There is a lot of confusion out there regarding copyright and the availability of public domain material to play on a Part 15 radio station.
There is a lot of confusion out there regarding copyright and the availability of public domain material to play on a Part 15 radio station.
I'm in the process of setting up Artisan Radio to play music that is in the public domain in Canada (specifically, I'm going to do a 'public domain' music show), and did some research. What I found out surprised me.
First, copyright exists in both the musical work itself, AND the sound recording.
In Canada, copyright for musical works extends to 50 years past the death of the composer. But, and here is where it gets interesting, copyright in the recording itself only extends 50 years past the end of the calendar year in which the work was recorded. So, if you are looking for musical recordings in the public domain in Canada, you first need to find songs in which the composer died prior to 1962, AND the recording has to have been made prior to that year as well.
In the U.S., if the musical work was published prior to 1923, then it is in the public domain (there are a few exceptions due to cases brought before State courts and the Supreme Court, but you are pretty safe assuming that). However, and this is the biggie, there are absolutely NO musical recordings in the public domain. NONE! Musical recordings were not even considered under copyright laws until 1972, and from that point, they last for 95 years. So the first date at which any musical recording goes into the public domain is 2067! Pretty amazing.
Of course, if you are producing your own talk shows, or play music from indie artists that was both written and played by those artists, and you have their permission, then you can do that.
Otherwise, you'd better get that BMI or ASCAP Part 15 copyright license to be legally compliant with the copyright laws. In Canada, we're lucky, as we only have to deal with one licensing body - SOCAN - and they have reciprocal arrangements with all the major licensing agencies around the world.
Next up - Old Time Radio. Because the laws don't seem to differentiate between musical and spoken recordings. So what I described above may apply to old time radio shows as well. And that's interesting because most of them have been generally considered to be in the public domain, both in Canada and the U.S.
Please note that I am not a lawyer, the information I've presented is just my understanding of what I have recently found out.
There will always be those differences from one country to another.
I avoid it all together and not mirror the thousands already playing what the other thousands are doing.
Being unique is better than morphing into a go along to get along set IMO.
Indie...trouble free and growing like wildfire.
RFB
Ah, but there are some types of music and recordings that they just don't make anymore. Unfortunately, those are the ones that interest me the most (such as vintage jazz, 50s teenage-oriented stuff, etc.).
Most of the stuff being produced today, and in recent times (recent being the last 25 years or so), including indie, just doesn't cut it, imho.
The reason I posted this is that there really does seem to be a disconnect between the reality of copyright laws, both in the U.S. and Canada, and what people think they are. I know that I was extremely surprised to learn that there are absolutely NO music recordings in the public domain in the U.S. And that there won't be any until 2067!
So there really is little choice in the U.S. - either get a Part 15 copyright license, or do the indie or talk thing. Nothing in between.
Artisan I have the proper respect for your revelation that we are operating in violation if airing recorded music we thought was publicly domained, but which still clings to a recording copyright.
Then comes our scrambling to come into compliance based on that severe discovery.
We small entities have been once again put upon, and someday we will rise up and repair the system, but right now we are busy running scared.
"but there are some types of music and recordings that they just don't make anymore."
Very true. Probably the largest reason why indie stuff is gaining a lot of momentum, not just music, but independent produced movies and tv shows. One I can think of (movie) right off is a sci-fi skit called Iron Sky.
I think that momentum will continue to build and begin to overtake the recycled mainstream. Eventually the mainstream will surround itself with no choice but to be creative once again.
RFB
i liken part 15 radio to this. you are singing in the shower your neighbor over hears you.
if we were to bring the analogy of a single site part 15 run from your home over to the person singing in the show the person in the shower would owe royalties to the big three.
a single site part 15 has enough power to be background noise at a distance. it was designed that way.
you are essentially running a hobby station for your benefit and enjoyment the fact that a couple of neighbors might be able to pick up your signal does not mean you owe royalties.
this is why i stated don't have a site or be careful how you word your site as not to imply intent on your part for others to pick up your signal, and don't run a stream.
the more naive or not so in the know people keep paying *b*m*i* and other two where they should the more it will bolster their position and hurt people like me who do this as a hobby and live off a fixed income with no resources or income producing station to pay them. not to mention the underage kids who may get into the hobby who have parent who can't afford to pay them.
don't listen to any of them this all got started because someone approached them about this and they are happy to have the revenue stream. in short they lied because it is in their interests to do so and their attorneys most likely said they can get away with it.
i believe if a case such as mine where there is no advertising or business activity and it's just a hobby were to go to court they would lose.
it's fair use.
these systems were designed at best to send music from a phono to radios around your house modern tech has made them a little better but in the eyes of the law they are still just that. phono oscillators!!!!
where is rich fry when you need him lol.....
Possibly, kc8gpd, but that's one for the lawyers, and the rights holders. And as you describe it, it only applies to Part 15 radio broadcasting over the airwaves. If you have an Internet stream, then you potentially can be listened to anywhere in the world. That's some big shower.
Anyway, I personally don't particularly care what others do. I know that I, read I, want to attempt to operate within the rules (as opposed to at least one other here on this Forum who wants others to operate within the rules, but doesn't appear to do anything with Part 15 himself). As as I stated previously, I posted this because in doing the research, I ended up being quite surprised at the end results. And I thought I understood the copyright rules.
You can take it or leave it as you wish.
And, man - they were TERRIBLE!
Talk about bad sound effects. We
wanted the sound of coffee being
poured into a cup. We used a new
bottle of ginger ale. (Talk about
dumb.)
It went like this:
(Chief Detective Rod Smugs) "Hey - we'll
get those dirty stinkin thugs if it's the last thing
we do! ...Y'know, things are pretty quiet
here at the station house... Ya want
a cup of fresh coffee Rico?"
(Rico) "Yeah... Yeah - sure boss."
(Smugs) "OK. Hold out your coffee cup. Yeah. That's
good. Right there. OK. I'll pour. Watch out
ya lug. This is HOT coffee. OK. Here it comes..."
(Rico) "OK boss. I'm ready."
(Smugs) "OK. Here it comes. Watch it..."
(Rico) "Hey, what da ya think I am, a stinkin
looser? Ya think I'm not good enough for
ya? Ya think I'm stupid, like last years
dirty stinkin laundry? I got my cup right here!"
(Rico, again, with more emotion) "Right HERE! POUR!"
(Smugs) Well, OK. But remember, it's HOT!"
(Rico) "Yeah yeah yeah, ya said that before. Go AHEAD."
(Smugs) "Alright! You ASKED for it! There's no turning
back now!"
(Rico) JUST DO IT ALREADY!"
(Smugs) I'm pouring the coffee NOW!"
(Sound of coffee pouring, but remember - we had
SODA in the bottle!)
(Pouring sound) then:
FFFFFZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ SHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSH
(sound of bubbles in glass)
(Smugs) "Ya like the coffee Rico?"
(Ginger Ale is still fizzing)
FFFFFFZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
)Rico) "Uh yeah - it's real - "
At that point my brother and I broke into
explosive laughter, because we could not
contain the goofiness of the situation any more!
We practically fell on the floor with laughter!
Before that, we needed the sound of a dead body
falling on the floor. We took a big mattress -
stood it up on end, and then let it fall.
"FLLLLP!" It just sounded all wrong.
Scrap that radio drama, which actually had the name:
SCUM CITY
(This is true.)
Getting back to the other thing:
I could make my own indie music. Some
of it would be pretty good. If my son
was involved, we could make some great
indie music.
I am a jazz piano player. And my son -
is a really good singer who plays multiple
musical instruments. Well - we could program our
own comedy and music. I could play improv
jazz on the piano for 24 hours and then just
let it play over and over. Nobody would ever
know the difference. (Probably, nobody would ever listen, either.)
But that would be horrible to listen to over and over in
my house on my two FMs on 88.3 and 90.9, and
on the experimental 1020 kHz carrier current.
My wife would kill me. (She has tried many times
before, but I run too fast. (SERIOUSLY, that's
just a joke.))
I think that some of the music/spoken word stuff
that some of you guys stream is so incredibly obscure,
that you will never ever have any problems. Some
of the Part 15 stations that I listen to, via streaming -
well - they will play some THING that only 3 people in
the whole world remember. I really don't think that's
a problem. ESPECIALLY with the really obscure stuff.
For whatever it's worth.
Bruce, "W sixty H Z" AM 1020 carrier current
And: The Big Ear Monitoring System
(Listening to Myself)
Can't you play PART of a song,
and have it not be a violation
of copyright?
Again, for whatever it's worth.
Bruce, "W sixty H Z" 1020 AM Carrier Current
Bruce you and the family should provide a music source for part 15 stations. I could go 24/7 with Dog Leash Music on all night.
Let me know if it's a deal.
I have heard people say before, that
Part 15 set-ups are not really radio
stations. I really believe the copyright
thing is not a problem.
Zillions and zillions of college carrier
current stations ran for decades. Some
are still active. (I just became aware
of one in Boston, that is still operating
on 640 kHz.) These aren't really radio
stations either. They are really more
like intercoms. In the case of NOT STREAMING,
I think all of the above is safe. Of course,
that is just my opinion.
And in the case of streaming, if you have a small
audience, and you are playing obscure material
from the way past, I think in the real world -
you are safe.
Of course, this is just my opinion. I agree with
what Robert said.
Bruce, "W sixty H Z" 1020 kHz CC
We'll Carl, after we move - things
will probably calm down.
I CAN compose Dog leash Music, but
I am not very well versed.
The sheet music will have to be
composed mainly in the key of R.
Bruce, "W sixty H Z" AM 1020 kHz CC