about the whole idea. Now things are quite different that's why you see a difference on this site. To see anything else it would mean opening people's minds who are very closed and one-sided.

 another thing another thing I'm starting to see a separation between am operators and FM operators. Here is what I mean:

It has been my experience that some AM operators don't feel that people should even operate an FM transmitter. FM is a bad word in the part 15 AM community. Mention FM and see what happens you are quickly looked at as a bad individual. Then there are the FM folks who don't get along with AM folks. Some FM folks feel like they are always threatened by the folks that only go for AM. Some of their feelings may have some real Merit some might be paranoid but there is a separation. I bet in the future there will be part 15 am.Us and part 15 FM.u s part us as separate web sites because there is a gap that is starting to build and it's getting further and further apart. Just try and mention FM and see what happens.

FM is simply not, at this time, a practical choice for part 15 broadcasting if you're goal is to have people listening. Quite simply, a legal FM transmitter is going to go a couple hundred feet. Maybe more, if you're sitting in your car and it has a good radio, or you have a very good receiver, or perhaps a stereo system with a nice external antenna. For the general public, this is simply not realistic. And I know lots of FM proponents will shout about their great range, superior sound, etc. Instances of range beyond a couple hundred feet (obviously this number varies) will depend on probably 50 variables both at the transmitter site and the receiver site.   While even a medeocre AM setup will cover substantially more area than even the best (legal) FM installation.

Perhaps this may change someday if the FM proponents are successful in getting changes made to the Part 15 FM rules, or perhaps establishing an entirely new class for neighborhood FM broadcasting. And more power to them.

But as things are there is simply no logic behind the choice to go FM, unless you intend to broadcast to yourself and your next door neighbors.  That and the fact that probably 95% of the FM transmitters offered for sale online (where most people are going to buy one) are illegal, many extremely so, also hurts the pitch for FM. So far my rather extensive tests of certified FM transmitters sold are also well over the legal limit.  Couple that with the fact that a buyer of an FM transmitter, with very few exceptions, has to have faith that the sellers are really selling a legal unit because determining your own field strength requires equipment few have, and even fewer know how to operate. 

There's the issue with FM.  So when people jump down your throat that if you're on FM you're probably illegal, you probably are.  If you purchased any of 95% of the transmitters readily available.  So far the only legal one I've found is the C. Crane which was legal with room to spare, and a range of about 75 feet if I remember right. 

It's not that people don't like FM, it's that current FM rules make legal operation difficult, and with very limited range at that. 

You can be sure that should the rules change in the future, I'll certainly be adding FM to my operation.  If and when LEGAL operation gets me the same range as my legal AM.  I'll be a very old man if and when that happens.  By the time any sort of new rules get hashed out and go into effect, then makers ramp up to build them, and spend the $$ to get them certified and to market. 

There's always someone who says "no one listens to am anymore" They do when viable programming is offered. The full power I work for is a good example. My own part 15 is a good example. And far as I know, probably 99% of the FM radios out there also have AM on them. I would say more people would be likely to flip the radio to AM than they would be to go sit in the car, or buy a good stereo, or seek out a sensitive receiver, put up an antenna, etc to hear an FM Part 15 IF they're close enough. 

TIB

Let's keep this thread on track.

I do believe that personalities have no place here.

But I also believe that there is a place for criticism of actions and words, no matter where they come from.  Critical thought and questioning is an essential part of the scientific and engineering process.

Like them or not, HB is a strong voice in the Part 15 community, due to a large part in Bill DeFelice getting that voice 'out there'.  But if there are issues with that voice, in either its accuracy or bias, then they do need to be brought forward.

So, if there are questions regarding the accuracy of the results of the AM Transmitter Shootout, or the separate AMT5000 review, or the upcoming EDM review, then I believe that it is valid, and indeed essential, that they be discussed.  You can agree or disagree with the discussion, but everyone learns through the process, and hopefully similar issues can be avoided in the future.  And it doesn't diminish the initial results at all, but rather, enhances them.

Unfortunately, what often happens is that ego gets tied up in criticism, sometimes on both sides.  There is simply no place for ego in scientific and engineering discussion.

p.s.  For those who have looked upon the past here at Part15.us through rose colored glasses, you might want to go back and read some threads from 10 years ago.  In my opinion, things were far more acrimonious back then, with personal attacks within the Forum abounding.   That's not to say that things can't get even better today.

I'm still keeping my mind open about AM as I didn't like the audio quality or Range I get from the Talking House 5.0.

The Spitfire looks affordable so I may brake down and try Album Rock on 1630 KHZ with it.

I would much prefer broadcasting on FM if there were a legal way of equaling the potential range possible under .219 with AM - but it's impossible. That's why there are so many pirates.

As for the misconseption that no one listens to AM anymore, well that's just not true, although it may come to that with the AM stations now being able to simulcast on FM (which I still don't really understand what's going on with that), But I actually have always listened to AM quiet often, it's much more diverse, and has great talk radio, whereas the FM stations seem to be little more than glorified juke boxes .. I don't know, I guess I just like diversity in programming, and the AM stations seem more likely to provide that (oddly enough, when I was growing up it was just the opposite, with the AM stations that all sounded alike, and FM was the one with diversified programming!)

As for the rose colored glasses.. yeah, there was some big fusses and disagreements going on back then for a while, but it was for a limited point in time. Not just here but also at the now defunt Community Radio USA, and other forums participating with part 15. This happened particuarly around the time when the whole "ground lead" fiasco came into play, which ultimently resulted in the FCC cracking down on part15 broadcasters who had previously been succeeding with on up to up to 10 mile range for years on end. The ground lead became reinterprited to include the ground line, part15 billboards got discontinued, successfuls city installs went off air, as did churches, car lots, camp grounds, etc. all suffered, and there was a lot of hurt feelings and frustrations. But eventually everyone accepted the drastic downfall and began making do with what we had left to work with, and everyone in part 15 started working together again.   

In keeping with forum rules so this thread doesn't change direction I will start a new thread for my comment entitled FM

Mark

RichPowers, I just think that this is a hobby/business that inspires passion, which is a good thing.  Unfortunately,that passion can sometimes get out of control, which is not so good.

Internal volatility is the word that comes to mind when I think back on the contents of this Forum 5-10 years ago. As I recall, the disagreements were many and varied, from the aforementioned ground leads, to what is legal Part 15 FM, the FCC, alleged violations of licensed stations, etc. People threatening to leave, leaving, coming back, leaving again - it's all there is one goes back in time through the power of a search engine.

I think both sites, HB & Part15, have to take responsibility for the friction between them that exists today. I don't ever remember the sites actualy working together (and I go back a long way).  But I do know that the moderation was different (here and there) and there were a lot of common members.  That has gradually shifted - I'm not going to assign any blame, but now there are very few common members, and both site's moderation has also significantly changed as well.  It's also a fact that many former HB members that are no longer welcome over there have landed here.

As I stated previously, there is really no room for personalities at this website (I can't control what happens at HB or anywhere else).  But there is an absolute necessity for technical questions and criticism, no matter what the issue source, whether it be HB or Facebook, or missives from the FCC.  That's how everyone learns, whether they be experienced broadcast engineers, or newbies.

Some may not like the questioning or criticism, and that is their perogative - there's no rule that says that you have to agree with everything, read or even participate in every thread.

Just keep the rules of the Forum in mind.  No ad hominum attacks (i.e., no name calling).  Stay on topic.  Be factual.

RichPowers hit the nail on the head, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed. This isn't the Part15.us I remember either, sure the site had its moments but I certainly don't recall the level of hostilities that are present now. 

Artisan I seem to recall when HB first launched the sites coexisted quite well, never collaborating but not fighting either. I'm not entirely sure when the bitterness started rushing in, the sites had many of the same members and both sites were very active. I took a break in 2012 and when I came back everything had changed. (I think KENC was when things started to unravel though, 2011?)

I'll just leave it that I have a slightly different perspective on the way things were.

I do think that individuals on both sites need to start working towards coexistance once again.

Clipped from an earlier reply (sic):

... This happened particuarly around the time when the whole "ground lead" fiasco came into play, which ultimently resulted in the FCC cracking down on part15 broadcasters who had previously been succeeding with on up to up to 10 mile range for years on end. ...

_________

Please elaborate -- with proof supporting your post that such was a fiasco.

Mr. Bruce has NOT YET posted on the NRR site.  And IF and WHEN he decides to he is welcome.

I know why he and ALOT of others  on this site don't and it's OK for we want those who have a pair.  It's their loss.

Clip from Reply 18 above:

... I know why he and ALOT of others on this site don't and it's OK for we want those who have a pair ...

Do you expect that your recent posts here will enhance your wish to persuade the FCC to permit that which you promote?