Behringer DSP-1424P Settings & VMX1000 Mixer Lacking High Frequency.

I did not take offense to your comments or considered it hijacking. My question to you is: Do you have your processor set to a default type of process?  I have found that Light is better than getting more agressive. But I also seem to be lacking highs as well. Using this for a licensed LPFM.

At WDCX, no I am not using a pre-set on the DSP-9024, I did not seem to find any that sounded good.

I borrowed a set up someone else published on the web and made minor tweaks to it. I can publish what settings I currently have on the DSP9024 if needed.

I suppose what I really need to do is feed each device by its self into a stereo system and listen to the audio from each device separately.

I have used the A/B or processor in-out switch on the DSP-9024 and still seem to lack clean sounding vocals from the Behringer VMX1000 mixer. Something is screwy somewhere here, just can't pin-point it for some reason.

This has been driving me nuts to no end. Now I do use Zara radio free, for the most part I do have the AGC in Zara radio checked off (ON), I think at one time, I had it unchecked and there was no audio upon starting Zara up, or next to no audio. I'll have to try that test run again.

Now, one of the biggest issues I deal with is nerve damage in my ears, my right ear is the worse of the two, if I block my left ear and listen through my right, everything is totally distorted, mumbled, garbled including human voices that fall under the higher frequency spectrum.

Now, my mixer does have 3 EQ settings for each of the 5 channels as well as the two microphone inputs. Each goes from -32dB to +32dB and are centered at 50Hz, 1.2KHz and 10KHz.

I have noticed that while playing vinyl records that the volcals are some-what burried or very distant, like as if using a 3-way speaker system and the voice cone is not hooked up. I can hear the BASS no problem, but there lacks something in the mid to upper range area.

My mixer does have inputs for phonographs and I am using channels 1 and 2 for those.

I have asked people if the Behringer VMX1000 should be rebuilt, re-capped etc. and most have said it shouldn't need to have that done to it.

I do not have a scope at this moment and time to check everything out, but I know I should get my hands on one since my ears can't be trusted.

On my automated system I use Zara Radio Free and MP3s, they range from 128kbps to 360kbps. I try to record at 360kbps but a lot of them were recorded at the default 128kbps by mistake, because the USB capture software I use defaults at 128kbps and I recorded 800 or so songs at the rating not realizing that mistake.

I have windows XP SP 3 installed on that computer that I use as my automated programming machine and a couple of older sound cards as the record and playback hardware. The same system that plays the music, feeds the mixer and from the mixer, the audio is fed into the DSP9024 and then feeds back into the same computer system via the record sound card and from there BUTT software feeds it out on the Internet and to the server that my stream is carried on.

Currently, the Behringer Untramizer Pro DSP-1424P and the Behringer Autocom Pro-XL MD1600 are not hooked up, because I do not quite know how to set them up to sound good.

I want to add that the connection from my VMX1000 mixer to the DSP9024 is done using balanced XLR connectors and HOT, COLD and SHEILD connections are connected to the 3 pins, so that connection is balanced.

From there, the computer only has a 3/8" TIP, RING, SHIELD jack, so the output of the DSP-9024 is hooked up as TIP, RING and SHIELD, TIP being LEFT, RING being RIGHT and SHIELD being audio ground.

The DSP-9024 operating level is set at -10dBv since it feeds a computer sound card and also an FM transmitter.

I have completely gone out of service on-line and on-air because this distortion issue has put a damper on my interest in continuing, I have to resolve this issue, before I can resume programming again.

Bruce.

Just shooting from the hip here -- is there ANY chance, that somewhere in your audio chain you have something out of phase? Anywhere where + and - are reversed? I've even see it happen where the occured INSIDE a piece of gear. 

The tipp off to me was your muddy, tunnel sounding, distant vocals. In a stereo recording as you probably know, the lead vocal is usually mixed to the center of the mix which creates the perfect storm for weird out of phase troubles. Perhaps in an XLR? Hard to say but that's what the symptoms sound like to me.

TIB

An issue with the XLR cable is very possible since I soldered the 3 conductor wire to the XLR connectors myself and have changed the connectors a few times to accommodate other setups I have tried like XLR on one end to RCA plug on the other.

So it is worth looking into with an VOM meter to see if I reversed two wires on one of the plugs that does not match the other end of the same cable.

I will post back my findings, if the MAIN OUTPUT cable of the mixer is wired wrong, that could very well effect how everything will sound.

I'll also double check the cable on the DSP9024's output as well, in short, I have caught myself wiring things wrong before, crossing the red and white wires on the connector so they don't match the opposite connector's wiring sequence. Perhaps, I did it again.

I know pin 1 is ground/shield

pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold, I have to check that is correct on both plugs.

Where I convert over to the RCA plugs, I have the Shield and Cold tied together on the shield and hot tied to the center pin of the RCA plugs and the same with the 3/8" 3 conductor plug, tip, ring & shield at the computer sound card, both cables shields are tied together, the left channel cable is tied to tip and the right channel is tied to the ring.

Let you know shortly.

Bruce. 

I took the screws out of the XLR connectors on the MAIN MIXER OUTPUT CABLE and the wires matched each end of the cable on how they are soldered to the plugs.

This cable is therefore, wired correctly.

Now I need to double check the cable that comes out of the DSP9024. As I said, this is the cable that feeds the computer's soundcard and also the RCA inputs of the transmitter.

What should be happing here is this, the cable starts off with an XLR connector on each cable, one cable is left, the other is right.

At this XLR connector is a two conductor female RCA plug, it is tied to hot and shield, an RCA cable connects to this, which runs to the record sound card of the automated computer, for the on-line feed, there is a duplicate set up on the other cable for the other stereo channel which feeds to the computer's 3/8" stereo jack input, red is right, white is left and then shield is of course ground. At the other end of this 3 conductor wire is a RCA plug, which feeds the transmitter's RCA jack input. The other cable duplicates this to feed the other stereo channel. I have the HOT and COLD wires tied together here on each plug and thus the HOT and COLD are then also tied on the 3/8" plug as well. The SHIELDs of both cables at the RCA plugs are tied to the ground side of the plug, this is repeated on the other cable as well for the other stereo channel into the stereo transmitter. Red is right and white is the left channel.

Bruce.

Okay here is the deal with this cable that comes out of the DSP9024.

The HOT wires are correct. For you to have a better understanding, I use both inputs and outputs of the DSP9024 for stereo sound, the left side is the left channel, the right side is the right channel.

Please try to follow what I have hooked up here, what I have for the left channel is also how I have it for the right channel, so that means this there is two separate 3 conductor cables one for each stereo channel.

This is how I have it wired.

HOT right and HOT left go to the hot side of the RCA plugs, two females and two males.

The COLD side of the XLRs are wired to the GROUND side of all the RCA jacks both male and females.

The SHIELD however of XLR connector pin #1 does not connect to the RCA plugs at all, it is separated from the cable at the transmitter RCA plugs as a chassis ground, it is wrapped around a screw on the transmitter's cabinet.

I believe the owners manual states that for connections like this, the COLD and SHIELD are supposed to be tied together to ground as one, therefore the RCA plug hot should be (+) and the RCA plug ground should be COLD+SHIELD. In small print it says "For unbalanced use, pin 1 (which is ground) and 3 (which is cold) have to be bridged" which they aren't.

Thoughts?

Bruce.

Mr Bruce said: I borrowed a set up someone else published on the web and made minor tweaks to it. I can publish what settings I currently have on the DSP9024 if needed.

I said:  That would be nice when you get time.

Lets hope the code works so the structure of the text below is readable. The problem is getting the columns to line up veriticaly and horizontally. It is hard for me to format it so it is easy to read, so you'll just have to follow the best as you can.

From the top left to right is each of the 6 channels, then down is the settings for each channel.

Since I can not control the layout and spacing as it will appear in your browser, I will separate each with a * the numbers after the # are the lowest and highest possible setting that can be set for that parameter.

**********************************************************************

Broadcast Settings N° 3 for ULTRA-DYNE PRO DSP 9024 Behringer

         band 1 *  band 2 * band 3 * band 4 * band 5 * band 6

low freq. 25 * 63 * 200 * 630 * 2000 * 6.3000 Khz

high freq. 63 * 200 * 630 * 2000 * 6300 * 15125 Khz

gate thr -75 * -75 * -75 * -75 * -75 * -75 *    #-96 to -25dB

gate hold 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 *      #20 - 720ms

gate rel. 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 *      #20 - 720ms

peak width 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 *       #0 - 150ms

out gain +0 dB * +0 dB * +0 dB * +0 dB * +0 dB * +0 dB  #-47 to +24dB

exciter drive — * — * — * 50 * 60 * 50 *      #0 - 100

comp. thr -28 * -28 * -27 * -32 * -35 * -36 *    #-70 to 0dB

comp. ratio 24 * 24 * 24 * 24 * 24 * 24 *      #1:1 to INF:0

comp. att. 60 * 50 * 35 * 10 * 5 * 0 *       #0ms to 255ms

comp. rel. 450 * 400 * 350 * 300 * 200 * 100 *     #50ms to 5000ms

comp. knee soft *  soft * soft * soft * soft * soft *    #Soft to Hard

in gain-         0 dB    #-24 to +24

tube type- 12AX7    #12AX7 12AY7 EL34 EL84

tube proc.- 12    #0 to 100

exciter proc.- 12    #0 to 100

odd/even- 3:17  #1/19 to 19/1

bandlink- off    #off/on

ultram. proc.-  30      #1-100

ultram. thr- 3 dB    #0-24dB

peak limit- -13dB   #-70 to +0

lim rel.- 0.75 s  #0.5 to 5 seconds

mode-  stereo

delay- 60 ms   #0 to 600ms    20 to 40 ensures best response

(see my second post below before responding)

Bruce.

The text above is a direct copy and paste from a text document I made of the on-line settings.

My actuall settings are a bit different.

I have hard knee on all 6 channels and my comp threshold is a bit different also.

ch 1 is -44

ch 2 is -39

ch 3 is -38

ch 4 is -38

ch 5 is -38

ch 6 is -42

all are in dB

Bruce.

No respones yet?

Anyways this is a link to locate the on-line stream for my station:

http://myradiostream.com/WFPN

Bruce.

I am currently adjusting the GATE THRESHOLD and COMPRESSOR THRESHOLDS a bit

The closer I go towards -96 the lesser the GATE THRESHOLD reduces. its range is range is -96 to -25dB

The closer I go towards 0 the lesser the COMPRESSOR reduces. Its range is -75 to OFF obviously the closer it gets to -75 the more reduction takes place.

What I am trying to do is see if I have too much limiting taking place reducing specific frequencies, also causing missing parts of the music.

Remember to keep in mind now that this DSP9024 is a six band compressor/limiter processor.

I am still trying to decide if I should turn off ZARA RADIO'S AGC.

Bruce. 

Thanks Mr. Bruce for doing this.  I will give it a try.

I will eventually get on track with the dsp1424p, but wanted to mention that if you are in meter mode and chose SINGLE, you can hit the B button and it will go from MASTER to channel 1, channel 2, channel 3 etc.

I am not sure if the third option which chooses the DSP9024's operating level makes any real big difference, but it is possible to alternate between DIGIMAX +4dBu or -10dBv on each of the 6 channels.

There is a default mode which is called DIGIMAX, the unit will almost also power up with that mode chosen, regardless if you saved it with +4dBu or -10dBv as the chosen mode, pressing C while in meter mode will change that.

I have changed my Gate Threshold settings for all 6 bands to these numbers

Band 1Band 2Band 3Band 4Band 5Band 6

-71**-80***-80-80-77***-70

These higher numbers cause the GATE not to reduce as much. -80 is the highest setting to which the GATE does absolutley nothing.

The PROCESS button has the 8 main sliders, which changes all parameters across the 6 bands at the same time.

Those are GATE THRESOLD, COMPRESSOR THRESHOLD, COMPRESSOR RATIO, COMPRESSOR ATTACK, UNTRAMIZER, OUT GAIN and LIMITER THRESHOLD.

No matter what I do, I truely think my audio quality stinks, there is something that's allowing the songs to sound over driven at one point, like as if I have an amplifier driving another ampilfier while the first amplifier is turned way up into over saturation, but at the same time the music level is below 0dB.

None of my songs all sound right when played against each other, one song sounds okay, the next sounds like 50% of its spectrum is missing, a hallow, almost like the recording studio placed the microphones outside the studio, which would resemble a large church cathedral, the music may sound okay, but the vocals can sound distant.

Bass can sometimes pump as well, beyond words...what a mess!

I have used MP3Gain on all my MP3s at the default 89.0dB, recorded all my MP3s at the same EQ settings when using my Behringer VMX1000 (The VMX1000 has 3 adjustable EQ settings on each channel) to transfer my vinyl records through a Roxio USB dongle (Came with Roxio's "Easy VHS to DVD software) onto my computer and saves them as 320kbps.

Music is difficult to record, often the vocals are easy to lose in the mix and some mids can tend to be distorted in the final result.

This is a very frustrating hobby for sure. I am not sure if 100% of the problems are my ear nerve damage issues, I wonder if I'd be having this many problems if I was still eighteen and had no hearing issues.

Bruce.

Okay it appears this topic is dead in the water and isn't going to generate any needed help.

So I'll abandon this topic since no one can offer any assistance, suggestions or help regarding my delemia.

If ONLY a broadcast engineer would be willing to help me without the damned commercial broadcast station fees they want me to pay them for a simple suggestion.

Part 15 isn't worth $5,000 for the first hour to have someone help you resolve audio chain issues. 🙁

Kind regards....

Bruce.