Mr. Bruce said, "when a licensed station changes their city of license, they are allowed a power increase, even though, their tower and transmitter are still located at the same coordinates."
Not true at all. Where did you hear that?
What is the actual truth? I don't want to look through the long list of regulations to find it, unless I had a station that was gaming for a power increase.
marosborne Said:
Not true at all. Where did you hear that?
MrBruce Said:
In the case of the stations I spoke of, it was discussed on various websites before the changes were official. It was also listed in a document located on the FCC's daily digests site.
I know one would prefer me to back up my claim with proof, the trouble with me locating that proof is the fact that proof is buried in a text document on the FCC's Daily Digests that does not have a name that relates it to the stations ID in question and that action took place some time ago.
I can not locate easily, where it was discussed that the station were going to point them selves to a different market area and apply for a power increase. Could have been AVS or Radioinsights or Radio Discussions forum boards, it could have been a number of websites, I know I read about it and then WBMW started posting on locally owned large road side billboards stating WBMW IS NOW 25,000 WATTS!! It was mentioned in all of their on-air monikers (station identification) That they were now broadcasting with 25,000 watts and could reach more people and places than before.
So the statements or comments turned out to be true, a 10,000 WATT WBMW claiming to be Sothern New England's most powerful radio station, went from 10,000 to 25,000 V/H, so that would be 12,500 Vertical and 12,500 Horizontal = 25,000 Watts.
The discussions were that by asking for a change in market area, this could allow a modification to allow a power increase.
I mis-typed the town as being Galesferry Connecticut, when I should have said Ledyard Connecticut, if you look at my link at:
You see Pawcatuck CT, but down below you see Ledyard CT, Ledyard is where their ORIGINAL city of license was listed, by changing the COL to Pawcatuck, CT they were allowed a power increase.
Now WWRX:
If you read the documents on that page about WWRX, you will see that they moved their city of license from Ledyard CT to Brandford R.I. but the broadcast tower is still located off route 2 in North Stonington CT. Doing so, allowed a power increase to serve their former COL, but the tower is STILL at the original coordinates.
If you click those links at the FCC page for WWRX, it will show you where the tower is located that the MAIN antenna is mounted on. Auxiliary facilities do not count, they are only a back up used if the main facilities fail for some reason.
Now, I know heresay is worth nothing as proof, I have too many places I visit that relate to FCC and broadcasting in general, so locating older on line information, without a bookmark to the page or document is next to impossible and mind you there are several websites that post written articles in relation to all types of broadcasting and that makes the challenge even greater even with the use of Google. 123,000 hits on Google search is a lot of reading before the articles I speak of finally pop up. I honestly can't even remember what year it was, let alone the date.
Bruce
As a point of interest, I am just jumping in here to state, the original MAIN transmitter for WBMW located in former COL Ledyard, CT is now their Auxiliary back up station, with 1,700 Watts Verticle 1,700 Watts Horizontal.
Thier 25,000 Transmitter is located in North Stonington CT same location as the original MAIN transmitter (Now an Auxiliary back up station), what makes things different now, is the City OF License change from the former COL Ledyard CT to the current COL of Pawcatuck CT.
To make my point stronger, look at the coordinates of the tower for Ledyard CT versus Pawcatuck CT, the numbers place one tower a few hundred feet from the other, Ledyard and Pawcatuck are 4 miles apart at the least, not several hundred feet.
See, engineers do a lot of serveying and mathematical calculations to find loopholes in the system or rules and take advantage of those loopholes for the sake of the station to give it a larger market area and or foot print by expanding its 60dBu contour.
That is why an engineer is hired by licensed broadcast stations, they know all the ropes and the weaknesses in the FCC rules.
Bruce.
It is not up to me to disprove your ludicrous assertion that if you change your city of license you can automatically increase your power. It is up to you to prove it.
You're talking to a guy here who is not perfect in any way, but one who has spent literally thousands of hours studying FCC rules and regs and hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years paying FCC lawyers in DC to deal with things like this.
PLEASE don't spread misinformation on the Internet, here or anywhere else. There's enough flotsam out there.
Careful, I think your electrolyte is boiling, better to replace it with a 105 C cap with a higher voltage for more headroom.
Your request just brings this topic way off topic from what I originally intended it to be, I added a fact in reference to a mention of RAP ruining the broadcast bands, although truely, it is not called RAP on FM they call it JAMS, RAP has profanity, JAMS are the edited clean version of RAP, mostly called HIP HOP.
I don't know what goes on in your area, or why, but I am entitled to make a comment without having to go back 10 years to find proof it once existed. I can not tell the future nor can I say good God someday I may speak about this in the future so I need to archive it because someone is going to say I published a bunch of bull.
If it is that important to you, you Google it and prove me wrong by presenting such proof from reliable sources. I am convinced because I did just that, read what was current day news at the time it was published. No one told me you would call me a lier at a later date and I needed to save the proof, therefore I didn't.
I hang out in a lot of web sites where engineers hang out and discuss matters related to broadcasting, some sites require an account for access and only members can see the material or interact with it. That does make me special, just means I registered and was accepted at no charge, therefore that is all that is required of anyone, just register, activate through your email address and your in.
It appears I made you mad, but it was not my intention to do so, it appears, someone who engineer's in the North-East knows what they are doing.
There are a lot of factors that can change a station's license. The antenna is the biggest factor here, because style and height, number of bays, location etc. makes all the difference in the world.
Whoever WBMW hired was someone who earned his pay, doing radio locator or https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/lpfm-channel-finder to find open frequencies often advises moving the antenna a few degrees north, east, west or south and you have an open available channel, it's that simple. And in some cases moving the antenna 20 feet over from planned location either blocks you or opens up a channel. The same goes with already licensed stations asking for a modification to the license.
If WWRX is in Brandford RI, why is their studio in Ledyard CT above a Subway sandwich shop along with WBMW 106.5 and 104.1 WMRQ? and their antenna in North Stonington CT?
Bruce.
Bruce, I don't want to make us enemies. I'm just trying to stop the spread of misinformation on an Internet that this full of it.
You stated that when a station is granted a change of community of license, the FCC automatically will grant a power increase. That is wrong.
Both you and I can find many, many instances where a radio station was able to change its community of license and increase its power. And we broadcasters love when that happens.
But I'll bet you a grand on this (literally): Your contention that when a radio station changes its COL -- even when keeping the same tower site -- it is automatically granted a power increase is not based at all in reality.
While this site is here mostly for all of us to learn how to construct and legally maintain Part 15 stations, secondarily, we're all here to learn about broadcasting in a broader sense.
Did you make me angry, as you suggested? No, not exactly. But your comment did irriate me. Adding more Internet Myths to the steaming pile of refuse that's already out there is enough to tick off anyone who knows which end is up.
I appreciate your interest in broadcasting and I hope that you fully accomplish everything you've set out to do. But if you or anyone misstates reality, I will call you on it. That's all.
marosborne Said:
Both you and I can find many, many instances where a radio station was able to change its community of license and increase its power. And we broadcasters love when that happens.
MrBruce Said:
marosborne reading what you stated above and the rest of your response I did not quote, I truely understand what you are saying, my choice of words and their meaning is what is misleading to those who don't know the whole story, so I can understand your concerns there, that does make total sense to me.
Let us let this rest, until I can succesfully locate the source of original information and point towards source here for other members to read it. I really don't know where to start, but then again I haven't even tried looking.
Deal?
Bruce.
On a seriously funny note, Rock and Roll is what "killed" audio quality in radio. But lets just all forget about reverb, holes punched in speakers, volumax, audimax, and all the other great audio distortion tricks we learned in the 60s. Remember everything we both love and hate about modern radio all started with the Top 40 AM format. The cheapness, the loudness, tight playlists, researched music, liner cards, and yet at the same time gave us an awesome era of radio everyone seems to want back.
Though in my opinion, I find nothing wrong with today's audio processing. Most stations in my area sound pretty good.
Hello marosborne
Here is the deal, I looked at two sites I visit for the information.
The long running ad scripts on most forum board sites are killer and slow down my PC beyond words, so searching was quite difficult to say the least.
Here are two articles I read in the past that I was able to find.
https://radioinsight.com/community/topic/107-7-moving-col-to-bradford-r-i/
And
WBMW 106.5 Signs on with 25,000 watt signal
http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?650640-WBMW-106-5-Signs-on-with-25-000-watt-signal
Okay, now in one of your responses, you said:
Quote:But I'll bet you a grand on this (literally): Your contention that when a radio station changes its COL -- even when keeping the same tower site -- it is automatically granted a power increase is not based at all in reality.
End of quote.
No one said it was automatically granted, including myself.
I said it happened, now of course I did not include any history as to the filing for a modification or change of COL request. That is because that information would be buried in a .pdf or .txt document at https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Digest/2016/dd2016.html
Now of course, the link above is for 2016. But there are links to former years at that same link. The daily digest information for WBMW in that Radio Discussions forum is dated July 13 2013, that means the filing information for WBMW is hidden in a document as far back as 2013 to as far back as 2011, that is a lot of searching to find that information.
As for WWRX, the forum post regarding WWRX moving COL to Brandford RI at Radio Insight forum is dated January 9 2014, so that means the filing for WWRX is either buried in 2013 or as far back as 2011, again that is one hell of a lot of document searching to find that information at The FCC's Daily Digests page.
The FCC daily digest does not have a search option, to query WWRX or WBMW to quickly find what I am looking for.
I will say this, I am sure neither situation took place without a lot of work and time, but then again, John Fuller is a very good station owner, meaning he knows how to make his stations make money and get a large audience and how to plant them stations where they generate the highest revnue.
Bruce.
Bruce, I quoted you as saying, "when a licensed station changes their city of license, they are allowed a power increase, even though, their tower and transmitter are still located at the same coordinates." You did not say it was automatic, but the implication was that changing a community of license triggers an FCC allowance for a power increase.
I'm not sure how else to interpret what you said, but if you meant something else, then this discussion is probably a waste of both of our energies.
Before someone mentions it, I did find a search option located at the bottom of the Daily Digests Page.
Here is a shortcut to the search page.
https://www.fcc.gov/general/fcc-search-tools
Search WBMW or WWRX if you are lucky you will find something other than "mod to CP" etc. which does not tell you much. I am still digging in the meantime.
Bruce.
marosborne Said:
Bruce, I quoted you as saying, "when a licensed station changes their city of license, they are allowed a power increase, even though, their tower and transmitter are still located at the same coordinates." You did not say it was automatic, but the implication was that changing a community of license triggers an FCC allowance for a power increase.
MrBruce Said:
marosborne you make a valid point here and I welcome your point in this discussion, because we can not always assume that everyone understands a point we are making just because we understand it with limited information being provided.
Your point is I worded my point the way it can be misunderstood by other members who come here to learn.
Now that you and I have talked here publicly where everyone can see it, I think we can both agree I chose the wrong sequence of words and choice of words that mis-inform people who may not understand the true meaning of my words.
I have no problem with being corrected or told I should have worded things differently than I did, it means I can accept criticism and advice from others.
So, with that being said, I agree with you and respect you for that and the fact that you spoke up and said something rather then allow people to read and misinterpret the information I provided in my post.
No hard feelings at this end and you are always welcome to step in and say something without fear that I will curse you out for it.
Bruce.
I guess rock and roll did muddy the waters in fidelity, but then that was the rise of youth culture in general, teens who wanted loud and might not have had the ear for finer sound quality. The same could be said for today's pop stations and why they're so turned up, whether the format is country or urban.
In my area the FM stations are jacked up, and most are owned by I-Heart and the other top companies. They might have a standard with the way they want processing adjusted, and if not, it sounds that way, they're all pretty much the same. There are more stations on the AM band that have backed off the processing. In one case I heard from an engineer than an AM's one processor box broke, and they just bypassed it, a rumor, but I can believe it.
People probably just like the feeling of the Top-40 format of old, and I think it's cool too, a simple thing that so many of your friends gathered around and had a shared community with. I think it should be out there for those that want it, it's history we shouldn't lose and there are enough outlets out there, and it would probably do great to bring it back to AM if you could find dedicated jocks to do it.
I think sound quality and processing is great today, the best its ever been, the ability to absolutely control levels with DSP is light years beyond what they had in the Top-40 era and diode clippers. Stations could be using it to put out beautiful sound to the best of their abilities, but they don't, it's the same old.