Yo know what's crazy? You can broadcast to the whole world on your computer, but your not allowed to broadcast on the dying AM Band directly to people in your own neighborhood. ..
..except with a BETS-1 transmitter that doesn't wven exist.
@richpowers A bounded area is implicitly private property - a mall, a parking lot, things like that. It's not defined in the RSS-123 rules.
RSS-123 allows the use of up to 1 watt to cover that bounded area, as long as your field strength at the boundaries is 100uv or less. And, of course, you have that RSS-123 license. They check the frequency you want to transmit on during the licensing process to ensure that you will not interfere with any other licensed service (and there's a higher probability that you will by using that higher power allowed).
The two tiered license free service arose directly from the creation of the CRTC, which regulates the content of broadcasting. And that body arose out of the perceived need to push Canadian content on Canadian radio stations (as well as TV stations, and soon to be the Internet).
@Richpowers
There's one thing that differs with RSS-123 as opposed to the unlicensed categories is even with the license it is for "events" that have a certain date time and location. With the application you need to specify when, where, why etc.
Rich said:You know what's crazy? You can broadcast to the whole world on your computer, but your not allowed to broadcast on the dying AM Band directly to people in your own neighborhood. ..
..except with a BETS-1 transmitter that doesn't even exist.
That's the fault of manufacturers that it doesn't exist. And that is my defence if I ever get inspected....no BETS AM transmitters, it's for myself, it's a legal approved product and if I can't use it in my own home or property where can I? I mean if you can't broadcast that leaves very little else you can do with it. Even in a parking lot it is still targeting the public with a broadcast band radio for anyone to tune in.
But I can always go to FM if it comes to that where there's BETS transmitters.
I still will approach Procaster about BETS. All I know is, the guy in Winnipeg was cited for broadcasting without a BETS transmitter. That was the issue.
Ok... I don't know what to think, but after asking the question at several times and at different angles, google ai absolutely insist every single time that the Chez Procaster is a BETS-1 certified transmitter.
So.. what the hell? what gives? It says it is not a RSS-210 device but a BETS-1...
This document is the Procaster AM Industry Canada Certification. I see no mention of RSS-210 nor BETS in it, so will you look at it and explain specifically which certification the Procaster carries?
https://www.chezradio.com/_files/ugd/433320_43580c5e8859493d9d961e7ff94ceb7e.pdf
The Procaster AM holds a Technical Acceptance Certificate (TAC) from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada (ISED), formerly Industry Canada, confirming its compliance for use as a licence-exempt, low-power announce transmitter. This certification indicates the device meets the specific technical standards outlined in the BETS-1 document for operation in the AM band. Read the full BETS-1 document at ised-isde.canada.ca.
An Industry Canada Certification document, specifically a Technical Acceptance Certificate (TAC), confirms that radio equipment meets required technical standards based on testing. The document does not explicitly name standards like BETS-1 or RSS-210 but lists the technical limits met and operating rules, with broadcasting equipment being governed by BETS standards, not RSS standards like RSS-210. Read more at ised-isde.canada.ca.
Nevermind, I'm an idiot and I'm apparently blind.. Now I see it clear as day in the document itself, don't know how I missed it. It clearly says it's certified RSS-210
I need to leave the ai crap alone, it's wrong time and time again, it's just so easy, such a quick way to find out things.. only it's often wrong. I wonder how many people who use it everyday presume it's answers are even semi-reliable?
How embarrassing
@richpowers Rich, AI made a mistake! Don't forget there is the newer Procaster FM which is BETS certified! There is now two Procasters, FM and the AM one which you are most familiar with when you think Procaster. AI isn't necessarily wrong, It had most of the information right with your discussion. All AI didn't differentiate was the two Procasters. The Procaster AM is only RSS-210. The Procaster FM is BETS-1.
You said.....
"The Procaster AM holds a Technical Acceptance Certificate (TAC) from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada (ISED), formerly Industry Canada, confirming its compliance for use as a licence-exempt, low-power announce transmitter. This certification indicates the device meets the specific technical standards outlined in the BETS-1 document for operation in the AM band. Read the full BETS-1 document at ised-isde.canada.ca".
No, you saw it wrong....The Procaster AM is not BETS. But I think you then saw the certification document as RSS-210.
So now you see why the guy in Winnipeg had to shut down as he was a business setting up Procaster AMs in different locations considered broadcasting. That's what the letter he got from ISED showed.
Me I have a good defence(I hope). I am a private individual, using a certified unlicensed Procaster AM intended for the commercial AM band license free, from my own home for myself and a couple of listeners that know about it. There are no BETS AM transmitters, FM space is limited, I am not openly advertising it, it's for myself, and, basically, if I can't use this in my own home or property or I can't broadcast, how else can this be used? And if worse comes to worse I have two FM BETS transmitters here and I can go on FM, which I can switch to any time.
It's nice you are learning about the Canadian and a bit stupid rules! We in Canada had to learn the FCC rules by reading them as most forums like this one and it members are based in the USA/FCC.
@mark Yeah I just spun off in a gust of wind. Looking directly at the document itself and the text contained combined with the Winnipeg story creates a clearer perspective.
It's still all a very peculiar scenario for an AM RSS-10 device which you are prohibited from "broadcasting" with, has more range potential than a AM BETS-10 device that you're permitted to broadcast with.
Yeah, what a mess. Glad mine is in the 15.219 world, yours is a little monster
Here's are what I find to be the most interesting excerpts from Canada's Spectrum and Telecommunications Management RIC-40 Radiocommunication Information Circular:
Frequently Asked Questions on Low-Power FM Broadcasting https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectrum-management-telecommunications/sites/default/files/attachments/2022/ric40e.pdf
Q. I heard that certain 5 W FM broadcasting transmitters are exempted from Industry Canada's authorization and CRTC 's licensing requirements. Is that right?
A. Industry Canada has not exempted any 5 W FM broadcasting transmitters from authorization requirements, regardless of the equipment manufacturer, purpose of the transmission or the affiliation of the operator. The FM broadcasting radio frequency spectrum, at 88-108 MHz , .... ..Industry Canada has no plan to exempt 5 W FM broadcasting transmitters from authorization requirements, as such an exemption would open the FM broadcasting band to all users, resulting in substantial increase in interference.. ... ..
The CRTC has exempted from licensing certain low-power AM and FM broadcasting undertakings, for example, Limited Duration Special Event Facilitating Undertakings and Public Emergency Radio Undertakings, provided that certain conditions are met. For information on the CRTC Exemption Orders, please contact your local CRTC office or visit the CRTC 's website at https://www.crtc.gc.ca.
It should be noted that because Industry Canada and the CRTC are responsible for different aspects of broadcasting, the two organizations have each established exemption criteria in their respective area of responsibility. A broadcasting transmitter exempted from the CRTC 's licensing is not automatically exempted from Industry Canada's authorization requirement and vice versa. A VLPFM or LPFM exempted from licensing requirement from the CRTC would still be required to meet all authorization requirements from Industry Canada.
Q. Are there any FM broadcasting transmitters exempted from Industry Canada's authorization requirements?
A. Currently, the only FM broadcasting transmitters that Industry Canada exempts from authorization are those that meet the requirement of Broadcasting Equipment Technical Standards 1 ( BETS -1). These transmitters, commonly called Low-Power Announcement Radios or alternatively Real Estate Radios, have very small coverage areas. According to BETS -1,
"The maximum power output of the transmitter into its antenna, with no modulation, shall not produce a field strength level of more than 100 μV/m as measured at a distance of 30 metres,"
which corresponds to a transmitter power output of less than 1 microwatt ( μW ). CRTC licence exempt or not, any broadcasting transmitter not meeting the technical standard specified in BETS -1 will require authorization from Industry Canada for its installation and operation, regardless of the identity of the equipment manufacturer, purpose of the broadcasting transmission or the affiliation of the operator.
Q. What is Industry Canada's view on using LPFM for emergency broadcasting purposes?
A. As the radio frequency spectrum manager, Industry Canada has a role to play in facilitating emergency telecommunications and is prepared to work with emergency organizations during an emergency to streamline authorization and give access to radio spectrum as soon as possible. However, Industry Canada is not prepared to give blanket exemption to VLPFM or LPFM broadcasting transmitters for the reasons given above. The conditions under which public emergency radio undertakings are exempted by the CRTC are listed in the CRTC Broadcasting Exemption Order 2000-11. ..... .... ...
Q. Is it possible to network several LPFM s on the same frequency to serve a larger area?
A. In general, networking several LPFM broadcasting transmitters together will not increase effective coverage. The receivers, bombarded by signals from the multiple FM transmitters, will be unlikely to lock in on a usable signal, and will produce poor quality audio. Currently, only digital radio broadcasting ( DRB ) is designed to operate multiple transmitters on a single frequency, called a single-frequency network ( SFN ), to increase the effective coverage area.
Q. The CRTC has exempted several types of LPFM stations. Should I expect any technical problem in implementing LPFM stations in urban areas?
A. In addition to the CRTC -licensed LPFM stations, the CRTC Exemption Orders for several types of LPFM stations have generated considerable interest among clients to provide LPFM service to rural areas, as well as urban centres. Applicants wishing to serve urban centres have to take into account that the FM broadcasting spectrum is congested in most Canadian urban centres, and should expect a more complex application filing process, as well as longer processing time. ... ...In rural areas, it is much easier .. .and the application process is straightforward and simple. In urban centres, it is difficult to find useable FM frequencies, ... .. The applicant must therefore expect to retain a consultant and coordinate with affected stations, incurring considerable time and expense.
Accordingly, Industry Canada recommends that applicants for LPFM stations in congested areas consider alternative solutions such as low-power AM stations, programming agreements with existing stations, use of FM subcarriers, etc.
Q. Can I operate a transmitter in the FM band for other usage than broadcasting?
A. Yes. Low-power transmitters certified under RSS -123, such as wireless microphones and FM transmitters for public information services, may be authorized with a radio licence under the operating conditions described in CPC -2-1-11.
Other FM transmitters certified under RSS -210 and RSS -310, such as personal radiocommunication transmitters providing short range transmissions to nearby FM receivers (e.g. FM transmitters integrated in MP3 players) may be used without a radio licence.
For additional information on the Department's rules on LPFM s, please contact your local Industry Canada district office. Publications on Industry Canada's rules and the database for broadcasting stations in Canada can be downloaded from the following website: http://www.ic.gc.ca/spectrum.
Note in the last FAQ the distinction it makes with 210 in regard to 123:
Other FM transmitters certified under RSS -210 such as transmitters providing short range transmissions to nearby FM receivers may be used without a radio licence.
Also note however that I ommitted their example from the quote. "(e.g. FM transmitters integrated in MP3 players)"
But it's clearly not limited to MP3 transmitters, and even if it were, our stations are essentially MP3 player transmitters anyway!
I'm being partially being facetious of course, but point being is that it does not really exclude anything, it just provides MP3 players as an example. And those MP3 transmitters appear clearly allowed to "broadcast".
@richpowers Remember whether you re broadcasting or not is going back to the "imaginary restriction"(I like that term). It is intent. That word is in writing when defining broadcasting.
With a MP3 transmitter the "intent" is not everyone but yourself, to your own receiver which is a radio, but your own radio, in your car or home.
Yes I know, you are still broadcasting but we are not going by the dictionary here, we are going by the CRTC's definition of broadcasting.
I like the statement "you are still broadcasting but we are not going by the dictionary here, we are going by the CRTC's definition of broadcasting."
A MP3 transmitter certified under RSS-210 in the FM Band is permitted a 100mw input and a 10 ft antenna... Is this not correct?
Nope.. that's not what I meant.
I meant AM of course. There are AM MP3 players, right?
Other FM transmitters certified under RSS -210 such as transmitters providing short range transmissions to nearby FM receivers may be used without a radio licence, provided no one else is listening.
Going back earlier in the document:
"The CRTC has exempted from licensing certain low-power AM and FM broadcasting undertakings, for example, Limited Duration Special Event Facilitating Undertakings and Public Emergency Radio Undertakings, provided that certain conditions are met. "
Now does that not clearly state that those above scenarios are exempt from any form of licencing?. ... Right, but that would only be with BETS certified transmitters.. that's apparently the "certain condition" that has to be met.
Don't mind me, just talking to myself. Canadian rules can make you do that.
@richpowers Low power is not BETS. That's another category. Just like low power in the USA is not part 15.
@richpowers No there are not any AM MP3 players or "car" transmitters. All FM.
I started a new topic and mentioned something about MP3 transmitters.