• Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar
Part15

Part15

License Free, legal, low-power radio broadcasting

  • About Us
  • Forums
  • Resources
  • Members
  • Contact Us
  • Log In
Forums
Main Category
temp
15.219 and 15.239 d...
 
Notifications
Clear all

15.219 and 15.239 do not specify the modulation scheme to use

 
temp
Last Post by Anonymous 11 years ago
13 Posts
2 Users
0 Reactions
755 Views
RSS
 stvcmty
(@stvcmty)
Posts: 34
Estimable Member Registered
Topic starter
 

If I amplitude modulated a signal on a carrier between 88 and 108MHz, what would a typical FM radio do when tuned to that signal?

 

If I frequency modulated a signal on a carrier between 530 and 1700kHz, what would a typical AM radio do when tuned to that signal?

 

If I single side band modulated (with or without a suppressed carrier, upper or lower sideband) a signal on a carrier between 530 and 1700kHz, what would a typical AM radio do when tuned to that signal?

 

If I single side band modulated (with or without a suppressed carrier, upper or lower sideband) a signal on a carrier between 88 and 108MHz, what would a typical FM radio do when tuned to that signal?

 

In terms of range per watt, depending on local noise, SSB > AM > FM.  15.219 and 15.239 do not specify the modulation scheme to use.  It seems like there should be some way to change the modulation to get better range out of the allowed field strength/power while being compatible with some radios out there.

 

If someone used single side band, suppressed carrier on a clear frequency in the AM expanded band with a 15.219 complaint setup and someone else was using a SDR and a really good antenna to receive it the range would beat an AM signal to even the best car radio.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 8:39 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

You cannot listen to an SSB signal, suppressed carrier, unless you introduce said carrier on your receiver.  Some portable radios that also have shortwave bands can receive SSB signals in the X Band, but they certainly are not pervasive.  Otherwise, all you will hear is the typical duck quacking sound that SSB makes.  There IS a way to receive SSB with 2 radios tuned to nearly the same frequency (one listens, one introduces the carrier) but I doubt that many would accept needing 2 radios to just listen to a single signal.

The problem as I see it is how to legally transmit an SSB signal in the X Band.  I suppose you could find an amateur radio QRP SSB transmitter kit and modify it for transmitting just below the 160 meter band, also making sure that the input power to the final stage is 100mw or lower.

The more I think about it, the more interesting this experiment sounds.  I wonder just what the range could be on such a device, particularly to a good shortwave receiver.

Overall, though, I think it would be easier to experiment on the 13.560 ISM frequency.  Easier to find potential transmitters, and potentially much longer range.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 10:37 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

To add to the list, I have wondered if you could amplitude modulate and frequency modulate the same carrier so as to send two separate programs to two different kinds of radio.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 11:17 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

I would expect the fm demodulation would suffer when the transmitted carrier was at minimum amplitude during the am modulation process ?

Paul.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 12:47 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

Yesterday while doing some Shortwave scanning from 2Mhz to 29.995 I found that 3Mhz was alive, 71000 Mhz and the high end had amateur Radio activity (Still have to get that 9 volt for the BFO for the Grundig). The moral was that I got around 13.560 Mhz and I've heard data carrier there. There is some shortwave activity I did hear through the 13 Mhz band. Is 13.560 the only legal frequency for Shortwave ir is that just the official frequency of the Big Talker Shortwave Transmitter? We may be on to something here. I've checked that frequency for any sign of a Shortwave station running part 15 just to see if I could hear a distant station under the right conditions.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 12:49 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

Just an opinion and not to stir anything up here remember I'm calming down.  I'd think the FCC though they don't state it would rather we use the modulation indended for the band we broadcast on.  And intended for us to keep using certified AM or FM transmitters not counting kits.  But opinions may very.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 1:43 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

The reason 13.560 MHz is talked about is because it allows more field strength than any other shortwave frequency for Part 15.

There are several other SW frequencies that allow slightly less field strength, and the whole SW band from 1710 kHz to 30MHz is open, but at a power level so low it would be meaningless to try it.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 2:03 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

You could amplitude and frequency modulate the same signal, simple VFO transmitters do, like the old phono oscillators. Thinking about it, if the signal is strong enough at the receiver, and you don't modulate the AM part fully, the FM signal should work well, but probably not the AM.

We were talking about AM stereo, that uses phase modulation of the station's carrier for the L-R difference signal, so that's a sort of AM-FM signal it would seem.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 2:49 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

The glorious thing about part 15 is we aren't limited in what mode we can broadcast in.

Remember Part 15 was and is for experimentation. I have always wondered if FM would work well in the medium wave band. FM seems more resiliant to noise, but I am unsure if this is just a characteristic of VHF vs. MW. That being said the NFM broadcasts in the 20mhz area used for STLs sounds fantastic.

That being said, heres the answers to your questions:

SSB on AM reciever: The Classic "wah wah quack"

FM on AM Reciever: Garbled mess, think the Talking House Transmitter's garble on the fringe.

AM on FM Reciever: White Noise.

Basically on an FM reciever anything recieved not in frequency modulation will just come out as white noise.

"In terms of range per watt, depending on local noise, SSB > AM > FM."

Actually I'd put this, SSB > Narrow FM > FM > AM. Although in a zero noise environment AM would likely come ahead. Also some law enforecement swear NFM is no where near as good as Wideband FM.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 3:10 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

Mighty 1650 I remember around the hear 2001 I did mess with my uniden scanner and was listening on AM. I got just around 25 Mhz and I heard what sounded like FM so I switch modes and vala I heard an STL from WFLA in Tampa, Florida. It was skipping in really nice in Lansing, Michigan. I listened for quite sometime before the signal faded. I picked up some other STL's in Florida and was amazed they used those frequencies. The sound was great and enjoyable in fact. It sounded like 29 FM 10 meter ham. It would be interesting to do NFM on the AM band to see what the range would be like and rather we could get through the noise floor with it. Problem is I don't have a way to actually receive an FM carrier down there. The Grundig has an IF output so there may be a way to do it with that.


 
Posted : 06/11/2015 3:28 pm
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

From Florida Low Power Radio: 25,870 (LPR) WFLA, Tampa; inactive, not heard since late 2002 or early January, 2003.  This remote broadcast cue unit operat(ed) 24 hours-a-day, relaying News Radio 970 WFLA (970 kHz) audio in real time (without the seven seconds delay on locally-originated programming). The station occasionally boasted this as their "shortwave" frequency--and indeed it is sometimes heard worldwide--E-skip and maximum usable frequency allowing. Readily QSL's as well. Mode is narrow band FM.


 
Posted : 10/11/2015 7:43 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

KLDE out of San Angelo/Eldorado Texas also broadcasts its oldies format 24/7 on 25.910 kHz in FM mode.


 
Posted : 10/11/2015 9:13 am
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
 

I did pick two frequencies in the 25 Mhz area and now I remember that was the frequency of WFLA.  It came in clear.  Tuning up towards the channel jumpers who went below channel 1 on CB and who had the Galaxy exports that could transmit on FM I heard another station as well.  Again I was amazed at how clear the signal was and could listen for quite some time.


 
Posted : 10/11/2015 2:14 pm
Forum Jump:
  Previous Topic
Next Topic  
Share:
Forum Information
Recent Posts
Unread Posts
Tags
  • 13 Forums
  • 7,740 Topics
  • 63.5 K Posts
  • 29 Online
  • 2,249 Members
Our newest member: electronic
Latest Post: 7 Beatles Misheard Lyrics
Forum Icons: Forum contains no unread posts Forum contains unread posts
Topic Icons: Not Replied Replied Active Hot Sticky Unapproved Solved Private Closed

Primary Sidebar

Online Members

 No online members at the moment

Recent Posts

  • Mark

    RE: 7 Beatles Misheard Lyrics

    Many songs have I heard something other than the actual...

    By Mark , 1 day ago

  • Mark

    RE: 7 Beatles Misheard Lyrics

    Have you heard this?

    By Mark , 1 day ago

  • RichPowers

    Unique AM Transmitter

    Here one I've not seen before. they're $69.50 on eBay, ...

    By RichPowers , 1 day ago

  • RichPowers

    7 Beatles Misheard Lyrics

    As far as I'm concerned this article is ridiculous, I d...

    By RichPowers , 2 days ago

  • Mark

    RE: Newly Discovered Robert Johnson in Stunning Clarity

    @richpowers Sounds good.

    By Mark , 2 days ago

Recent Topics

  • RichPowers

    Unique AM Transmitter

    By RichPowers 1 day ago

  • RichPowers

    7 Beatles Misheard Lyrics

    By RichPowers 2 days ago

  • RichPowers

    Public Domain Feature Films about Radio

    By RichPowers 3 days ago

  • RichPowers

    Speed Limit 17.3mph

    By RichPowers 5 days ago

  • ArtisanRadio

    Artisan Radio Pivots Again

    By ArtisanRadio 5 days ago

Topic Tags

  • Carl Blare3
  • KDX RADIO3
  • WINDOZE3
  • Transmitter2
  • Radio Phvern2
  • station upgrade2
  • archive.org2
  • playlist2
  • Zara Radio2
  • Carrier Current1
View all tags (74)

Copyright © 2026 · Part15.org · Log in

‹›×

    ‹›×