what is going on? why has no one who has had access to land just put a amt5000 over a full ground radial system and reported the results as best they can????
what is going on? why has no one who has had access to land just put a amt5000 over a full ground radial system and reported the results as best they can????
and how many of you have taken the time to file an FOIA request for that 22pg field manual????
if no one has why not???
such little effort for such a high return of investment of a little time!!!!
few years ago i don't believe this would have been the case.
the enthusiasm that many had for part 15 experimentation just a few years ago seems to be no more.
why?
there is still so much to experiment with. we need fcc acceptable techniques for suppressing ground lead radiation on elevated installs.
i know antenna tuner efficiency and final rf stage efficiency can still be improved more.
a groundless 3 meter antenna design such as the isotron or EH can be designed and published for part 15 am.
but it seems no one cares to think outside the box any more.
i think posts would pick up here if we would start experimenting with these projects!!!!
we still need to educate full power broadcasters on what part 15 is really capable of and work to get the fcc to also check out the complaining station who complains against a part 15 or another broadcaster. most of these full power licensed stations who complain against another broadcaster or part 15 station is most likely in violation of many rules themselves. they should not be allowed to get a pass on rules violations for turning in the competition.
Well, I haven't sought a FOIA request because I don't know what I would do with the information. I follow part 15 rules as best I can so what additional information about the field manuals would help?
I don't have the acreage you mentioned for open field testing so that is out. Also interests differ. My use of AM is for my own purposes around my home and yard. I can see where those who want to community cast would find the open field testing information helpful but I am not motivated to do so.
These are just my opinions from my perspective and I think you are asking good questions. There are probably others who are more motivated than I and that is fine but I wanted to give you my answers to your specific questions.
Neil
"they should not be allowed to get a pass on rules violations for turning in the competition."
Big banks and wall street execs should not get a freebie bail out pass or be put in front of the country's best interest either...but it went that way. WHY?
Get rid of the corrupt selfish so called "on your side" mis-leadership and things will probably change for real.
No one on the current slab will do a darn thing for anyone except themselves. Hope people realize that. If not and after it all is said and done and nothing changes for the better, remember this post right here and what was said and then go look in the mirror and see for yourselves where the problem really is.
RFB
the point of the FOIA is to flood them with requests for this document they don't seem to want to give up easily which i think would help people better stay within the rules and be legal while setting out to cover a neighborhood. it may even have guidelines listed in it for part 15.219 installs done from condos and apartments where no ground level access is available.
they can dismiss one or two requests but it gets a little more difficult to dismiss when you start getting 100 requests.
my request is granted ill pay whatever it is to get a copy and pdf it for the library here.
"I don't have the acreage you mentioned for open field testing so that is out. Also interests differ. My use of AM is for my own purposes around my home and yard. I can see where those who want to community cast would find the open field testing information helpful but I am not motivated to do so."
Not everyone will have the same intent with their Part 15 operations. Like you Neil, some just want to hear them old time radio shows coming out of the old vintage sitting in the corner once more. That's all well in good.
However, and whenever someone posts about conducting comparisons with transmitters, the "wire only" types seem to come out in droves and discourage any sort of real world comparisons to community casting no matter what. Lot's of negativity to conducting these tests over even a less than optimum outdoor setup and scream and shout bench test dummy load and nothing more.
I find that prospective to be not just limiting, but also suppressive.
If the Wright Brothers just went by their drawings and theories and not done real world testing of their airplane, someone else would have done the real world testing and the Wright Brothers would not be in history's place, someone else would be who took the initiative to "just do it".
Tesla, another inventor and real world experimenter, also did not let the leash of learning wrap around his neck or projects. Although there were plenty of others against him who even went as far as attempting to steal his ideas, even murder him for those ideas. He was like Cesar, enemies all around playing "I am your friend".
No doubt there are owners of this 5K thing who have an outdoor setup and have yet to put the transmitter on the outdoor system. Probably because of being "scared off course" by reading these negative posts here, and probably elsewhere, being scared with rule book thumping and CAD/NEC praise to failure wont work nonsense.
Anyone want to wonder why there are no more abundant electronic hobby stores or why places like Radio Shack no longer has row after row of individual parts and pieces they used to carry? Anyone wonder why there is so little interest anymore in ANY sort of radio? Even you hams, and don't live in denial, the number of new ham radio operators has decreased 10 fold over the last 20 years alone.
Population has become too comfortable in the idea that the wally world shelf will have everything I need or want, and big brother will stretch their fake wing of protection over them and keep them safe. What a laugh!
Well just like how we are seeing the designed destruction of this nation's economic system and infrastructure, all being outsourced to foreigners, the corrupt crooked wings that hold up the fake bird have to flap in sync in order to make that fake bird of liberty fly.
Left, right, there is no such thing. Red, blue, there is no such thing. Conservative, liberal, there is no such thing.
I've never seen a bird fly with wings flapping out of uniformity and against each other.
RFB
if i had a car battery or the cash to buy a new one me and my YL would go to a local park and lay it out with radials and i would do a side by side comparison between the rangemaster, sstran, and talking house/iAM to which i own all three.
i even know where there is a public park field but she isn't going to let me hook an inverter to the car or borrow the battery from the car and i have no cash for one so for me it's out. but i know there are quite a few here who have an sstran amt5k, and the property in close proximity to a utility and don't have to worry running the risk of being interrogated by 50 for doing something they don't understand in a public park because Joe/Jane citizen got overly nervous and calls in a suspicious persons complaint
We can benefit from the leadership you provide, kc8gpd, and I very much appreciate the effort you have taken to get things moving on several fronts. The antenna and ground problem for upstairs broadcasters are unique to part 15 and deserve intelligent, legally defined solutions.
I cannot file a FOIA request because I have no knowledge of the documents being sought. That is where you have an advantage, because you are aware of publications that evidently have been removed from circulation, based on what you say.
I will be building a full scale outdoor antenna with radials, but the project will move slowly as I find time to devote to it. An AMT5000 will go out there. I will be keeping my present AMT5000 working on the Wintenna, and plan to have remote control so I can switch transmitters at will. That will give one very definite point of comparison, and we all expect the outdoor installation to reach much farther.
I plan a second out door tower in a front yard setting, which for now is destined to be an AMT3000, also switchable with the present indoor AMT3000.
I have certainly tried very hard to interest many people in part 15, and no one much cares, like RFB said.... well he said something about people being all wrapped up in their little text gizmos and cell phones and have no sense for radio broadcasting.
As far as licensed broadcasters are concerned, I have to admire business people who can afford to stay in business when their product is boredom. It's an amazing accomplishment.
here is a repost of the template i posted here
http://www.part15.us/node/3544 i can't simplify it any more than that for you.
you can recycle and reuse it verbatim.
here is url to fcc foia request site...
http://transition.fcc.gov/foia/#reqform
here is what i put in fields. this is a template. the questions with the answer for each question. the * are the questions the " are the answers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q:
*7. Description of Records Requested
Identify the records as clearly and specifically as possible. Please provide sufficient information which would be helpful in identifying and locating the requested records, such as document title, etc.*
A:
"FCC field operations manuals, field directives and bulletins directly related to field inspectors dealing with operators using Part 15 devices in the AM and FM broadcast bands."
Q:
*8. Key Words or Phrases
Please be as complete as possible. Include information such as subject, publication date(s), office/bureau, docket number(s), and any other information which can help to identify the document(s) you are requesting*
A:
"field manual used as a guide when dealing with low power unlicensed part 15 stations on the am medium wave and fm vhf broadcast bands"
Q:
*11. Additional Information and/or Comments****
A:
"will be used as a guide to aid in better complying with the rules and regulations contained within CFR 47 part(s)15.219(a)(b), 15.239, 15.221, 15.209, 15.217, 15.225"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I highly recommend everyone involved in part 15 am/fm broadcasting put in a FOIA request and use this as a template. if they get flooded with requests it may push them to release the manual or possibly one request may get past the censors and make it through. i recommend doing this no matter if your interest is just backyard broadcaster to your radios or covering a community. the more requests the more likely to get the documents and it will help those who want to do more with there art 15's.
we are about community here and sticking together and experimentation. that is why this site was started. doing things in benefit to the whole community whether the outcome benefited are particular interest in a certain aspect of the hobby or it didn't we did things and experimented to help each other out and push for better more useful part 15 technology. seems that original spirit has been lost or forgotten in the last year or two.
it seems the KENC loss is where it went into full steam ahead. i know to with who the original seeds of this was planted but he just loosened the cap i think KENC NOV popped the cap all the way off and took the fun out of the hobby for many.
It's something like the 80/20 rule: 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. In Part 15, it's probably more like a ratio of 99/1, at least as far as developing new thins is concerned.
If Robert wants something done, Robert will most likely have to do it himself. Filing an FIOA is already a great thing that he did. Bill DeFelice had filed something similar previously, with not a lot to show for it. Now Robert wants the FCC to be swamped with a lot of similar requests. Not likely to happen, because Robert has already done all HE can do, and he does not have control over what other people do. He is not a "community organizer." Also community organizers don't actually do anything THEMSELVES.
Robert has equipped himself with an FIM and other test equipment, as well as considerable knowledge, for making a direct comparison between the AMT-5000 and the Rangemaster. If this comparison ever actually gets done, it will be because ROBERT did it, and not because someone else was inspired to do it. That's just the way the world works.
if i had a house (or even a trailer in a TP) and a permanent ground radial jig laid out in the backyard i could do good comparison on them, you can bet it would have been done the moment (that night, next day latest) the fim arrived.
i'm in an 1200sq/ft apartment with two other people and makes things more difficult to do as i have to work around them as opposed just go into back yard..
It seems my post above may have been construed by some as me being in this only for myself and this is not what I wish to convey. If those remarks were not directed at me it surely wasn't clear that this was the case.
If I only care about myself then:
How about my posts regarding the Ramsey AM-25 power input and efficiency?
How about my posts on how to modify the AM-25 to get higher efficiency and how to operate it within legal limits?
How about my posts on my development of a AM transmitter with over 85% efficiency?
How about my posts on calculated FM transmitter power used which resulted in NOUOs?
How about my posts on how to measure the input power for the AMT-3000?
How about my math analysis of the AMT-3000 antenna tuning system?
How about my post on how to build a loading coil coaxial to the antenna?
How about the length technical discussion Carl and I had on the modulation methods to be used in the AM-25?
How about my input to the design of Carl's "big talker".
How about my posts on how to use a trapezoidal pattern to assess an AM transmitter?
And so on.
I would have hoped these efforts would have been seen as contributions to the art of part 15 which others can use or learn from to achieve their goals despite my personal objective to cover my house and yard with a signal.
If I sound a bit offended and defensive it is because I am.
I also applaud Robert's efforts at experimenting and look forward to his continuing reports.
Neil
Even you hams, and don't live in denial, the number of new ham radio operators has decreased 10 fold over the last 20 years alone.
Not true.
RFB wrote - "Anyone want to wonder why there are no more abundant electronic hobby stores or why places like Radio Shack no longer has row after row of individual parts and pieces they used to carry?"
It would be my opinion that the sale of electronic parts has been withdrawn from the general public as part of an overall scheme to convert us from a "D.I.Y." society to a throw-away and replace society.
The farther back you go in time the more repairable, serviceable and experimentable the electronic products were. Service shops were able to run respectable businesses.
But the electronics now, for the most part, are nano-technical and mostly unservicable. We are left with the choice of throwing things away and buying new ones, if the item is still available.
It is very probable that this situation, which is of benefit to the corporate mega-giants who sell new stuff, has a negative impact on technical education in schools where it is no longer practical to teach basic electronics, because of dwindling career opportunities.
We are left, finally, with a fabulous few products who continue the cherished art of kits and serviceable equipment. But the general public is disconnected from this way of life and can only blink when the subject comes up.
if i had a time machine i'd go back to the 20's, 30's or 40's. i think this was the prime time for experimenters and engineers