Canada's music licensing regulatory body, SOCAN, has a publicly accessible database wherein you can supposedly find all music works that are still within copyright (in Canada).
I've been using that database occasionally to determine the copyright status of various works, as I plan on broadcasting only public domain material, including music.
One of the shows I'm going to have is The Roaring Twenties (and some Teens Too). I've been going through the music lists for each year to find all the public domain songs.
One of the things that has puzzled me is that some songs that are obviously in the public domain, i.e., all their composers passed away well before 1971, which is the cutoff before copyright was extended an additional 20 years, are listed in that database.
For example, Walter Donaldson and Gus Kahn, a popular songwriting team at the time, passed away in 1947 and and 1941 respectively. Music written by them would have gone in the public domain in 1998 (end of calendar year 1947 plus 50 years). And yet a lot of their songs are listed in the SOCAN database.
I believe I've finally figured out what is happening. Usually, these entries also include a music company, such as EMI. I believe that at some point, while the music was still in copyright, these companies purchased some or all rights to the original songs, and then republished them, copyrighting the new publication.
That does not change the copyright status of the original publication, which was used by by the performers during the 1920s and earlier.
At best, the copyright notice in the SOCAN database is misleading. You cannot copyright a derivative work unless you make substantial changes to the original work, and it's not clear that that was done. And in any event, you cannot change the copyright status of the underlying work upon which you derived the new work. Anyone looking at that database would just see the copyright notice, and not go any further. These entries really makes all entries in the database suspect.
The original music is indeed in the public domain for those composers.
It's similar with books that are in the public domain, such as those by Charles Dickens. Someone today could take the public domain text, potentially rework it (because you can do anything you want to public domain material), publish it and then copyright the publication. The copyright status of the original underlying book text does not change.
The ONLY way to determine copyright status of original music today for that period is to determine the authors, and then find out the dates that they passed away. If all of those dates are 1971 or prior, then the music (again, the original, published music) is in the public domain. If not, then the earliest date for their slipping into the public domain would be 2042 (life plus 70 years).
The fact that there is a listing (or even no listing) in the SOCAN database is virtually meaningless.
I generally most often like to browse the Citizen DJ site collection/database for public domain content, listen or download the original recordings https://citizen-dj.labs.loc.gov/guide/
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Copyright status of audio on Citizen DJNote that all the audio that you find on the Citizen DJ website is free to use from a copyright perspective. And all audio found on this website should contain a statement of how you can use it and why it is free to use. This guide talks generally about audio material that you may find outside of Citizen DJ, on main the Library of Congress website, and beyond. Additionally, the ethics of digital sampling is relevant to all audio material include those found on Citizen DJ.
Just now asked Google AI if that applies to Canada too, and it's reply is interesting....
That's not what I meant, what I want to know is if all the recordings there are confirmed public domain in Canada as well as in the US?No, they are not universally "confirmed" public domain in Canada, as Canadian copyright laws differ from U.S. laws. While Citizen DJ states its sounds are free for users outside the U.S. to use, this is based on U.S. legal standards and specific permissions granted to the Library of Congress.
Key jurisdictional differences to consider:
U.S. Government Works: Works created by the U.S. federal government (like the 1942 "Canada" film) are public domain in the U.S., but may still be protected by copyright in Canada under the principle of national treatment.
Duration of Protection: While both countries now largely use a "life of the author plus 70 years" rule, Canada's recent extension (effective Dec 30, 2022) was not retroactive. Works already in the Canadian public domain stay there, while others may have different expiration dates than in the U.S..
Moral Rights: Canada has much stronger moral rights that protect the integrity of a work and the author's reputation, even for public domain materials, which are not as broadly recognized in the U.S..
Specific Permissions: Some Citizen DJ collections (like the MusicBox Project) are free because the original owners relinquished their rights to the Library of Congress.
If you'd like, I can help you research a specific recording from the collection to see if it meets the Canadian public domain criteria or explain how Fair Dealing in Canada compares to Fair Use in the U.S
Along the same topic vein, as you know, I like recreating these songs with ai, but when prompting ai with the original lyrics of public domain songs that had also happened to later become a hit by a famous artist cover, it gets flagged as copyrighted. For example, songs such as Georgia on my Mind, Singin' in the Rain, It had to Be you, Ain’t misbehavin’,Rockin' Robin, Everybody Loves my Baby, House of the Rising Sun, etc. etc.
All those songs had also became later hits, but all certifiably in public domain, as are in many cases not only the lyrics but the arrangements as well. Yet the only sure way you can get ai to accept the lyrics is to replace words or rephrasing of lines.
It could be that the AI is getting mixed up between the original music, say, back in 1929, with one of the many derivative works that may have been copyrighted later (much as what I saw in the SOCAN database).
U.S. copyright law is indeed quite different than in Canada. For the music and performances I'm dealing with (i.e., early 20th century), it's especially complicated. Performances weren't even considered until the Music Freedom Act, and the term is 100 years. That's why all records released 1925 and earlier are in the public domain.
Music, films, books, etc. had to have their copyright registered for an initial 28 year term, and have a proper copyright notice attached. If the latter was missing, or not correctly displayed, the work entered the public domain immediately. An additional 28 year renewal could be applied for, bringing the total to 56 years.
The laws were changed in the late 1970s to be similar to Canada, life +. The catch was that all works under copyright before 1976 had to register to receive the additional time. If they were not registered, they would fall out of copyright at the end of their original copyright period. After the revised copyright laws went into effect, no registration was required.
The Music Freedom Act attempted to bring some simplicity into the equation. Basically, it states that, outside of these considerations, music performances have a copyright period of 100 years. So all performances (i.e., records), as I stated previously, released in 1925 and earlier are in the public domain.
The music itself (which is basically printed sheet music), books, films, etc. have a copyright period of a maximum of 95 years. So all of these published in 1930 or earlier are in the public domain.
There may be, of course, other, later works that are in the public domain because of not registering, not renewing, incorrect display of the copyright notice, etc.
Complicated stuff. And not easy to track down all the information to determine copyright status.
Complicated stuff. And not easy to track down all the information to determine copyright status.
Exactly, that's why I like Citizen DJ ( https://citizen-dj.labs.loc.gov) everything there has already been researched. Eliminates a lot of headache.
Too bad that Canada doesn't have something similar.
@artisan-radio Well it does (seems to me) provide a much better starting point at least, even though not everything on Citizen DJ may not also be royalty-free in Canada too. But it seems likely most of the database applies in Canada and the U.S. alike.
The Citizen DJ organization should consider adding Canadian info to their database, they probably never thought or considered including Canadian data as well.
Of note, Canadian media has featured the Citizen DJ database before, CBC/Radio-Canada covered the tool, highlighting it as a way to "reinvent" sampling by providing legal, free, and unrestricted access to historical recordings. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-the-monday-edition-1.5564600/library-of-congress-unveils-tool-to-reinvent-reinvigorate-classic-hip-hop-sampling-1.5552328
Joel Whitburn publishes lists of billboard charting hits all the way back to the 1800's. These lists are invaluable for researching copyright status (at the very least, they indicate the existence of a recording of a musical work).
I've just finished researching the copyright status of the songs on these lists for the period 1925 to 1929. Of the 1,082 recordings that are known to exist, 571 appear to be in the public domain in Canada. That's pretty close to 50%. Interestingly, you'd think that the newer the song (i.e., those from 1929), the less chance of it being in the public domain, but the percentage remained pretty constant throughout that period.
I believe that that's because there were multiple songwriting teams working in the 1920s, with a lot fewer 'stragglers'. A lot of the popular music of the day came from Broadway musicals, which these teams worked on.
There are about 780 songs for the period 1920 to 1924 that I have to go through, and if that percentage at least holds (it should, in fact, it should be a bit higher), that would give me an extra 400 songs or so. Overall close to 1000 for the playlist.
Assuming 1 hour of music from these songs, 4 times a day (so around 80 songs a day), that would give 12 days or so before repeating. Not bad, at least to start.
I'll probably expand it into the teens and maybe up into the early 1930's at some point. Although expanding up would probably lead to a point of diminishing returns. I've already done a lot of research of the songs of the teens period - only need to finish a couple more years - and most (except for Irving Berlin songs) are indeed in the public domain. That's countered by the fact that there are a lot fewer recordings.
I think most all of Irving Berlin song are public domain in the IS
One more thing (or several, actually).
For those countries that belong to the Geneva Convention, there's something called The Rule of the Shorter Term.
Basically, that means that if a musical work falls into the public domain in its originating country, it automatically goes into the public domain in those countries that observe the rule (it's voluntary). Canada observes the rule, the U.S. doesn't.
But the CUSMA free trade deal between Canada and the U.S. prevents Canada from observing that rule with U.S. originating songs. If the free trade deal is not renewed, as is being threatened by the U.S., then automatically a whole whack of songs will enter the public domain in Canada. Specifically, everything 1925 and prior, regardless of the life+ Canadian copyright law.
And a whole lot of OTR. Currently, the copyright status of OTR is in a gray area in Canada. It's tied to the rights contained in the script of an audio drama, and quite often that information is just not available. In the U.S., most OTR, particularly the early shows, are generally thought to be in the public domain, either never formally copyrighted, or the copyright not renewed when the opportunity arose before the laws changed in 1976. The status might still be gray, but a whole lot clearer than before.
I'm particularly interested in the statement on the Citizen DJ site, which states that if a film goes into the public domain, then the audio portion of that film also goes into the public domain. Even if it contains copyrighted music.
There had been discussion here a few years ago, with some arguing that OTR variety shows (amongst others) would not be in the public domain because they contain copyrighted songs. If that's not the case for films, then it shouldn't be the case for OTR either.
I'm particularly interested in the statement on the Citizen DJ site, which states that if a film goes into the public domain, then the audio portion of that film also goes into the public domain. Even if it contains copyrighted music.
That's not quite what it says:
"Note that there are many small exceptions to the criteria outlined above. .. Some other points to note:
- For film with an audio track, the audio from that film will have the same copyright status as the film. For example, if the film is in the public domain because it was published 95 years ago or was created by the U.S. Government, the audio from that film is also in the public domain."
Google AI explains it this way:
- Integrated Audio: If a film is in the public domain, the audio track, including dialogue and music blended into that specific print, is generally considered in the public domain.
- Excluded Sound: This rule typically applies to the audio within the film, not necessarily to the underlying musical composition if it was published separately, although the specific recording in the film is usually free.
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough, but I did mean exactly that. I wasn't suggesting that you could extract music from the film and it would be in the public domain.
A while ago, some were suggesting here that OTR, similar to film, would not be in the public domain simply because they might contain copyrighted songs. The OTR as a whole could be in the public domain.
No, I think I just misread what you said originally. But actually it appears that you can extract music performance from any film provided the film itself is in the public domain... Uh..
It actually doesn't quite make sense to me either. Something doesn't make sense about that