PERHAPS Rich can tell us about the license requirement section of the Part 15 carrier current regulations?
Part 15 does not address licensed AM/FM stations, AFAIK. They are covered in other parts of Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Right. Part 15 describes devices and circumstances within which unlicensed activity is permitted.
Part 15, in its skip-about style, describes carrier current allowances over a frequency span of 9kHz to 216MHz, all unlicensed so long as the field measurements are properly adhered.
Rule 15.221 is the most commonly referenced example of carrier current radio, but it is not "specific" in the sense of being "exclusive" or "singular;" there are other carrier current functions ALSO allowed, a familiar example being a home baby monitor using long wave frequencies.
Historically, HAMs have used carrier current in the short wave spectrum.
I think some of the exhibitions made during this thread have made a few things clear and sharpened up what started as confusion.
But a few seeming disagreements are peppered about which shift around like jello as they are addressed.
Are yall shitting me fellas?
Enough with the bullshit seriously !
Just because there isn't an official regulation under part 15 because ccfm is very new and would still fall under 219 on p15 and is NOT ILLEGAL. I STARTED THIS VERY YOUNG AND GOTEN HELP WITH LOCAL ENGINEERS AND OTHER P15ERS OKAY. I WAS NOT BORN YESTERDAY AND WHEN I DO THESE THINGs I do my study and homework and testing. And its goes into the months And the fact I get told on here. What iam doing is wrong and not right that's a slap in the face.
Enough with the attacks on here with each other and on me!
Just because ya ll been doing this for multiple years does not give you the right to argue attack anal arrogant!
and I will not ignore this! I have autism and I believe in standing your ground!
ABMedia1 I have been on your side during all this, proving in several ways that what you are doing is totally legal, and the rules I quoted or referred to all support you being legal.
One other member didn't seem willing to agree with me or you, and that happens sometimes.
Go back and read every post made by me, Carl, and read it with the awareness that I am laying out proof that your operation is completely legal.
From Post 33: Just because there isn't an official regulation under part 15 because ccfm is very new and would still fall under 219 on p15 and is NOT ILLEGAL.
Just wondering if we should expect FCC §15.219, which applies to unlicensed use of the AM broadcast band, also to apply to an unlicensed use of the FM broadcast band.
So - do you have schems or info on the CCFM? I would LOVE to drop one of those in my cluster...
I had the same question, so I did some searching. There are, as usual, anecdotal experiences and speculation, but little or no technical basis for running such high frequency into the power lines.
BPL is often cited as an example that proves the power lines can carry up to 70 MHz, and even higher experimentally. However, BPL power lines absolutely require special RF bypass devices at each transformer, and details of the coupling method to the power lines in the home are obscure. You would probably have to wade through some really technical papers to find that information. BPL is not widely used and is waning in popularity.
The now defunct LPB Communications, Inc. has always been a reference source for information about carrier current. In one of their documents, TECHNICAL NOTE #1 – CARRIER CURRENT BROADCASTING THEORY, they make the following statement:
" Carrier current FM broadcasting is not possible because at the much higher frequencies of the FM broadcast band the loss characteristics of the low voltage power wiring would consume all the FM signal before it got more than a few feet down the AC power wiring."
This document is linked to in http://www.part15.us/content/pdf-file-reading-room
and is actually available for download at two sites: http://utopianetwork.home.comcast.net/carrier/cct.pdf
www.askcbi.org/oldcbi/cctech/CBICarrierCurrentTheory.pdf
Bull !@#$/^!@#$/^ )&/$!
I have been doing ccfm for almost 6 years now.
And did 3 years of studing off and on.
Its possible and it works because I have TRIED IT G&^/$#@IT I'm on99.9 mhz and have damn great coverage for p15 ccfm. on those power lines
If you ddon't believe me. Take your [edited] engineer [edited] Down here to sherman texas and take a [edited] look for yourself!
I been with this place for over 3 years and I it isn't the same and never was attacked by u new people [edit]!
[edited];
Neil and carl blaire please contact me
[edit note: edited for unnecessary harsh language. Neil]
Theory disproving actual practice being funneled into community broadcasting was the exact reason part15.us was created. It was created to help people who wanted to put free thinking to the test, to actually do something.. To prove some of these antiquated concepts and untried theories wrong.. Or right.. But either way to try it.
abmedia has a part 15 cc fm operation going. He is doing it. Now, I'm pretty sure we've driven him off. Good job guys. I am suitably proud. Now, who's next on the kill list?
He won't be driven off because he knows he's right.
And I know he's right.
In my bit by bit study of the rules in the many sections that discuss carrier current, I proved that the FM band of 88 - 108 mHz is NOT off limits.
ALSO, my point that using the electric lines as an antenna is 100% legal under the usual rule for doing Part 15 FM.
By the way, some baby monitor devices which use carrier current legally under the Part 15 rules USE FREQUENCY MODULATION on the long wave band! That way the baby monitor cannot be heard on people's normal long wave AM radios.
I enjoy reading posts from all of
you guys. Every single one of you.
I've been here on and off for 7 years
or so. I like you all - and this board is
a real lifeline for me. I'm not kidding.
So whatever.
I've done a zillion Part 15 experiments.
Most have failed. But a few have been great!
So I'll try FM CC some day.
What the heck.
Bruce, DOGRADIO
P.S. Sorry for the weird
spacing. I seem to have
constant computer problems
here.
So, let's take a look at this thread. One person said CC FM works for him, there was some rules discussion, and I made one short post quoting LPB that CC FM won't work based on power line losses at high frequencies.
What's with everyone griping about radio theory anyway? I completely missed the concept that Part15.us is an experimenters forum. Maybe it should be renamed to Part15Experimenters.us? I thought it was a simple part 15 radio discussion forum. I also missed the part about radio theory discussion being disallowed. Maybe the forum rules should be updated. Oh, and don't forget to delete all the technical stuff from the "Library" section. Maybe the moderator should add some additional forums on things like UFOs and paranormal activity. Seems like they would appeal to the anti-science people here.
I like experimentation too, but reports of experiments should include some supporting evidence. Too often I have seen posts like ... I cover my whole town with an antenna wire connected to a burned out fuse duck taped to a cold water pipe. Pretty soon everyone is trying it. Ask them why they tried it and they will say they know it will work because they read it on the internet and they just need to do some more tweeking to get their version working.
Psychology might be the better term.
I know a lady who sends ten-dollar bills to the periodic prayer offers from a convent, the nuns then pray on behalf of the donor, and everything good that happens to her is a direct result of the prayer.
I think what LPB meant was that FM CC rarely works, at least not enough to justify offering a product for FM CC.
But if FM CC works in 1/10th of 1% of all cases, that would be the lucky situation enjoyed by ABMedia1. Unless his is purely a case of the electric wires radiating as an antenna and not literally functioning in the strict carrier current sense.
If ABMedia1's FM station had no output at all, there would be nothing to talk about. But he finds it to be working to his satisfaction.
Will there be a rush to FM CC? No.
We'll.. It WAS about experimentation. However this seems to have changed.. Enjoy.
That's why I come here. I can find
info that is just too hard to find
elsewhere. Really really GOOD info.
I never would have gotten my station
on the air at all if it wasn't for the group
here.
And because of a really unconventional
work and living schedule, sometimes I am
alone and I like to talk to you guys.
Well, anyway, I'm off to the coal mines
now.
Bruce, DOGRADIO