seems to be odd out of character behavior for the canadian version of fcc,,,
from facebook,,,
"''Industry Canada constantly harassing me regarding my Part-15 Canadian operations (RSS-210 for AM and BETS-1 for FM) Any one in Canada know how to deal with this? I have been dealing with them for about 10 years now since I started my various operations. In Canada for AM I use unmodified Canadian certified Procaster AM transmitter and for the FM band I use the Bets-1 certified Decade-MS100 transmitter. These as far as I know and also the only products visible in the Industry Canada equipment database that are licensed exempt. In Canada unlike in the USA we can not build our own transmitter via kits for example. So that cuts out all that other popular line up of transmitters such as the Ramsey products for FM. And in Canada you can't run a RangeMaster AM cause it is not IC certified. I known this for a long time and only use certified equipment. The AM setup gets a couple miles average as discussed many times by others using it on here. My Decade FM gets about 1 KM when it is mounted up high on a rooftop or tower with the aid of a weather proof box. ( The ms100 is an indoor FM transmitter) In Canada the rules for Bets-1 offers about 4 times more the field strength then USA Part-15, Hence the tiny bit of extra range. Bets-1 offers a field strength of 100uv/m at 100 feet vs USA Part-15 at 250 uv/m at 3 meters, I keep running the math and even used some online calculators and it does seem to check out.
-> How ever over the years and months I get letters and voice mails and even unexpected visits from the Industry Canada spectrum manager. (Canadian version of FCC people) They always tell me that my stations are not legal. They seem to pick more on my FM setups but I have a hard time with my AM stuff as well. More or less I just ignore them and let them talk and scare me. Sometimes I even get treats of getting the RCMP to deal with this If I don't shut down. I ask for proof. I request reports etc, They never give me anything and then just back away for a while then a few months later it is the same game over again. They are aware of my equipment but they claim that Part-15 FCC field strength of 250uv/m at 3 meters is the same as saying 100uv/m at 100 feet is identical to that of BETS-1 Canadian requirements and that at 100 feet my signal should be gone completely and that they won't accept anything more. I keep arguing that the close to 1km range outdoor with a great radio is normal for this limit and not just myself but others that take these transmitters, Mount them on towers shielded from the outdoor elements get about the same range. They figure and argue that something is not right like that I have modded the equipment to offer this much range when in really I don't think they understand their line of work. So I wen't as far as Emailing all of the CRTC commissioners explaining to them my situation how Industry Canada is getting in the way and not allowing broadcast exemptions setup by our very own CRTC the people who regulate radio content and broadcasting. They have these rules set out right on their page. http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/1993/PB93-46.HTM
I got no response from the CRTC. Then mailed their legal department. Still no response. I then wen't online and sent a long email explaining what is going on with my case to every Industry Canada office in Canada with still no response. And for about 2 months my local office has my phone number blocked, The line just rings and rings and no one ever calls me back when I leave messages. Yet when they want to harass me then they have no problem showing up unexpected just to get to my nerves and scare me to shut down my various systems.
I'm getting frustrated with their behavior it seems it all all one way sided...
Anyone else have a hell story from Canada to share or perhaps hints of experience on how to deal with this? Industry Canada is so Mad/Upset/Angry by me it feels very personal as I know them all from the visits and heated debates.... I have some other radio licenses non broadcasting that are due for review and updates I need to take care of. Some commercial VHF stuff and they are not even processing any application with my name on it! So I might have to go to my MP........"""
I replied to that post in Facebook.
I suspect that this individual's issues have become personal with the local Industry Canada office. You're dealing with people, after all, and it's easy for relationships, even business relationships, to get out of hand.
As I stated in Facebook, my experiences with Industry Canada were exactly the opposite. Although I do agree that most IC Spectrum Managers (that's what they're called) don't know a whole lot about BETS-1. I was lucky in getting one assigned to me when I first started up that did, but I haven't been as lucky in recent dealings with them (questions from me only, not enforcement).
I've suggested that the individual involved ask Industry Canada to come out to his site and take field strength readings. He claims to be using unmodded Industry Canada certified equipment. If that is the case (and I have no reason to think otherwise), he should be legal, and that might go a long way to reduce his issues.
After all, what can most people do, given the expense of sensitive field strength meters, other than to use certified equipment and assume that they're legal as a result. If Industry Canada (and the FCC) have a problem with that, then they should either 1) take the issue up with the manufacturers, as they're the ones getting the certification or 2) make it easier for BETS-1 (and Part 15) broadcasters to determine if they're legal by changing over to a more easily measurable standard, such as watts (or microwatts, or whatever).
I totally agree. Sounds like they're getting way too picky about things like this. All because of New York radio pirates.
Could be something fishy going on here.
Yes it's true every transmitter here(Canada) has to be certified so you can't use a Ramsey or a SStran or even a Talking house.
BUT...if you get it checked and tested and show Industry Canada it meets the rules you will get the certification for it.
100uV/M at 30 meters is NOT equal to 1000/uV/M at 3 meters! As Rich illustrated and Timinbovey's tests showed, it takes, depending on other factors, considerally MORE than that to get a signal of 100uV at 30 meters. It's not a logarithmic scale.
The Canadian rule is 100uV/M@30meters and has no relationship to the FCC rule which is based on 3 meters.
But RSS-210 is the same as the USA but we here in Canada have the BETS classification which allows more.
Here is the facts on what needs a licence and what doesn't:
http://www.decadetransmitters.com/en/radio-licences.htm
These are the facts.
I repeat that something is wrong here....some scam or something.
Not allowed to call, messages from "officials", harrassment....no response...something's up! This for 10 years!!...but you have not been shut down?!!!!!
Mark
Have gone to Facebook and told the person to read my reply here.....also anyone who says that 250uV/M at 3 meters is the "same" as 100uV/M at 30 meters is to be politically correct very misinformed.
Mark
I said not a logarithmic scale by mistake.....ment to say not a LINEAR scale when I was referring to the FCC and BETS-1 rules.
Mark
Hello, I am the original poster of this Facebook post. These are indeed my stations. No modifications are made to my equipment and the range is what everyone expects for these systems. Yes IC seems to have gotton personal with me. People issues getting involved in business indeed is a sad story but it happens! I get warnings even letters now and then. Sometimes they show up without appointment at my door All hot headed verbally demanding that I shut down my various stations just like that. They have never provided me with paper work or any evidance that I am in the wrong, Just a bunch of words and verbal treats such as jail time and RCMP if I don't listen to them but they never act beyond that.. But yes in 10 years it never goes anywhere. ( they tell me they are complain driven and my stations get constent complaints from some local broadcaster who has a "thing" againts me and a superiour complex that because hes got the CRTC license hes the only one who should be able to "broadcast" content.... But that is not my problem what the other broadcasters think as long as I comply. I was told this broadcaster got his layer after our local IC office for letting me do this, To a point it caused one of the local spectrum guys to go on long term sick leave it was too much internal stress dealing with this broadcaster all over me. So now that explains why my local office went sour over me... But again that is not my problem! 🙁 And to wrap things up. No they never are able to shut them down but its this constent nag like I am doing something wrong. And now they are so upset they won't even proccess any application with my name on it. ( Yes you can get a transmittrer self certified for IC use as far as I know trough the IC certification bureau but I think you gotta pay for it and its like a couple thousand?)
Sorry to hear of your troubles!
You are perfectly legal and maybe you could enlighten the broadcaster where you are about BETS-1.
And also if anyone at Industry Canada tries to say you can't have "regular" programming on BETS-1.....that's out of their authority, the CRTC regulates that. You are in the right and that's why in 10 years you are still operating.
Like to hear of other Canadians in this hobby.....enjoy.
Mark
One of the thoughts I had was to attempt to mend some fences with the complaining broadcaster. It's obvious that Industry Canada is reacting to their complaints in spite of your legal unlicensed station. I don't know if it's possible, but it might be worth a try. Surely you're not taking all that much revenue away from them, and even if you are, perhaps it's even possible to enter into some sort of partnership with them (buy an ad on your station, get a discount for an ad on their station or some other sort of promotion).
Because even though they might have this feeling of entitlement with them being licensed and all, at the end of the day it's money that talks. And surely there's room for both of you, considering the vastly different ranges (and I'm sure, listenership) that both stations have.
I used to work for the local licensed radio station as tech before it got bought out by another local "ish" company, My name was recommended to them and the big boss in his very own words was "No way!" I know about this from one of the board meatings. I still have a few contacts friends that not directly involved over hear this outburst when my name was mentioned around the table hehe! Small towns ... 🙁 The sales rep of that station and I get along great with and she thinks the whole thing is stupid and could sell combined and both would get more money....
this reminds me of the KENC situation from a few years back.
Got mouthy with the FCC agent. Not too smart. The FCC agent then made a project out of him.
LOL, glad to finally hear what started the whole thing after all this time. Go figure.
Like I stated previously, FCC (and Industry Canada) inspectors are people only doing their job. Piss them off and they'll be very diligent down to the last letter, comma and period of the law. Be respectful and work with them, and they'll likely cut you some slack. Of course, there are exceptions to that last statement, and it appears that our fellow member in the Ottawa area is one of them.
The way I see it, It is like a cop that stops you on the streets and suppose he then starts to ask you a bunch of questions like "what are you doing tonight? Where are you heading sir?" ( I'm from a small town so this kind of thing happens frequently) Unless there is something wrong, like being public intoxicated or put under arrest for something there is no need to have to give out any information that is asked. Sometimes if they insist you have to get tough with them and let them know they have a boss that you are going to call if this "harassment" keeps up. Obviously even if you didn't do anything wrong, From that point on, When ever that officer is on duty he is always gonna have an eye out for you. I understand that. But the law is also the law. As much as this cop hates me, can not change the laws to get me in trouble. So knowing I am watched. As long as I do not do anything wrong. They have nada on me. I feel it is a similar case here. The IC people are just pissed off because deep down they wished that 10 years ago I would of just shut down when they had the first complaint.Would of saved them all the consistent troubles over the years ( It is their paying jobs after all, to process spectrum complains that is even if they are not valid ones such as this local broadcaster) All IC treats have always been verbal or asked indirectly in letters leaning towards an edge that enforcement is on the way when never anything gets done because like some have said on here, My systems are legal. I just wanted to share my experiences with others in Canada. That even with all this drama the stations have never been shutdown by IC. So others can do the same as well if they are ready to deal with potential IC drama. At the same time while someone reads this perhaps they would have had an idea to make it so that IC lay off. My stations are in no danger of getting shutdown. I just wish the IC nags would go away some day. It is kind of like that one phone call that keeps making it past your block list announcing that you won a free trip! Just an annoyance that gives minor inconveniences.