DIY Radials?

Here's what I did. My radial system is made from #12 gauge copper wire with plastic insulation (had a reel with some left over from another project). I made the ring from bare #12 hand formed into a 3 inch circle with a 4 inch pigtail coming off at right angles to the loop and attached 12 radials by looping the stripped end of each one over the ring and crimping with pliers. Then I soldered all the connections using a 150 watt soldering gun.

Once I was satisfied after testing that this would be a permanent installation I covered the solder connections and bare copper at the ring with several thick coats of "Liquid Electrical Tape". Another way to weatherproof such connections which I have used for outdoor RF connections is to form duct seal putty around them.

The transmitter/ground stake connection is then made to the pigtail lead with a wire nut stuffed with silicone electrical insulating grease.

The only cost is for the wire, liquid tape, and the grease.

A side comment about stainless or aluminum plates for connection to copper radials is that dissimilar metals in a moist environment is not a good idea because of electrolysis.

Neil

Awesome Neil / radio8z!

I get the basic gist of what you did. I like your idea best of any I've seen or come up with.

Any chance you have a photo of your handiwork? Pictures tend to clear up all the stupid questions I have.

How long were/are the 12 radials?

BTW: I am a big fan of the liquid electrical tape. Haven't used it in outside application like this. How well does it hold up?

Use a piece of 12/14 ga. copper wire for your ring. The current passing through the gounding will be low so there's no need for monster wire. The electric fence wire is galvanized so solder will stick to it. Hook the ends around the copper loop and solder.

Unfortunately, I have no pictures of the ring assembly but HERE'S ONE showing my test setup. For this I had stripped the ends of the radials and twisted them together and soldered them with a torch. I changed to the ring because this twisted thing was big and ugly. I used 12 radials, each 10 feet long.

I also wish I had used black wire instead of white because the final installation is partly in a mulch bed and the raccoons pull up the wires when they root for worms and the white color is very visible. ARRRRGGGGHHHH!

As far as holding up, I used the liquid tape when I replaced the piercing splice connectors on outdoor walkway lighting (was unreliable) with soldered connections. These have been underground for four years now with no problems. I recently did a visual on one splice and there is no corrosion.

The suggestion of using electric fence wiring is worth considering for cost savings but I have no experience with this. I am a bit leery though since the solder will change the electrochemistry and I know the solder will deteriorate over time but it may work just fine.

Neil

"solder will change the electrochemistry and I know the solder will deteriorate over time but it may work just fine."

I've used common silicone seal on solder connections that are exposed to the weather or on buried connections. Never had any problems.

Another tip is to use insulated solid wire, or encase them in shrink wrap or even wrap them in household plastic wrap. Be some time before that corrosive dirt makes it's way through that plastic and get at the wire!

RFB

Thanks everyone.

Folks on here are mighty kind and generous in sharing their stories.

Now that the weather has gone back to heck of winter, probably going to sit by the fire and get to making my improvised radial ring.

12 gauge wire and solder mean this is going to be mighty cheap. Have those parts laying around.

Only cost will be the spool of wire for the radials and probably going to try the electric galvanized fence stuff since it comes in 1/4 mile spool and is cheap < $15, I believe.

So I have parts in hand to work on the radial collar ring. Have the 12 gauge copper from a spool of utility type wire, solid copper, rather rigid.

Fetched some various 16-20 gauge wires out of storage bins. Mostly old speaker wire. Divided the two wires on each so now have about 10-12 wires of various length (6-20+ ft.)

There are some concepts I am missing here.

For the collar ring (12 gauge copper), does anyone see any reason to fully unshield/uncover the ring (i.e. strip to to bare metal)? Was thinking about spot removal of the insulation where radial arms are attached and leave the rest covered with standard wire insulation.

Next, are the radials tied to the antenna and ground? Can the radials just be there and unattached physically? I've never been clear with Part15 AM how the radials are tied into the antenna mount /stack and the transmitter. Mind you I am using the Talking House with a 3M whip and the internal ATU... Imagine if the the radials are bound to the antenna then the ATU (internal) won't tune the antenna with radials attached.

The entire ground radial system must be connected to the transmitter ground. A wire must run from the transmitter ground terminal to the collar, and all radials must be soldered to the collar.

There is no technical reason to strip all the insulation off the collar wire loop. You just need to ensure each radial wire is soldered to the collar wire, but you will have an easier time if you strip all the insulation off the collar wire rather than trying to expose individual points to solder to.

I like your latest idea of scrounging for radial wires rather than using galvanized electric fence wire. Electric fence wire is intended for above earth installation. If you use it on/in the earth it will be exposed to constant moisture. Any weakness in the galvanized coating will break down and the underlying iron will rust to oblivion. This may take a few years, but the eventual result will be deterioration and destruction of your radials. Copper will last a lot longer.

"Mind you I am using the Talking House with a 3M whip and the internal ATU... Imagine if the the radials are bound to the antenna then the ATU (internal) won't tune the antenna with radials attached."

Considering the unit will tune it's wire when using the TH's supplied power supply, which is where the return path is via the power adapter's ground line and the unit tunes up just fine, should tune up ok with your proposed ground system.

Phil is right that the ground system should be electrically connected to the ground of the TH, as described before, connect a wire by attaching it to one of the cabinet screw points, tighten screw and run the wire to the support structure (short pole) and at the bottom of that pole attach your ground system to the pole..ie electrically connected.

You can try the inductive approach, but it probably won't do much good unless you have two sets of radial systems to form a capacitor with large plates. One plate is electrically connected while the other is not and is the radial system. Then you adjust the spacing between these large plates to "tune" the whole mess to get the inductive ground coupling.

RFB

Thanks for the info @PhilB!

I see *lots* of confusion about the length of the radials themselves. Considering running this for AM band with a 3 meter above ground antenna shouldn't the radials be at least equal to the antenna's length? (i.e. 3 meter)

For the upper side of the AM band (1600-1710) how long is realistic radial arm length?

Is a balun required for this also?

----

So far I've spot stripped a 12 gauge ring of solid copper wire. I've removed 16 spots along the ring for wire to be soldered to the ring and then to be coated in liquid tape.

"I see *lots* of confusion about the length of the radials themselves."

Not confusion, just various opinions based on the various conditions in which determines what can be put down..ie limited space etc.

"Considering running this for AM band with a 3 meter above ground antenna shouldn't the radials be at least equal to the antenna's length? (i.e. 3 meter)"

Equal to the radiator, or longer..longer being better.

"For the upper side of the AM band (1600-1710) how long is realistic radial arm length?"

Irrelevant since you want equal to or greater than the 3 meter element itself, and always best to be double..ie 6 meters. Any longer than that is a waste and doesn't improve anything. A thread regarding this is buried somewhere in the thread abyss.

"Is a balun required for this also?"

No.

" I've removed 16 spots along the ring for wire to be soldered to the ring and then to be coated in liquid tape."

Hopefully that liquid tape will hold up to the dirt's corrosive elements. Remember that the dirt's corrosive elements can eat through metal. Regular old weather seal silicone would do better.

RFB

Thank you @RFB!

Good points as always. Your input makes what I am trying both possible and sane.

Radials are possible if I mount this either in my front yard or if I go totally offgrid and mount this in my back lot across the alley. Like most, have limited space and things to work around. 20 ft radials are probably going to make obstructions and hazards, so we'll get creative there --- perhaps doing some slight burial where necessary.

I plan on soldering the copper radial arms to the copper radial collar. Then after all attached doing a wrap of the connection points. Outdoor silicon might be the best thing in all ways. It is cheap, easy enough to work with, proven, etc. My only apprehension with it is I've seen it fall off things in chunks over time. So I'll probably do my liquid tape job then silicon the area later.

Wondering how much wear to such materials will be moisture and temperature stresses compared to UV breakdown. Contemplating putting the ring in a raised airborne position 1-3 inches above soil. Doing such would eliminate some of the obvious sources of material breakdown and keep the ring accessible for maintenance.

Planning on running the radials at top of the soil level. No trenching or anything. If some become buried on their own over time I'll let them go and do that.

Read about radials "de-tuning" when placed underground. This was for HAM band radials. Does this apply here?

Looking at 19.66 feet for each radial arm length. We'll call that an even 20 feet. 16 in total = 320 feet of radial wire. Yep, I need to scrounge more wire or go the luxury route of buying some new wire for the difference.

" Outdoor silicon might be the best thing in all ways. It is cheap, easy enough to work with, proven, etc. My only apprehension with it is I've seen it fall off things in chunks over time. So I'll probably do my liquid tape job then silicon the area later."

Use the clear silicone and not the solid white silicone.

RFB

The silicone RTV usually available at hardware stores uses acetic acid as a catalyst inhibitor. This acid will corrode metal.

I am not saying it won't work for this application but I don't use it for any electronic projects.